Samuel Hagan JR
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*2016 IMPBA Gas Nationals*
- Thread starter ZZ RACING
- Start date
Help Support Intlwaters:
Matt Smith
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- Sep 11, 2011
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- 254
Can someone explain what the advantage is in having a reduced diameter piston?
jeffaustin
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- May 21, 2011
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- 391
Sam you have a PM, not trying to stir up crap just putting record straight.......
Samuel Hagan JR
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- Jul 18, 2010
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Neither am I. I was in the retrieve boat during the inspection process. Just wondering what's going on with that.
ZZ RACING
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- Feb 12, 2008
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Dear IMPBA Members,
Damned if I say something here and damned if I don't, so here goes...
I have talked to both the tech guys over the past couple of days. I misunderstood what they told me at the race. I do remember stating that I didn't want to disqualify an engine if we weren't completely certain. I took my tech inspectors "questionable" ruling to mean there was a shadow of doubt as to whether there was a problem. It was never a question of whether the particular racer would "have his feeling hurt". I must take the blame for missing what they were trying to explain to me about there being a difference in the measurement from the top of the piston to the bottom (a relieved piston modification). I took it as them stating there were wear marks at the top of the piston. (NO EXCUSE..but I was very tired and not as clear headed as I needed to be.)
THE BLAME FOR THIS BAD CALL REST SOLELY ON MY SHOULDERS. The tech guys did their job!!!!!!
THE FIRST PLACE WINNER IN CRACKERBOX, RANDY RAPEDIUS, HAS BEEN NOTIFIED AND DISQUALIFIED DUE TO AN ENGINE MODIFICATION. As we did not tech the other engines I am not awarding a first place in this class. I know this is unusual, but since it's too late to inspect the second place boat I don't see an alternative. I'm gonna lose someone's respect either way I go here.
I REFUSE TO GO SO FAR AS TO ACCUSE A RACER OF PURPOSEFULLY CHEATING ON A PUBLIC FORUM. That is going too far. The Crackerbox rules only changed this season after a trial rule. Let's give a member the benefit of the doubt here that he grabbed an engine from previous years and didn't think about relieved pistons which does not give any advantage, but simply keeps an engine from siezing. It is now however, illegal by today's rules of no modifications.
As far as the multitude of other allegations made on this forum... I requested that I be called to resolve this instead of there being a bunch of here say and allegations thrown around on this platform. AT NO TIME HAVE I RECEIVED THAT CALL FROM ANYONE to discuss this matter in order to resolve it. I let the Crackerbox winner know days ago that there was a problem with my call and we were looking into it. I have no problem listening to facts and addressing an issue, I simply felt this showed poor sportsmanship to call people out publicly. That is NOT "constructive criticism"...did I miss the part where solutions were offered to avoid these bad calls happening again and again? And especially when others jump in claiming to have facts that I am not aware of. It is bad for the hobby. It is difficult to get people to CD events and if they are going to be subject to comments such as "worst officiating at a race I've seen in a long time", I bet even fewer will step up to try. How is this any different from arguing a call or harassing a CD at an event? I don't feel it is. Perhaps we need to expand our already extensive (and outdated in many areas) rule book to include social media arguing as poor sportsmanship as I keep seeing it happen over and over. Civil discussions are one thing. Accusations, name calling and second guessing are another.
On another note. As you know the club race director and president resigned from the club 6 weeks before the race. In retrospect, I should have cancelled it, but I kept the race as scheduled, because I didn't want to disappoint the racers who had enthusiastically signed up. I knew I would have to man the CD tower but not as much as I did. I and others pretty much scratched our boats so you guys could run yours. The club did a great job on getting the site ready. Having a good time running our toy boats was my main concern. Most did have a good time and we got the race done. I apologize to the guys that did not enjoy the race for whatever reason.
I am resigning as the Gas Director.
Since the event is over for this year and I have something lined up for the future, this is a good time for me to step aside.
I have been running the Gas Nationals for the past 7 years and worked very hard to build this event up in order for the growing body of Gas modelers to have a platform for a National event as we were not welcome into the Internats. I had to beg clubs to take this on in the first few years and now I have clubs lined up for 2 years in advance. I do not want my involvement to be the reason the next one is not successful. I simply cannot be at an event and function as 3 individuals: the CD, the Gas Director, and the President. Kind of hard to get different opinions for a final decision if you are all the same person. That let's me know my plate is too full.
I will be happy to assist whoever steps up to take this position get things finalized for next season's event. As it takes all year to work on the next seasons event, I hope to see several volunteers sending their name and qualifications to: [email protected] as soon as possible so the board can approve someone at the upcoming July 14 Annual Board Meeting in Rochester.
Damned if I say something here and damned if I don't, so here goes...
I have talked to both the tech guys over the past couple of days. I misunderstood what they told me at the race. I do remember stating that I didn't want to disqualify an engine if we weren't completely certain. I took my tech inspectors "questionable" ruling to mean there was a shadow of doubt as to whether there was a problem. It was never a question of whether the particular racer would "have his feeling hurt". I must take the blame for missing what they were trying to explain to me about there being a difference in the measurement from the top of the piston to the bottom (a relieved piston modification). I took it as them stating there were wear marks at the top of the piston. (NO EXCUSE..but I was very tired and not as clear headed as I needed to be.)
THE BLAME FOR THIS BAD CALL REST SOLELY ON MY SHOULDERS. The tech guys did their job!!!!!!
THE FIRST PLACE WINNER IN CRACKERBOX, RANDY RAPEDIUS, HAS BEEN NOTIFIED AND DISQUALIFIED DUE TO AN ENGINE MODIFICATION. As we did not tech the other engines I am not awarding a first place in this class. I know this is unusual, but since it's too late to inspect the second place boat I don't see an alternative. I'm gonna lose someone's respect either way I go here.
I REFUSE TO GO SO FAR AS TO ACCUSE A RACER OF PURPOSEFULLY CHEATING ON A PUBLIC FORUM. That is going too far. The Crackerbox rules only changed this season after a trial rule. Let's give a member the benefit of the doubt here that he grabbed an engine from previous years and didn't think about relieved pistons which does not give any advantage, but simply keeps an engine from siezing. It is now however, illegal by today's rules of no modifications.
As far as the multitude of other allegations made on this forum... I requested that I be called to resolve this instead of there being a bunch of here say and allegations thrown around on this platform. AT NO TIME HAVE I RECEIVED THAT CALL FROM ANYONE to discuss this matter in order to resolve it. I let the Crackerbox winner know days ago that there was a problem with my call and we were looking into it. I have no problem listening to facts and addressing an issue, I simply felt this showed poor sportsmanship to call people out publicly. That is NOT "constructive criticism"...did I miss the part where solutions were offered to avoid these bad calls happening again and again? And especially when others jump in claiming to have facts that I am not aware of. It is bad for the hobby. It is difficult to get people to CD events and if they are going to be subject to comments such as "worst officiating at a race I've seen in a long time", I bet even fewer will step up to try. How is this any different from arguing a call or harassing a CD at an event? I don't feel it is. Perhaps we need to expand our already extensive (and outdated in many areas) rule book to include social media arguing as poor sportsmanship as I keep seeing it happen over and over. Civil discussions are one thing. Accusations, name calling and second guessing are another.
On another note. As you know the club race director and president resigned from the club 6 weeks before the race. In retrospect, I should have cancelled it, but I kept the race as scheduled, because I didn't want to disappoint the racers who had enthusiastically signed up. I knew I would have to man the CD tower but not as much as I did. I and others pretty much scratched our boats so you guys could run yours. The club did a great job on getting the site ready. Having a good time running our toy boats was my main concern. Most did have a good time and we got the race done. I apologize to the guys that did not enjoy the race for whatever reason.
I am resigning as the Gas Director.
Since the event is over for this year and I have something lined up for the future, this is a good time for me to step aside.
I have been running the Gas Nationals for the past 7 years and worked very hard to build this event up in order for the growing body of Gas modelers to have a platform for a National event as we were not welcome into the Internats. I had to beg clubs to take this on in the first few years and now I have clubs lined up for 2 years in advance. I do not want my involvement to be the reason the next one is not successful. I simply cannot be at an event and function as 3 individuals: the CD, the Gas Director, and the President. Kind of hard to get different opinions for a final decision if you are all the same person. That let's me know my plate is too full.
I will be happy to assist whoever steps up to take this position get things finalized for next season's event. As it takes all year to work on the next seasons event, I hope to see several volunteers sending their name and qualifications to: [email protected] as soon as possible so the board can approve someone at the upcoming July 14 Annual Board Meeting in Rochester.
Samuel Hagan JR
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- Jul 18, 2010
- Messages
- 4,572
I guess I missed all the drama at the race. I thought it went pretty well considering the swamp and short handed club members to actually help run the race.
I think Juice did a good job CDing the race along with the others CD's. But I didn't race so I have no stone to throw in that fight.
I had a phone call with our district director and we talked about the drama on here. Your going to have bad calls at every race no matter what. Know matter who is the CD.
I think Juice did a good job CDing the race along with the others CD's. But I didn't race so I have no stone to throw in that fight.
I had a phone call with our district director and we talked about the drama on here. Your going to have bad calls at every race no matter what. Know matter who is the CD.
Bill Green
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- Joined
- Dec 31, 2010
- Messages
- 73
Had a blast running my TOY boats with other TOY boats. I guess if we all complain we can run roundy round all by ourselves because no one is going to want to take on the responsibility of being a CD. Great job on everyone who ran the race.
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2005
- Messages
- 1,231
Being a CD at a race is very much a thankless job. The important aspect is to be fair. You do the best with the info that you receive. I have been situations that I put back to the ones that do not agree. If they want to press it, file a protest. This has to be timely. Otherwise, you move on. I respect decisions by the scoring tower. I may disagree, but until you have been in that situation to make the call, respect their call. If you do not have the staff to see all, get them up there. Most will do if you ask. It is disturbing to read most of the comments about this race.
Bruce Jacobs and I have been in very difficult judgement calls in the past. These decisions have impacted who wins and looses. Both of us have seen things (as contestants) that were not right. However, you respect their decisions. Sometimes, if this continues, you may choose not to back.
Bruce just mentioned some of the problems that were mentioned to us during and after the event. He just wanted to express what we heard. Do not chastise him because of this. His opinions of being fair are ones that I respect very much. I am sorry that this race has gotten some negative comments.
Chris, consider this a learning tool and don't throw in the towel.
I had a very good time running my boats and seeing old friends and making new ones.
Again, I want to thank all of you that made this event happen!
Stu
Bruce Jacobs and I have been in very difficult judgement calls in the past. These decisions have impacted who wins and looses. Both of us have seen things (as contestants) that were not right. However, you respect their decisions. Sometimes, if this continues, you may choose not to back.
Bruce just mentioned some of the problems that were mentioned to us during and after the event. He just wanted to express what we heard. Do not chastise him because of this. His opinions of being fair are ones that I respect very much. I am sorry that this race has gotten some negative comments.
Chris, consider this a learning tool and don't throw in the towel.
I had a very good time running my boats and seeing old friends and making new ones.
Again, I want to thank all of you that made this event happen!
Stu
David Swisher
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2011
- Messages
- 223
Well the whole thing has gone to hell in a moment,calls,inspections,allegations on help,I personally did my best while others played in our club the week before the race to prep the site,opened up area to have room for parking and widening the site to work,aranginging a rescue boat(Bam racing-thanks),Don Brown,Dan Weidner,Rick Maston ,Mike Butler,Mike Schindler,put out sawdust in pits several times,hooked up and made sound system work,sand on drivers stand to stop slip and fall accidents from happening,sick as hell,did what I could for anyone that asked for any help,I'm now being threatened to be thrown out of a club for (not doing my part or more like not being liked by some individuals)tried to make the best out of a situation made some good friends and met some good people,hope this race hasn't scared the IMPBA,probably should have been held by a club that actually had more than a handful of members,first place cheater last place winner,wish this would have been handled by a bigger club,ruined the club from holding this event,we where a group but never voted as a group to hold this,the site was very hard to get ready with weather and many playing at district race instead of doing there part of work to help the site,sorry Juice /sorry attendees/anyone that felt they got a bad shake from the Race,peace out and may all future races be a better result to members and there ability to stick it out,personally think it sucks that all the attacks have been directed at certain individuals,all racers and attedees had a chance to voice there opinions if any discrepancy calls where made,clock worked great,without the help of all I don't know how 6members+a couple other helpers are expected to do any better for a 260 boat race,paced fast as hell!
Bill Green
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- Dec 31, 2010
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- 73
Wow, outcomes like this really make a club want to take on an event such as the nats. Pretty soon all we will have will be club races.
I think I will white out the CD on my IMPBA membership card.
I think I will white out the CD on my IMPBA membership card.
SayMikey
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- Feb 23, 2003
- Messages
- 12,552
A drivers meeting every morning and no one said a word. Thinking back I heard need some help on the stand quite often. If you want good calls be part of the solution. This club was small and needed lots of help,I did one job as district 14 director took time off work to only help not race. I never sat foot on the drivers stand to coach so dont have any idea how it went,however I never heard trash talk after each heat just the usual stuff. Given the circumstance I think this race was a great success. my 2cents
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"A drivers meeting every morning and no one said a word."
BINGO!! This statement from Mike is huge folks! I refrained from getting into this until now but everyone needs to pay attention to what Mike said. This is every bit as important as how the calls are getting made in the tower. If you're not happy with what you are experiencing then speak up, this is the first path to fixing issues. Being a CD is a tough job, been doing it for a long time and if I've done something wrong (by the book not by random opinion) then I'd like to hear about it. I get it nobody wants to be the bad guy but if you see something that's wrong have the stones to speak up so it can be addressed if it's a legitimate issue.
BINGO!! This statement from Mike is huge folks! I refrained from getting into this until now but everyone needs to pay attention to what Mike said. This is every bit as important as how the calls are getting made in the tower. If you're not happy with what you are experiencing then speak up, this is the first path to fixing issues. Being a CD is a tough job, been doing it for a long time and if I've done something wrong (by the book not by random opinion) then I'd like to hear about it. I get it nobody wants to be the bad guy but if you see something that's wrong have the stones to speak up so it can be addressed if it's a legitimate issue.
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ButchLaPorte
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- Dec 25, 2010
- Messages
- 136
Juice u do alot for this hobby . dont let the couple people complaining bother u . sure u missed a couple calls it happens . where not raceing for big prices lets have fun guys .juice if it was not for guys like u we would not have a place to run our boats . Cant wait for our next race to have fun with u and enjoy ourself .
Andymicke
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- Oct 11, 2015
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- 194
Well said Doug !!! I hope tp get down to visit your club. Im working on starting my own. Or trying to turn the Oshkosh club into something.Yup - there were some bad calls. Bad calls are part of every sport. There was a significant amount of very good calls compared to a few bad calls. The guy's calling are human. Enough said.
Those of you that were effected by bad calls should concentrate your emotions towards some of the benefactors of the bad calls. Some of these guy's knew they benefited from the bad calls and made no effort to get it right. Making a human mistake is one thing - making no effort to correct a mistake speaks to a character flaw.
Starting to CD our local racing. It is a challenge. Already made my share of mistakes. So far nobody hates me.
Doug
Dan Pralle
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- Aug 21, 2013
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- 694
Lets talk about what good things happened now. Enough drama.
1. Enough room to park everybody including all the campers
2. 84 heats of racing day 1. Very impressive.
3. A great dinner provided by zippkits.
4. A little rain to cool us all off[emoji854]
5. A nice banquet in the air conditioning
6. A group of guys from other clubs sacrificing time and $ to make sure this race happened the best it could.
7. VOODOO for after race meal
8. All of this for us gas boat racers.
9. Racing done and on the road by 4 Satarday
10. I'm sure I missed something.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1. Enough room to park everybody including all the campers
2. 84 heats of racing day 1. Very impressive.
3. A great dinner provided by zippkits.
4. A little rain to cool us all off[emoji854]
5. A nice banquet in the air conditioning
6. A group of guys from other clubs sacrificing time and $ to make sure this race happened the best it could.
7. VOODOO for after race meal
8. All of this for us gas boat racers.
9. Racing done and on the road by 4 Satarday
10. I'm sure I missed something.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kevin back
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- Jul 7, 2012
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- 83
I had a **** good time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Samuel Hagan JR
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- Jul 18, 2010
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I have never seen open offshore before and was very hesitant on how to setup the course but that was my favorite race to watch.
Dan Pralle
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- Aug 21, 2013
- Messages
- 694
I never drove Open offshore and after the first heat that was the most fun driving my boat I have had. Especially chasing down Matt Gunn.
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Samuel Hagan JR
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- Jul 18, 2010
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Nice meeting you and thanks for the cheese.
KarlaThornton
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- Jun 15, 2015
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- 161
11. All the amazing raffle items! I was lucky enough to win something! Thank you Mr. Crawford for creating a great piece of "artwork" propbox! It is beautiful!
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