1991 Winston eagle, legal for scale?

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BlueBlaster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
413
I was curious to know if this Winston Eagle was legal to make. This is when Steve Woomer bought the circus hull and this is when it was testing I want to say tri cities? After reading the scale rules it seems like it would be legal so long as you have photo of the boat. I didn't see specs about scale was only legal if it qualified or raced. If I'm missing something let me know.

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"The Scale Unlimited Hydroplane Master Hull Roster will contain the name and

details that identify each boat that may be built for Scale Unlimited Hydroplane

competition. It will contain the principle dimensions of each boat that is listed, if

known.

Boats must meet the following criteria

to be placed on the Scale Unlimited

Hydroplane Master Hull Roster:

 

 

The full sized boat must have been registered with an unlimited hydroplane

racing association.

 

 

The registered boat must have made at

least one verifiable test run in the

water."

 

If that's the 9210 hull it's definitely legal. If it's the 9031 hull it's not listed.

 

Lohring Miller
 
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Lohring that is not the 9210 it's the 8700. Last time we visited this I know RCU members said it was not legal to run in their club as the test session was not at a sanctioned event. Therefore it never officially ran in that configuration. The 9031 is a completely different hull it was the Circus tri wing. As I stated in a previous thread some time ago you should check with your District of Natl Scale Chairman to see if would be allowed to run.
 
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Circus cowl, Is that the 8710 hull? Although if it was it would be ok to run. Looks like a testing session with a frankenboat. Just throwing it out there as I'm not to familiar with the 89-90 hulls.
 
I knew it wasn't the 9031 hull. Why wouldn't the 8700 version be illegal? It's listed as the U-10 Winston Eagle. Is that the right paint scheme? Aren't there lots of pictures of the boat running on pages 17 and 18 here? The cowl looks very different, though. I'm a lot less familiar than the rest of you on the details of these boats and all the variations.

Lohring Miller.
 
I was curious to know if this Winston Eagle was legal to make. This is when Steve Woomer bought the circus hull and this is when it was testing I want to say tri cities? After reading the scale rules it seems like it would be legal so long as you have photo of the boat. I didn't see specs about scale was only legal if it qualified or raced. If I'm missing something let me know.
Jason,

The pictures you show are early test pictures at Tri-Cities, look in the background, not a buoy in sight, it is the 8700 hull, but just after the purchase of the Circus equipment by Woomer, later (months) it has the typical Woomer/Lucero cowling (Winston,Smokin Joes,Close Call) on it. Funny, the attached pics are almost the same location (background).

So that is why it wouldnt be a legal IMPBA scale hull.
 
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Joe, your first pic looks like it was taken from the vicinity of Stan Sayers Pits/Genesee Park on Lake Washington with Mercer Island in the background. I agree that the second is from the Kennewick side of the Columbia River. The Columbia shots being taken in a similar location makes sense as the pit area and dock is located just upriver from the bridge. Too bad there aren't any other boats shown so we could determine which year the shots were taken, other than between 1991 and 1993.
 
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Am I wrong, I heard this story a long time ago. The hull above with the old circus cowl was running and lost the cowl. Sank. Lucero scrambled around and pieced together the rectangular shaped cowl quickly before a race and that is what they ran for years.
 
Not sure about that story Brian but that is definitely possible. Lohring, this subject came up back in 06 when I was still the NAMBA Scale Chairman and then again a few years ago. I know I actually got in touch with Jim Lucero at one point. I do not remember all of our conversation but I do remember he said that the test session that they ran it with that cowl still on, was not long after they bought it from Bill Bennett. It was not a testing session at a race it was spring practice. So unless it ran in that configuration during a sanctioned event it was not legal as a Scale in NAMBA.
 
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As Joe said it's not legal in IMPBA as it never qualified or raced in that configuration. The clown mouth cowl was only used briefly when they first tested after aquiring the boat. As I was told a while back by a former U-10 member they had issues with running too hot and whent to the more familiar box scoop. :)
 
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Hey Rob,

These cases never close - this specific configuration will surface again soon when someone else comes up with the picture and won't take no as an answer.

Add this one to the U-100 Boat without tail feathers, or the T-4 Bud with any configuration of canard wing. Like bad habits - they will resurface over and over again.

What we need is a bigger shovel, or a perpetual "Ditto". CHEERS!!! Bob
 
Hey Rob,

These cases never close - this specific configuration will surface again soon when someone else comes up with the picture and won't take no as an answer.

Add this one to the U-100 Boat without tail feathers, or the T-4 Bud with any configuration of canard wing. Like bad habits - they will resurface over and over again.

What we need is a bigger shovel, or a perpetual "Ditto". CHEERS!!! Bob
Awww Bob you had to bring those up didn't you?!! :D
You forgot Dumas kits. :lol:
 
In the current rule book there is no mention of the boat having to qualify or race to be legal, therefore the Winston with the Circus cowling should be legal.

Here are the current rules from the IMPBA website.

Scale Unlimited Rules

General

The purpose is to realistically duplicate the Unlimited class of Hydroplanes.

Function of District Chairman

Responsibilities

a. Coordinates registrations for their district.

b. Has the power to appoint a committee to resolve protests.

c. Oversees the operation of scale hydros in the district and assists IMPBA in scale

hydro matters.

d. Keeps point record for district high-point trophy.

When vacancies occur, this position will be appointed by the current District Director and

the National Scale Hydro Chairman.

Registration Procedures

1. All boats must be registered with the District Chairman.

2. The District Chairman will require the following information in writing:

a. Name, address and phone number

b. IMPBA number

c. Unlimited name, year raced, and number

d. Length and beam of prototype boat and model

e. Prototype designer and boat colors

f. Must submit a photo of prototype boat

g. $5.00 annual District registration fee to be submitted upon completion of model & prior

to it competing in an

sanctioned event. Purpose of fees-monies is to cover registration printing c

costs & postage fees. A boat registered in one District may race in any District.

3. Boat must compete at a racing event within one year from registration.

Engine and Boat Specifications

1. All boats to be modeled after Unlimited hydroplanes from past or present.

2. All boats to be built to a scale of 1 1/2" to 1'0" (1/8 scale) plus or minus 10% of the beam

and 5% of the length.

3. Boats will look as scale as possible and meet the following requirements for racing and scale

judging:

a. Cockpit with driver

b. Complete all major lettering and paint schemes

c. Effort must be made to conceal glow engine with fake engine or cowling as per

prototype boats.

d. Minimum 50% of glow engine crankcase (flywheel is not considered part of crankcase)

must be concealed with fake engine or cowling as per prototype boat. April 2012 H - 5 Nitro Special Classes

4. Hull bottom and running hardware will not be judged or checked. However, hull must not deviate

from conventional 3-point hydro (unless prototype was a different design).

a. Hull bottom must be scale appearing.

b. Belly pants are acceptable to clear engine and/or flywheel.

c. Secondary front sponson running surfaces are optional.

d. Air traps are optional.

5. Engine must correspond with IMPBA Class "E".

6. Boat shall use same number of propellers as the prototype.

7. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype's strut and/or drive dog

did so. Photo documentation may be requested for proof by race CD or district scale director.

8. No twin rudder assemblies allowed.

9. Boats should have the ability to change frequency.

Rules for Optional Scale Judging (Concourse)

1. Boat must accumulate 50 points in racing to qualify for scale judging.

2. Judging points to be separate from racing points.

3. All boats are to be judged no closer than 10 feet.

4. A picture must be submitted for the scale judging.

5. Points as follows:

a. 1 to 10 overall scale appearance

b. 1 to 10 for detail, engine, cowl, driver, etc.

c. 1 to 10 for paint job, markings, etc.

d. 1 to 10 for construction

Racing Rules

1. Normal IMPBA driving rules will be followed.

2. Only the registered owner can race his unlimited.

3. All boats shall run 3 qualification heats. There shall be no more than 6 boats in a heat.

4. At the conclusion of the qualification heats, the top 5 boats, based on point total, shall go into

the final.

5. To get the 6th boat for the final, the next 6 boats, based on qualification heat points, shall

compete in a consolation race with the winner going into the final. In the event that the boats

that have a tie are in 5th place, both boats go into the final and the final field of 6 boats is

established.

6. Heat races will be 6 laps in length and will follow standard IMPBA starting procedures. The

last boat running rule may be used, except at the International Regatta.

7. Frequency choice will be made in the point system. If a frequency conflict appears, the boat

with higher points will have preference. If the conflicting boat does not wish to change

frequency, it will be put into the consolation race and all other boats moved up.

8. Main Event and Consolation race points do not count toward the seasonal high point awards. April 2012 H - 6 Nitro Special Classes

9. Seasonal points accumulated in racing will go to registered owner at time of competition.

10. Cutting a buoy on the inside before or during the race shall incur a one-lap penalty. Hitting a

buoy on the outside at any time shall incur a 50-point penalty.

11. Normal heat racing rules can be used as optional racing format however each heat will be limited

to no more than 6 boats raced together at any one time. International Regatta racing will revert to

regular heat racing rules for Scale US-1 with the same 6 boat per heat limit.

12. If any removable parts (cowling(s), wing(s), dummy engine, driver, etc.) fall off

during a heat, except as the result of a collision, that boat will receive no more than

sixth place points for that heat. This penalization does not affect the finishing

placement of the boat, only the points awarded. The points awarded and placements of

the other boats in the heat are not affected by this ruling.

Records

1. Records shall be established in the Scale Unlimited class as listed in the “Records” section of

Rules of Competition.

2. Only boats properly registered will be eligible to establish records.

3. Only the registered owner can attempt to set a record with the registered scale unlimited
 
Only was ever involved building one Dumas Miller for a friend in San Diego. I'm still picking slivers of luan/mahogany ply out of fingers ----- and that was 20+ years ago.

Those hulls will continue being a PIA to Scale Directors for years to come. I got so tired of seeing MHR 7704 U-4 No Name hulls over the years, I could scream. Now, I simply pour another Cuba Libra.

Oh, Boy. Here we go yet again. CHEERS!!! Bob
 
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The only reason I bring it up is what Buddy posted, I read the impba rules and as it reads it would be legal, but I'm not trying to push trying to build it. I bought a scale circus hull and thought It be an interesting thought. This topic really took off, not wanting it to Open any can of worms. It's good to get the history of this boat.
 
It is not legal, the rules are missing parts of a revision passed by membership a number of years back. I just e-mailed the IMPBA secretary inquiring as to why and asked that it be corrected. Here are the updates from back in 2007 I believe when passed-

Section C -

1. All boats to be modeled after Unlimited Hydroplanes from the past or present as listed on the APBA Master Hull Roster. Boat must be modeled after an unlimited hydroplane that qualified and/or raced in a sanctioned event, in undamaged prototype configuration, matching an available boat in use photograph which will be required for documentation.

3d. Minimum 50% of glow engine crankcase (flywheel is not considered part of crankcase) must be concealed with fake engine or cowling as per prototype boat.

7. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype's strut and/or drive dog did so. Photo documentation may be requested for proof by race CD or district scale director.

E. Racing Rules-

11. Normal heat racing rules can be used as optional racing format however each heat will be limited to no more than 6 boats raced together at any one time. International Regatta racing will revert to regular heat racing rules for Scale US-1 with the same 6 boat per heat limit.

B. Registration Procedure -

2g. $5.00 annual District registration fee to be submitted upon completion of model & prior to it competing in any sanctioned event. Purpose of fees-monies is to cover registration printing costs & postage fees. A boat registered in one District may race in any District.
 
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Somebody could start a thread of all the illegal boats and why. That page or two could then be added to the master hull roster.
 
While that sounds like a good idea, Glenn, there are still those that won't want to have boats modeled in a way that was different than most remember seeing it and will call them illegal because of it. I'll use the 7325 Pay'N Pak as an example. I've found several pictures of the Pak shot in 1973. One shows it damaged and sinking at one of the river race sites in the eastern US, clearly sporting an engine covering cowl. I've also found pictures from Miami that season that show the front and sides of the cockpit/vertical fins with the only graphics being three or four small sponsor logos and none of the familiar orange and black striping racing against the 7025 Budweiser. When I said I wanted to build and paint the boat so that I could run it in either early configuration, I've was told both "No problem" and "It's not legal". This brings up the question "Is the boat legal in the early 73 configuration?" Using photo documentation, per the above scale rules, it should be legal with no questions asked. Personal opinion and preferences, however, have made things less clear as to how the rule is supposed to be interpreted. With some believing the boats should be done in their most common configuration, I've been told the boat needs to have the late 73 through 77 striping and no engine cowl to be legal even with photo documentation to the contrary.
 
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