.12 riggers and general stuff

[anthony_marquart]

Well, it's been about a year since I started trying to promote the "A" hydro class. I'm just wondering if it's any more popular. How many of you are running a .12? How many plan to? I'm still having a blast with mine. What are the negatives that you guys see with the class? Are there specific things keeping people from building .12s? I know the drive line hardware can be a drag but I have a pretty good line on all the parts needed. It sounds like we will have just enough boats to run the class at the Masters race. Anyone palnning a surprise addition to the A hydro class?

I have a new boat ready for test this weekend and I have a bunch of ABC props to try along with the Octuras'. I started a new motor last night and for the FIRST TIME EVER the engine fired right up on the first hit. This boat was tougher than the others with a slide carb and SG crank,and I actually have a cowl for it too. I haven't got the cowl mounting all figured out yet. I'll get that and the switch mnt and charging jack in place tonight.

Anyone have a scratch built .12 they would like to show pics of?

 

[Buckshot]

I have a new boat ready for test this weekend and I have a bunch of ABC props to try along with the Octuras'.

When and Where?

-Buck-

 

[Ron Olson]

No telling how the .12's are doing in general. People don't seem to want to let out how many kits they've sold so that doesn't tell anyone how popular or unpopular they are. I'd think the people like Andy would like to know as it may figure into if he goes ahead with the .12 A/A engine or not.

Until people see these boats in action there probably won't be much interest in them. Hopefully the class will be held at the Hydro Masters as that would give them a showcase.

I've seen people that are downsizing the John Finch Wild Thing plans for .12's and .15's as there really aren't a lot of mono hulls made yet specifically made for these engines that would be considered a racing hull.

Look at how many .12 'rigger kits are available right now, your's, Tom's, Andy's and BBY Racing are what I can think of off-hand. Gary Preusse made a prototype that he wanted Dumas to kit but they weren't interested, Mark Sholund is supposed to be working on one that should be really nice if it's anything like his .21 'rigger.

 

[anthony_marquart]

Marks and Andys boats are definitley in a different class than our "build it all kits".

I guess I just need to make sure to get the boat on the water at the Masters. I worry though that someone won't show up and we won't have enough for the class. I have sold a decent number of kits but definitley not enough to warrant Andy setting up for a new engine run. I have learned that about half the people who buy kits actually finish and run them. I don't think it's that it too diffucult, I think it's the time that is involved building or they just loose interest.

It's kind of a shame,.. I think you can't get a better speed / $$ ratio anywhere. I'm going to run a new design at the Masters,.. Maybe if I do well I'll post it for sale too.

No telling how the .12's are doing in general. People don't seem to want to let out how many kits they've sold so that doesn't tell anyone how popular or unpopular they are. I'd think the people like Andy would like to know as it may figure into if he goes ahead with the .12 A/A engine or not.

Until people see these boats in action there probably won't be much interest in them. Hopefully the class will be held at the Hydro Masters as that would give them a showcase.

I've seen people that are downsizing the John Finch Wild Thing plans for .12's and .15's as there really aren't a lot of mono hulls made yet specifically made for these engines that would be considered a racing hull.

Look at how many .12 'rigger kits are available right now, your's, Tom's, Andy's and BBY Racing are what I can think of off-hand. Gary Preusse made a prototype that he wanted Dumas to kit but they weren't interested, Mark Sholund is supposed to be working on one that should be really nice if it's anything like his .21 'rigger.

 

[Chris Wood]

I have learned that about half the people who buy kits actually finish and run them. I don't think it's that it too diffucult, I think it's the time that is involved building or they just loose interest.

You got it anthony, I thought about building one after my US-1 21 hydro.. The main problem i see and have talked to people about is the motor.. alot of people want a water cooled motor.. which can be done.. we can make the head buttons and sell them but the problem is you need 20 plus motors to test your products on before you can sell them..

I understand about people's time.. it is getting harder and harder to work on stuff due to family and other things..

I think if we could get the impba to recogize this class it might go.. I would like PHIL THOMAS to post on this.. He has had alot of luck with getting the sport 20 and sport 40 class's going and is very POPULAR.. How did you get it up and going phil??

let us know.

chris

 

[shoboat]

Fellas,

We are testing a Prototype .12 Hydro in a couple of weeks,just waiting for the new Team Orion

CRF .12 WASP REV to be finished. I can tell you this, that you are still looking at quite a bit of

time and money in a .12 Hydro if you do it right. We have two different designs currently, and

we are going to take one up to Flint,Michigan September 30 & October 1st to see how they run

through the speed traps. We should have quite a fleet in Flint in September & October.

Just Keeping You All Updated,

Mark Sholund

 

[anthony_marquart]

If I understand correctly "A" hydro is a recognised class in the IMPBA. Just that no one ever runs it. Plus with all this talk about too many classes... This is a class that people could actually afford to run if they build the kit. I've made a few water cooled heads for my engines. After running air cooled for a while it's actually kind of a pain to use water,... The pickup, running the lines though the radio box on a rigger,... restricting it etc. With air cooled I just put a piece of radio box tape on the head if it's not getting hot enough... With a cowl though it may be different. Still I have air holes like a car body in my cowl... I think it will be just fine.

I wish I could afford to raffle off a kit at the Masters race...

I have learned that about half the people who buy kits actually finish and run them. I don't think it's that it too diffucult, I think it's the time that is involved building or they just loose interest.

You got it anthony, I thought about building one after my US-1 21 hydro.. The main problem i see and have talked to people about is the motor.. alot of people want a water cooled motor.. which can be done.. we can make the head buttons and sell them but the problem is you need 20 plus motors to test your products on before you can sell them..

I understand about people's time.. it is getting harder and harder to work on stuff due to family and other things..

I think if we could get the impba to recogize this class it might go.. I would like PHIL THOMAS to post on this.. He has had alot of luck with getting the sport 20 and sport 40 class's going and is very POPULAR.. How did you get it up and going phil??

let us know.

chris

 

[Jay Martin Jr]

Marks and Andys boats are definitley in a different class than our "build it all kits".

I guess I just need to make sure to get the boat on the water at the Masters. I worry though that someone won't show up and we won't have enough for the class. I have sold a decent number of kits but definitley not enough to warrant Andy setting up for a new engine run. I have learned that about half the people who buy kits actually finish and run them. I don't think it's that it too diffucult, I think it's the time that is involved building or they just loose interest.

It's kind of a shame,.. I think you can't get a better speed / $$ ratio anywhere. I'm going to run a new design at the Masters,.. Maybe if I do well I'll post it for sale too.

No telling how the .12's are doing in general. People don't seem to want to let out how many kits they've sold so that doesn't tell anyone how popular or unpopular they are. I'd think the people like Andy would like to know as it may figure into if he goes ahead with the .12 A/A engine or not.

Until people see these boats in action there probably won't be much interest in them. Hopefully the class will be held at the Hydro Masters as that would give them a showcase.

I've seen people that are downsizing the John Finch Wild Thing plans for .12's and .15's as there really aren't a lot of mono hulls made yet specifically made for these engines that would be considered a racing hull.

Look at how many .12 'rigger kits are available right now, your's, Tom's, Andy's and BBY Racing are what I can think of off-hand. Gary Preusse made a prototype that he wanted Dumas to kit but they weren't interested, Mark Sholund is supposed to be working on one that should be really nice if it's anything like his .21 'rigger.

I have one I built a few months back, test ran it at the last Baton Rouge race to show the guys. Most of the guys down here in Louisiana are gas guys but there are a few nitro guys such as myself here in the SGRA. I will try to post some photos of the boat tonight.

 

[anthony_marquart]

THat's great news. It sounds like you are really putting a lot into it. You are right about money. You could spend a lot on a .12 rigger too. Especially with a $300 .12 engine. I guess my intention was never really to take mine to that extreme. I started with a design spec of 60MPH for $400 investment. I'm now sure that this can be done. With an inexpensive kit, a good OS engine and low end radio it's not too tough now. Especially with all the great prop work by you and some others.

Now if you buy a stealth.12, drop in a NR and PCM radio,... Yeah,.. you're probably at the same cost as a .21 rigger.

I can't wait to hear about your testing results.

Fellas,

We are testing a Prototype .12 Hydro in a couple of weeks,just waiting for the new Team Orion

CRF .12 WASP REV to be finished. I can tell you this, that you are still looking at quite a bit of

time and money in a .12 Hydro if you do it right. We have two different designs currently, and

we are going to take one up to Flint,Michigan September 30 & October 1st to see how they run

through the speed traps. We should have quite a fleet in Flint in September & October.

Just Keeping You All Updated,

Mark Sholund

 

[Ron Olson]

Chris, I've been using the air-cooled engines in my boats for years and there never was a problem except for them running too cool, even with some of the top fins removed. With an air-cooled head, you don't have ot run plumbing and can use one the the thinner "blade" rudders.

A secondary problem came up as the current .12's carbs need to be a little bigger for us boaters to get the maximum out of them. The ROAR and IFMAR regulated carb bore sizes are smaller than what we need or can use. When Kevin made me up some larger carbs for my .12's, they really woke up!

Tony, you haven't priced top-of-the-line .12's lately have you? I about crapped when I saw an ad for the new Adam Drake .12's, $355.99 to $425.99! He's got a .095 for $159.99!

 

[anthony_marquart]

My new engine has a interchangable restrictor in the carb throat. I took mine out and opened it up to about the same number Keven used in the .12 carbs. If you go with an "outlaw engine" the carb opening is bigger,.. like 6.5mm instead of 5.5. They try to keep the cars on a level palying field so to speak.

I love a good conversation...

Chris, I've been using the air-cooled engines in my boats for years and there never was a problem except for them running too cool, even with some of the top fins removed. With an air-cooled head, you don't have ot run plumbing and can use one the the thinner "blade" rudders.

A secondary problem came up as the current .12's carbs need to be a little bigger for us boaters to get the maximum out of them. The ROAR and IFMAR regulated carb bore sizes are smaller than what we need or can use. When Kevin made me up some larger carbs for my .12's, they really woke up!

 

[Preston_Hall]

It really doesn't matter about engines since none of them work out-of-the-box. They have the timings for a car not a boat so the first thing to be done is engine mods. That is a turn off. Then we get into different heads and carbs. By some opinions, you will have to go purchase both. If not you have to work with a slide carb. That is a turn off. Now try and find a flywheel to bolt on. Even with the cheapest engine a person is going to have to spend some money if they can't do the work themselves.

Another thing against .12's is that too many people want to run .15's and .18's for some reason. They don't realize that those run with .21's.

For those who want to run .12's, go buy a motor, figure out how to get the exhaust timing around 185 degrees, leave 3 cooling fins, don't try and run a SAW prop, don't be afraid to cut the pipe, and don't be worried about running standard hardware.

 

[anthony_marquart]

To me the motors are the best part. You can pick from 20 different engines all with parts available... Plus with a head shim or two to get the timing up, most of these little guys really scream...

[ You got it anthony, I thought about building one after my US-1 21 hydro.. The main problem i see and have talked to people about is the motor.. alot of people want a water cooled motor.. which can be done.. we can make the head buttons and sell them but the problem is you need 20 plus motors to test your products on before you can sell them..

I

 

[longballlumber]

No offense to you Anthony (I am building one of his kits too) but I am having a hard time understanding how anyone can build a hull to a RTR status and do it for $400.00 or less. I have set up a quick spread sheet on what is needed to build a RTR hull (I am sure that I have missed something)...

kit 90

motor 200

flywheel 15

flex collet 10

motor mount 20

fuel (one gallon) 25

fuel tank 10

prop (stock) 10

flex shaft 20

drive dog 2

rudder assembly 40

strut assembly 30

radio gear 100

receiver battery 15

587

Keep in mind this is does not include building materials, support equipment, or maintenance supplies (CA, epoxy, clamps, starter, glow lighter, oils, lubes, plugs, and etc...)

Not trying to be a D*ck, but I don't want someone to get the misconception that simply because your building a .12 size boat its going to be significant cheaper.

All the same components (or price range) of a .21 size boat with the exception of the motor. ($100 hawk kit and $330ish for an OS .21VZ-M)

Mike

 

[Ron Olson]

True Preston, we really need an engine timed for boats but some of the available engines do an OK job of pushing boats. I've tried some that were hot in trucks but were lousy in a boat, not any better than a "sport" engine. The same thing with tuned pipes. The Mac Products pipe is the closest to what we now have for a good pipe but I haven't tried the Salisbury yet.

 

[anthony_marquart]

Well, you have a good point. I went a differnt route. I didn't include fuel or starting equipment.

kit 90

hardware kit from solinger 90

cheap radio 75

prop 15

fuel tank (plastic) 5

brass tube 3

average car engine,.. $150 or so. (not TZ)

$428,.. Pretty close to plan... a little over.. If you go with an OS engine the flywheel is $8, thrust washer$2 and then the collet is $12..

So I guess you are right.. It's hard... Still much cheaper than anything else that will go this fast.

No offense to you Anthony (I am building one of his kits too) but I am having a hard time understanding how anyone can build a hull to a RTR status and do it for $400.00 or less. I have set up a quick spread sheet on what is needed to build a RTR hull (I am sure that I have missed something)...

kit 90

motor 200

flywheel 15

flex collet 10

motor mount 20

fuel (one gallon) 25

fuel tank 10

prop (stock) 10

flex shaft 20

drive dog 2

rudder assembly 40

strut assembly 30

radio gear 100

receiver battery 15

587

Keep in mind this is does not include building materials, support equipment, or maintenance supplies (CA, epoxy, clamps, starter, glow lighter, oils, lubes, plugs, and etc...)

Not trying to be a D*ck, but I don't want someone to get the misconception that simply because your building a .12 size boat its going to be significant cheaper.

All the same components (or price range) of a .21 size boat with the exception of the motor. ($100 hawk kit and $330ish for an OS .21VZ-M)

Mike

 

[nitro_nemesis]

I'd definately go w/ ya to the Race Tony if I could get my blizzard back from Roy - I told him I'd just like to have all my gear back since he didn't really pay me for any of it and did nothing with it, and can't use it now that he's had some issues come up, but that's the only way I could make it on such a short time frame. I don't have the finances right now to buy, build and make sure I've got enough gear. Pisses me off that someone would commit to something like that and Just leave a guy hanging and not get back to him - be hard to trust anyone again after this. But there's always next year I suppose, looking forward to slowly getting back into things, i miss running a lot =) !!!!!

 

[Jay Martin Jr]

Marks and Andys boats are definitley in a different class than our "build it all kits".

I guess I just need to make sure to get the boat on the water at the Masters. I worry though that someone won't show up and we won't have enough for the class. I have sold a decent number of kits but definitley not enough to warrant Andy setting up for a new engine run. I have learned that about half the people who buy kits actually finish and run them. I don't think it's that it too diffucult, I think it's the time that is involved building or they just loose interest.

It's kind of a shame,.. I think you can't get a better speed / $$ ratio anywhere. I'm going to run a new design at the Masters,.. Maybe if I do well I'll post it for sale too.

No telling how the .12's are doing in general. People don't seem to want to let out how many kits they've sold so that doesn't tell anyone how popular or unpopular they are. I'd think the people like Andy would like to know as it may figure into if he goes ahead with the .12 A/A engine or not.

Until people see these boats in action there probably won't be much interest in them. Hopefully the class will be held at the Hydro Masters as that would give them a showcase.

I've seen people that are downsizing the John Finch Wild Thing plans for .12's and .15's as there really aren't a lot of mono hulls made yet specifically made for these engines that would be considered a racing hull.

Look at how many .12 'rigger kits are available right now, your's, Tom's, Andy's and BBY Racing are what I can think of off-hand. Gary Preusse made a prototype that he wanted Dumas to kit but they weren't interested, Mark Sholund is supposed to be working on one that should be really nice if it's anything like his .21 'rigger.

I have one I built a few months back, test ran it at the last Baton Rouge race to show the guys. Most of the guys down here in Louisiana are gas guys but there are a few nitro guys such as myself here in the SGRA. I will try to post some photos of the boat tonight.

Just uploaded pics of my "A" Hydro in my gallery.

 

[anthony_marquart]

[ Wow that's cool. Looks like an Eagle.

Just uploaded pics of my "A" Hydro in my gallery.

 

[Bob Kensill]

I dissagree with the statement that the "car" engines don't have the timing numbers for a boat. I have run Picco,Sirio,Orion,Omega and OS "car" engines with no mods and they are very fast. All my records were set with "car" engines with "bone stock" porting. The Sirio and OS engines offer rotary carbs and I removed about half the cooling fins. My Picco 21 outboard has run within one mph of the record,but on my heat racing boat! I will be running one of the new Wasp Rev engines as an outboard at Flint. This engine is lightyears ahead of all others internally. My Sirio 12 is turning in the high 30k range right now. I also have a 12 rigger in the works.