1/8 Scale Karelson Hydro

[harvknox]

This thread hits the nail on my head also.I'm also building a Miss Bud 68-72.I'd like to learn more about bottom mods to reduce blowovers that Phil asked about.Mike asked me a time ago whether I was going to finish mine as a U-1 or U-12.At the time I hadn't decided,but since there looks to be a few U-1's in the area I'm making mine a U-12.I was at the Sept. Evansville race with a BUD T-5,and this coming spring I hope to be there with the U-12.

I'm close to painting and thought this would be a good thread to ask a paint question.

Roger Newton's 101 set of plans gives the paint colors on the 68-72 Bud.Harry Gatjens gave the same numbers in his thread from 2/12/07.Harry left off a digit(typo) in his thread.They both showed the gold as Dupont Imron 44469.The paint store guy and I could not find a 44469 gold.We looked at designated Budweiser colors and found three golds listed.Only one number was close:44468.Question for all you Bud builders,is this the correct gold color?I'm using Dupont Chromacolor and this stuff as you all know is not cheap!

If anyone has additonal photos it would great if they were posted in this thread since it appears that a number of us are working on Karelson hulls.

I would also appreciate a source for a good full boat photo of the U-12.

Harvey Liberman

 

[Marty Slater]

Thank you hgatjens

Marty

 

[Hurricane]

Here is a link to the photos I have for the 6812 hull Bud hulls. http://ron-hartley.smugmug.com/gallery/3682093#210588431

 

[hgatjens]

This thread hits the nail on my head also.I'm also building a Miss Bud 68-72.I'd like to learn more about bottom mods to reduce blowovers that Phil asked about.Mike asked me a time ago whether I was going to finish mine as a U-1 or U-12.At the time I hadn't decided,but since there looks to be a few U-1's in the area I'm making mine a U-12.I was at the Sept. Evansville race with a BUD T-5,and this coming spring I hope to be there with the U-12.I'm close to painting and thought this would be a good thread to ask a paint question.

Roger Newton's 101 set of plans gives the paint colors on the 68-72 Bud.Harry Gatjens gave the same numbers in his thread from 2/12/07.Harry left off a digit(typo) in his thread.They both showed the gold as Dupont Imron 44469.The paint store guy and I could not find a 44469 gold.We looked at designated Budweiser colors and found three golds listed.Only one number was close:44468.Question for all you Bud builders,is this the correct gold color?I'm using Dupont Chromacolor and this stuff as you all know is not cheap!

If anyone has additonal photos it would great if they were posted in this thread since it appears that a number of us are working on Karelson hulls.

I would also appreciate a source for a good full boat photo of the U-12.

Harvey Liberman

Well, 4469U is the color I always ordered and both Roger and I got it from the crew. I still have one of the old invoices when I bought it. Maybe it was custom and so isn't on any conversion charts. They used the color up until 1987.

Ron Hartley's boat looks right, and is fairly new. You might check with him and see what current paint he was able to use.

Hurricane......?

I have some pictures of the boat from the 1968 and 1969 Bernie books. I will scan them and post them tomorrow.

 

[hgatjens]

This thread hits the nail on my head also.I'm also building a Miss Bud 68-72.I'd like to learn more about bottom mods to reduce blowovers that Phil asked about.Mike asked me a time ago whether I was going to finish mine as a U-1 or U-12.At the time I hadn't decided,but since there looks to be a few U-1's in the area I'm making mine a U-12.I was at the Sept. Evansville race with a BUD T-5,and this coming spring I hope to be there with the U-12.I'm close to painting and thought this would be a good thread to ask a paint question.

Roger Newton's 101 set of plans gives the paint colors on the 68-72 Bud.Harry Gatjens gave the same numbers in his thread from 2/12/07.Harry left off a digit(typo) in his thread.They both showed the gold as Dupont Imron 44469.The paint store guy and I could not find a 44469 gold.We looked at designated Budweiser colors and found three golds listed.Only one number was close:44468.Question for all you Bud builders,is this the correct gold color?I'm using Dupont Chromacolor and this stuff as you all know is not cheap!

If anyone has additonal photos it would great if they were posted in this thread since it appears that a number of us are working on Karelson hulls.

I would also appreciate a source for a good full boat photo of the U-12.

Harvey Liberman

Harvey, I still have a box of goodies I was going to send you. Somehow I erased your address. Please send it to me again.

[email protected]

 

[Dan Kramer]

ron hartley/bud boat, i think that rings a bell. i sold him a fritz /bud boat several years ago. is this the one? the imron paint # for the gold was 4469u .

 

[Hurricane]

ron hartley/bud boat, i think that rings a bell. i sold him a fritz /bud boat several years ago. is this the one? the imron paint # for the gold was 4469u .

That is the boat Harry is talking about. I let another racer take it and get the gold checked and that is the number they came up with for his Bud II. Dan it was a real hand full with the CMB and I sold her to a racer that wanted her alot. He must have loaned her to Zane for the NW Scale event as he is holding the Bud. Ron

 

[SayMikey]

ron hartley/bud boat, i think that rings a bell. i sold him a fritz /bud boat several years ago. is this the one? the imron paint # for the gold was 4469u .

That is the boat Harry is talking about. I let another racer take it and get the gold checked and that is the number they came up with for his Bud II. Dan it was a real hand full with the CMB and I sold her to a racer that wanted her alot. He must have loaned her to Zane for the NW Scale event as he is holding the Bud. Ron

Ron the only round nose Bud i saw at the northwest race was for sale? It never got wet Mike

 

[harvknox]

I went to the paint store again today.I was waited on by a more experienced salesman who quickly

found that 44469 is a valid Dupont number,called "medium gold metalic".However,his computer on a global search did not find that a Dupont 4469 exists.If the salesman here is correct,I'm presuming that when you ask for 4469 the salesman makes the change to 44469.Someone please help out my confused brain,as I don't want to leave this without a conclusion.I'm afraid that other Bud builders reading this thread may also be confused.

I haven't seen any comments relating to bottom changes that Phil asked.There was a Miss Wayne U-50 1/8 scale sold on eBay 10/3/07 which had what I thought was a different bottom design.Is there anything signicant there? There is a link to the eBay listing in the for sale section of IW.

Harvey Liberman

 

[hgatjens]

I went to the paint store again today.I was waited on by a more experienced salesman who quicklyfound that 44469 is a valid Dupont number,called "medium gold metalic".However,his computer on a global search did not find that a Dupont 4469 exists.If the salesman here is correct,I'm presuming that when you ask for 4469 the salesman makes the change to 44469.Someone please help out my confused brain,as I don't want to leave this without a conclusion.I'm afraid that other Bud builders reading this thread may also be confused.

I haven't seen any comments relating to bottom changes that Phil asked.There was a Miss Wayne U-50 1/8 scale sold on eBay 10/3/07 which had what I thought was a different bottom design.Is there anything signicant there? There is a link to the eBay listing in the for sale section of IW.

Harvey Liberman

Thye may have changed their numbeing system and added the extra 4. The last time I bought the paint was in 1989. However, it was called "Medium Gold Metalic" so you are probably on to the right color.

Harry

 

[Dan Kramer]

i went the shop and got the imron book out. imron single stage 44469 med gold metalic. white was 555u. the red was?#, chevrolet truck red. these are all single stage. there was no imron base/clear back then. that boat has a clear imron over it to protect the decals. decals were installed next morning followed by the clear, red and white we both sanded. if you do this without changing to base/clear imron, do not sand the gold as it will streak very severly. the new base /clear imron is VERY EXPENSIVE!!. i have a gallon of the clear that was over $400.00 and it must be baked! the cross over to newer imron red # is 29198x national fleet red . white cross over is 7372x peterbilt white. .trying to cross to non-imron base on the gold may not have the same efffect because of the metalic imrom looks more like a metal-flake .

that boats history fritz hull about 20 years old (or more, a true shelf queen). i built it for a friend in ft wayne, in., he never got it wet. he sold it to another who never got it wet. i acquired it back over 5-6 years ago , never got it wet. sold to ron hartley and from then on its out west with you guys. i hope somebody at least runs it!

where is it now?

pics if you have them would be neat.

dan

 

[harvknox]

Thanks,Harry&Dan for confirmation on the "medium gold metalic" which also matches Roger Newton's 101 Bud plan.For those matching to Dupont colors,the letters following the numbers relate to type,ie Imron or Chroma color and to cost codes.Color is the number only.

Harvey

 

[randoon]

I am running a Karelson hull and agree with Marc that an air dam cuts down on lift by causing turbulence and that means drag with less speed. At the end of my sponsons I have well over an inch depth difference between it and the tunnel. It wanted to blow over without the dam (1/2" aluminum angle) and without being aided by wind. When I started go get some speed out of her, you could see the nose being driven down while accelerating out of the turns. After modifying the ride pads, I dropped the strut and lightened the transom. With the nose pushed down by the prop, I was able to remove the dam and I don't have blowover problems any more. It even handles rough water very well. I have also noticed that roundnoses with fuel tanks up front tend to get real loose after burning off part of the fuel. This can get wild as most Karelsons are faster when they're a little loose anyway. My tanks are on the sides and the radio box in front. CG is within 1/4 inch behind the transom of the sponsons. Good Luck

 

[Hurricane]

Dan, Mike,- I ran the Bud and it was lots of fun but I ended up with another scale so 3 was to many at least for me to have and try to get them qualified and maintain the registrations with my work schedule. So I sold the Bud and now I guess it is going to be raced by Zane who had it at the NW Scale race. The radio box was moved up front and the fuel systen is now saddle tanks and 1/4" cable drive. Sure is nice looking on the water and running at speed.

Mike you are building this hull, Right? How huch are they going run with cowlings and hull and deck joined? Are you going to build any other hulls? Ron

 

[SayMikey]

Dan, Mike,- I ran the Bud and it was lots of fun but I ended up with another scale so 3 was to many at least for me to have and try to get them qualified and maintain the registrations with my work schedule. So I sold the Bud and now I guess it is going to be raced by Zane who had it at the NW Scale race. The radio box was moved up front and the fuel systen is now saddle tanks and 1/4" cable drive. Sure is nice looking on the water and running at speed.
Mike you are building this hull, Right? How huch are they going run with cowlings and hull and deck joined? Are you going to build any other hulls? Ron

Im building a version like the MTO the air traps have changed and the bottom has also changed. This builds the older boats not a Carlson hull. A drop sponson version is in the works but will be awhile...........

 

[Mike Cathey]

I built the 68-69 Bardahl and it runs like a rocket with no hint of blowing over and it doesn't have an air dam. The reason is that the radio box is installed from up through the bottom in front of the engine and gets more weight in the nose to counteract all the air a roundnose boat packs underneath it. It's not just dead weight like lead so the boat is lighter/faster.

 

[P THOMAS]

I built the 68-69 Bardahl and it runs like a rocket with no hint of blowing over and it doesn't have an air dam. The reason is that the radio box is installed from up through the bottom in front of the engine and gets more weight in the nose to counteract all the air a roundnose boat packs underneath it. It's not just dead weight like lead so the boat is lighter/faster.

Mike, Is your boat built from the Newton plan?

That is one thing I am considering to do. I have a acess hatch in the bottom of my boat so that a 4x6 radio box can be mounted to the front top deck. I did this with a gas version of my boat once.

What size fuel tank do you use and where is it placed?

PHIL THOMAS

RC MARINE DESIGN KARLESON ROUNDNOSE

http://rcmarinedesigns.20megsfree.com/scale.htm

 

[68Bud]

I built the 68-69 Bardahl and it runs like a rocket with no hint of blowing over and it doesn't have an air dam. The reason is that the radio box is installed from up through the bottom in front of the engine and gets more weight in the nose to counteract all the air a roundnose boat packs underneath it. It's not just dead weight like lead so the boat is lighter/faster.

Hi Mike,

Could you please post a pic or two of your radio rig in your Bardhal? I am really interested in how you did it. Thanks

 

[Mike Cathey]

I built the 68-69 Bardahl and it runs like a rocket with no hint of blowing over and it doesn't have an air dam. The reason is that the radio box is installed from up through the bottom in front of the engine and gets more weight in the nose to counteract all the air a roundnose boat packs underneath it. It's not just dead weight like lead so the boat is lighter/faster.

Hi Mike,

Could you please post a pic or two of your radio rig in your Bardhal? I am really interested in how you did it. Thanks

I have a real small shop and I took the boat over to my Mom's to store it but I still have the racdio box here and I can send you a photo of it. PM me your email.

Seee my responce to Phil about the details.

 

[Mike Cathey]

I built the 68-69 Bardahl and it runs like a rocket with no hint of blowing over and it doesn't have an air dam. The reason is that the radio box is installed from up through the bottom in front of the engine and gets more weight in the nose to counteract all the air a roundnose boat packs underneath it. It's not just dead weight like lead so the boat is lighter/faster.

Mike, Is your boat built from the Newton plan?

That is one thing I am considering to do. I have a acess hatch in the bottom of my boat so that a 4x6 radio box can be mounted to the front top deck. I did this with a gas version of my boat once.

What size fuel tank do you use and where is it placed?

PHIL THOMAS

RC MARINE DESIGN KARLESON ROUNDNOSE

http://rcmarinedesigns.20megsfree.com/scale.htm

Hi Phil,

Yes, I used Roger's plans as a starting point. Russ Nachweigh had built a Karlsen hull that he sold to Glenn Ono. It still is an amazing handling boat for a roundnose. After Dave's passing, his brother Dave runs the boat now. Anyway Glenn and Russ gave me the dimensions for that boat and I applied them to Roger's drawings. The length, width, tunnel, afterplane and the break in the bottom were all modified (within the rules of course) and the sponsons were identical to those I have on my U-10 York Int'l boats. If you know Russ, I would give him a call. Russ is really smart on what makes for a good boat. If you have all of the overall dimensions he might tell you what the numbers are that will work.I loaned the plans out to someone else to make the Blonde Bombshell.

Probably another reason the boat doesn't want to blow over is that I use a 460/3 prop that keeps the ass end up and air flowing under the boat rather over packing it underneath.

For the radio box I laid out my servos, rec, batt and a 2 oz, sump tank, plus a 1/2" all the way around for a lip and figured how large I needed the box to be and then cut that out of the bottom of the boat. That then became the bottom of the radio box. I then took a piece of 3/16th 6061 alum. and basically made a Square bracket with an inside diameter that was slightly larger than the verticle sides of the box. I screwed the bracket to the inside of the bottom from underneath, built the box and then drilled through the lip around the box and into the alum. and tapped out the aluminum for 6/32 screws. I have a 2 zo. sump tank that is part of the radio box and I have a 16oz. tank that sits between the engine main and the sposon main-also accessed from underneath. After I screw the box up in place I tape over the screws and seams wiith radio box tape. Leakage has never been a problem. PM me your email and I will send you a photo of the radio box. I just took the boat over to my mom's for storage for the winter as I have to have room to build some more boats!!

I've done the same on glass roundnose boats for other people, but instead of aluminum framework ,I have used 1" wide by 1/4" thick maple to overlap the hole in the bottom that is glued and screwed in place and then used 6/32 blind nuts on the backside of the maple to mount the radio box.

Hope that helps. The boat is way faster than a I race it. In UNW we have Classic Roundnose races within some of our races and that's the only time I put it on the water. I run a Picco squarecase with one Andy's big fat 67 pipes,with Speedmaster rudder hardware and a set of Mark Auker's motor mounts. I also use one of Peter Munoz's gigantor turn fins with quite a bit of angle cranked in and that really helped it turn. I don't even have to pedal the throttle before going through the turns now.

I still have plenty of WIB bearings for the MAC 67/84 and CMB 67/80 and the Picco 67 Bluehead squarecase motors if you know anybody that's looking for the good stuff.

Mike