New Futaba 2.4 Ghz System

[Jerry Dunlap]

I bought a 2.4 fasst 3pm system and was told by many people that was a mistake. I am not an expert in any way, but reading thru the directions it gave a max range of 80m (it states 80m near the end of the directions in the specs section). I thought that was a little funny so I called futaba to clarify this with them and they confirmmed this that is only 80m. Thats why I returned the radio. Like i said I am no expert for sure, just stating my story with the radio.

Paul

I know the directions state 80 m range, but I have experienced much further range. I've personally had a 2.4 system at least 200 yards from the tx. That's way past what most would need for running a model boat.

JD

 

[Don Ferrette]

I bought a 2.4 fasst 3pm system and was told by many people that was a mistake. I am not an expert in any way, but reading thru the directions it gave a max range of 80m (it states 80m near the end of the directions in the specs section). I thought that was a little funny so I called futaba to clarify this with them and they confirmmed this that is only 80m. Thats why I returned the radio. Like i said I am no expert for sure, just stating my story with the radio.

Paul

I know the directions state 80 m range, but that is not correct. I've personally had a 2.4 system at least 200 yards from the tx. That's way past what most would need for running a model boat.

JD

So based on this statement people should ignore the comfirmed factory range limit? Are you a factory trained & certified Futaba technician? Will Futaba pay for the damaged or destroyed boat because you said it would be ok even though the specs say otherwise?? No offense JD but that just doesn't cut it. You guys seem to keep ignoring the fact this system is geared towards the CAR guys & there is still the known issue of reflectivity problems on water with the 2.4 systems. When the factory says the reflectivity problem is solved & the range is greatly improved then we got something to talk about. Until then you're playing Russian roulette with a few extra bullets. :blink:

And BTW- the last time I talked to the guys at Futaba Service Center I asked if I could trust an 80+mph hydro to the FASST system. The reply was "not yet" ................. h34r:

 

[ozbryan]

I just got my 3pk fast system and i think its pretty sweet. havent had a chance to test it at the pond yet but i love it already. and ive been assured it will go more than 80m!

 

[Grimracer]

Don

Lets see what we can draw from your questions.. Hope you are doing well.. Its racing SEASION.. O yea…

Na.. I would not ignore it.. but its not PROVEN to be true at all. in ALL OUR TESTING the system went 1/4 mile.. Futaba is however covering there butts with that statement.. lets face it you can not RANGE check this system.. or not as we know it now.. will it do less for other people.. im sure Its not going to be the same for everybody.. its not that way now with am or FM.. if you do a crappy radio install your going to get crappie results.

Nope.. dunny nor myself are factory trained.. test monkeys yes.. factory trained no..

Will Futaba pay for damages.. Aha.. should they? Did they the last time you had a radio out.. or better yet how about the time you chipped your tooth on that corn nut.. did corn nut pay for your tooth... naha.. Its important to us and to you but the BOTTOM LINE.. its TOY BOAT RACING.. not auto seat belts.. Good news is you are MORE THEN WELCOME to keep using FM.. Not shoving this down anybody neck. FM IS VERY GOOD…

Not ignoring anything.. Its an "RC system" and that’s what it was geared at.. planes, cars and boats... not just cars... You know you can use the plane radio in your boat right.. O yea.. no 75mhz vrs 72mhz.. BS..

The reflection issue is one we are not seeing.. not saying its not possible.. its just we are not seeing it

ROCK ON

Grim

 

[Don Ferrette]

Hey Grim

Don't get me wrong bro, I'd love to see all this get worked out & prove to be an excellent system HOWEVER at this time I don't think it's right to issue such blanket statements as "I know the directions state 80 m range, but that is not correct" or "Futaba states the range at 70M.. or about 250" best case.. got news for ya.. Its WAY better then that" & lead people to think there are no issues. Rather than going blindly on statements like these I asked the tech guys & you read the response I got, this system is getting there but not where we need it to be yet, at least not for the boats. I'm sure in time the issue will be resolved & there actually is a US MANUFACTURER that claims to have solved the range & signal reflection problems, they debuted their new stuff @ Toledo. I'm looking hard at that system myself but have been a loyal Futaba user for many years & would like to continue on that path. If Futaba comes along and says they've solved the range & reflectivity "issues" then rest assured one may find it's way into my stable. The other question about this system that I can't get a solid answer on is redundant RX's that I run in my twins & if two 2.4 RX's can function in harmony in one boat. So far I've only gotten "Ummm ... we're not sure on that one". :unsure:

A manufacturers written specs carry far more weight than a "leap of faith" especially when we're talking about 80-90mph water missiles. h34r:

ROCK ON!!

 

[Grimracer]

Don,

I guess you have to work in the industry to understand..

Its a leap of faith.. for me its 2.4.. for you it might not be…

Not trying to sound smart but do you know how the MFGs range test in Japan and China and Twain?... You dont... I have been there...I do... Let me state that they take OUR testing in the US very serious. Heck.. so do we.. Radio testing is not my favorite thing to do around here.. its BORRING with a capital B… running around the Midwest testing radios is UGLY… Do you have any idea what its like doing radio testing in the middle of winter at a cold IL lake or field with the wind blowing 35MPH.. lets just say SUMMERS ROCK.

Its FM for you then.. and again we are VERY cool with that.. I like FM too..

ROCK ON MAN

Grim

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

I bought a 2.4 fasst 3pm system and was told by many people that was a mistake. I am not an expert in any way, but reading thru the directions it gave a max range of 80m (it states 80m near the end of the directions in the specs section). I thought that was a little funny so I called futaba to clarify this with them and they confirmmed this that is only 80m. Thats why I returned the radio. Like i said I am no expert for sure, just stating my story with the radio.

Paul

I know the directions state 80 m range, but I have experienced much further range. I've personally had a 2.4 system at least 200 yards from the tx. That's way past what most would need for running a model boat.

JD

I have edited my post regarding what the directions state about the 2.4 system's range. I should not have said the 80 m range "is not correct." My experience has proven it to be more than twice that.

JD

 

[Dale0]

Futaba is coming out with a stick radio specifically for cars and BOATS. With the FASST system built in. So i guess Futaba is confident about the system now.

 

[porscheaddiction]

I'm sure in time the issue will be resolved & there actually is a US MANUFACTURER that claims to have solved the range & signal reflection problems, they debuted their new stuff @ Toledo. I'm looking hard at that system myself but have been a loyal Futaba user for many years & would like to continue on that path.

I think I know what MFG your talking about they have tested their system once in a gas boat and did not realize any problems during that test. They were using a module system with a pk3(If I remember right). He did not claim to have solved the reflection problems only that the system did not incur any noticeable glitches during that single test. Very exciting just the same tho .

It will be a technical achievement when the reflection/absorbtion characteristics at 2.4ghz is minimized for use in boats.

Chris

 

[Grimracer]

I just spent some time talking with our EE here in our department and he stated that FM has the same reflection issue and this is not just a 2.4 thing.. As a matter of fact he stated that he has seen this with some of the FM stuff we have tested in the past.. so far we have not seen it in testing the Futaba Fasst..

He also stated that its still RF.. no matter how you look at it.. so I suspect we are going to see it in some way anyway..

He then went on to ask.. what would you rather face.. The possibility of somebody turning on, on your channel.. this can and DOES happen, human error, or the possible reflection issue that seems to be present in our current FM and 2.4 systems. Not human error.. Understand neither are good..

What do we want from 2.4 or better yet expect?

A perfect operating system with no chance of ever having a failure of any kind?.. Wishful thinking in the real world.

A solid system that proves its self 99% of the time.. High expectations but not imposable.. lets face it anything less the 100% is just not perfect.. So we might have to, like we do now, have to put up with little issues with even new technology.

Is FM perfect?.. is 2.4? does it need to be? Can we make it so? Do we try?... at least the last one I can answer. Yup.. we do try..

Keep the faith.

Grim

 

[rcpilotbill]

I will add my 2 cents in here....

To tell you the truth, I didn't even look for a range test when I put my FASST system in my boats. I have so many people running them in the cars and trucks (on and off road) without a single quiver or shake or shimmy that I moved immediately to it with my 3PK.

I had a radio issue (FM 75MHZ) at the CMB race and changed immediately over to FASST as soon as I got home. I have now been to the pond on our 1/4 mile course several times and also down to the Spring Shootout in Jackson TN on their 1/3 mile course..... NO SHAKES, NO GLITCHES, NO NERVOUS servos, nothing but absolute and complete control and confidence in my FASST system.

Correct me GRIM if I am wrong, but the Futaba FASST system does not select a single channel as a phone or the spectrum system does on the 2.4GHZ band.... I have been told that the FASST system actually shuffles between the channels to help ensure that it maintains a strong signal.

I have talked with Futaba regarding the R603FF and R603FS receivers..... the 3PM comes with the less expensive R603FF receiver that only has a single antenna, the 3PK comes with the more expensive R603FS receiver that has dual antennas. I personally am only running the dual antenna R603FS receivers in my boats and put the less expensive R603FF receivers in my cars for indoor racing....

I am not trying to tell anyone to ignore any mfg range claims, but as stated by Grim.... the mfg WILL reduce the quoted range to ensure they cover their hineys..... When I was in mfg, we used to reduce our KNOWN capabilities by 25% or more just to ensure that we covered ourselves.....

In the end, I and others are stating OUR direct experience on the pond with our boats. I for one am VERY comfortable recommending to my customers (as a hobby shop owner) the use of the Futaba FASST system and the dual antenna R603FS receivers in their boats......

I would NOT make that same recommendation for the SPEKTRUM systems as I have witnessed too many issues with our indoor racing program to feel confident in making that recommendation for longer distance outdoor (on the pond) racing.

Bill Van Kirk

His and Hers Hobbies

 

[Grimracer]

Bill your right.. no need to correct..

The Fasst system shifts every 2 milliseconds looking for a new unused signal. It does not stick with any one signal when it finds an open one. Its always looking for open signals..

We have also tested our system besides the Spek and it does not interfere with it.

I was lucky enough to win the largest tunnel boat race ever held with a Futaba FASST and im looking forward to "hopefully" capture a few more with my FUTABA FASST system.

O yea I have them in my 3PK and my 3CVS.. GO TWO STICKERS

Grim

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well all this is great but personally I'd love to here from someone with a strong background in this technology who does not work for, get sponsored by or in any other way sell these systems. No offense to you Grim or Dunny or Bill, but your jobs are to represent & sell the "new stuff". I have talked to people who make a living tuning and repairing these radios we use & their response does not give me the "warm fuzzies" yet. I'm not in any way against the technology, I think it's going to be a good thing ...... eventually. h34r:

 

[Grimracer]

Your right Don.. Looks funny doesn’t it... Not my intent..

Let me say this however.. let the performance and wins speak for themselves..

Also.. It has to start some place. If we do not jump in as operators of this equipment the ball will be slow rolling.. I feel the benefits are WAY TO HUGE to ignore.. also, I feel...IT IS SAFER BOATING.. well at least I feel that way at the flying field.. having your heli get smacked down because some body turned on.. just a simple sorry is hard to swallow.. know what I mean buddy…

ROCK ON DON DON..

Grim

 

[rcpilotbill]

I guess this is one of those cases were practical hands on experience is somehow "less"

I do agree with you on one point though..... a person should stay with what they are comfortable with and what has worked for them in the past.... until they are convinced and comfortable with what they are seeking to change to.

However, I have to ask this one question......where would we be in the world and in technology if we all sat back, waited and did not try anything new because we have always done it this other way......

The question presented was, has anyone tried it yet (the 2.4ghz system) and those with practical, hands on experience have answered up with our actual hands on experience with the system..... not a debate on whether it should theoretically kind of sort of but I heard somewhere that it might or might not work......

I am not disregarding your points and opinions, nor am I attempting to reduce their validity in anyway, but the question was "has anyone used it, what are your opinions"?

By the way, my job as a hobby shop owner is NOT to represent and sell the new stuff.... it is to ensure that my customers get what they want AND what will work the best for them. How long would I be in business if I simply said hey guys this is the new stuff so you better get it and use it regardless of the actual quality of the items. NOT LONG.

Considering the fact that I am an avid RC flyer with more than a dozen flight ready planes and a couple helicopters, an avid RC car and truck driver and racer with a half dozen cars that I drive and race weekly and now my new adventure in to the RC boat racing with 4 race proven boats, I think I qualify as a hobbyist..... not just a smiling sales rep trying to part customers from their hard earned money.

People come to my shop and spend becuase they know that I am a AVID RC hobbyist first, sales person second.

Bill

 

[Don Ferrette]

Bill, you're kinda missing the point here. This has nothing to do with sitting back & waiting and everything to do with being sensible about WHAT THE MANUFACTURER SAYS! It's great to share experiences that we all have BUT when that "practical hands on experience" flies in the face of what the manufacturer is saying and/or willing to stand behind that's a different story. I'll say it again, I like the idea of this technology, that's why I called and asked the best possible resource, THE GUYS WHO SERVICE & TUNE THEM. Straight up, no hype, no bullsxxt, no sales pitch. The response was as far as the boats go, or at least in the hi speed applications I asked about they'd like to see them get a little better first. So up to now we have 3 guys who run 40mph tunnel boats saying they're the greatest thing since sliced bread and there's nothing to worry about. Let me ask it this way, is there anyone out there who's had the balls to put one in an 80+mph hydro? :blink:

And Bill I do admire your business "ethics" as far as your customers go, we certainly can use more like you, but you & I both know if you don't carry the lastest & greatest, all the hot new stuff that people get hyped on you'd be history in no time.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Don I'm going to put it to the test soon enough. It may not be in an 80+ hydro but it will be in my 20 hydro. As you know I have no affiliation with anyone but my family & IMPBA.

 

[topfuel443]

So up to now we have 3 guys who run 40mph tunnel boats saying they're the greatest thing since sliced bread and there's nothing to worry about. Let me ask it this way, is there anyone out there who's had the balls to put one in an 80+mph hydro? :blink:

Hey Don, we could always resort back to the tether days, those steel cables attached to poles are a pretty sure fire way to gaurantee no wild boats...

And those are 50 MPH tunnels dammit! (no wait, maybe they are only 40 in your district...)

~James "Ive seen a fair number of Twins go "wild" with FM radios too" Clegg

 

[Russ Nachtweih]

I will be running my .21 and .45 Roadrunners tomorrow. I hope it works!

Russ

 

[Grimracer]

Don.. the system has been used in my Scale boat, my 20 hydro, my 40 MPH tunnels and my sport boats.. my helis my planes. in front or people at racers and the field and here in my driveway.. with many on the water, many in the air, and bouncing my micro heli off the house next to mine.. indoors, out doors..

Did i tell you before that I did not like testing this stuff.. Boring with a capital B?

40 mph TUNNEL.. Don... its 2007 my man.. Tunnels have FAR pasted that mark about 8 years ago.. Besides.. that is the goofiest thing you have said on the post.. what does speed have to do with it.. Like the signal can not keep up? ....jyea..ha...

KIDDING.. i know what ya mean...

got new for ya.. 30 or 80 or 150 its all ugly when they hit..

ROCK ON

Grim