FE Class Suggestions for IMPBA Trial Period.

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

I would really like to hear everyones opinion on a class structure for a 1 year trial proposal to IMPBA. What I'm looking for is a voltage breakdown per class. Keep in mind we want to "mirror" nitro rules for competition and boat size. I think we're looking at 4 class breaks plus specialty classes as follows;

A = 7.4V (nitro 2.0cc)

B = up to 14.8V (nitro 3.5cc)

C = up to 22.2V (nitro 7.5cc)

Open = up to 37V (nitro 30.0cc and gas)

Classes per voltage are mono, hydro, sport hydro, offshore. Specialty classes, LSH, LSM, OPC and 1/8th scale.

The above is my opinion on how it should be broke down, your thoughts?

Thanks Guys, please keep this ON TOPIC.

Paul.

 

[Grimracer]

Paul,

If we are going to keep the letter degisnation how about this..

FE-A

FE-B

FE-C

FE-OPEN

Im not a huge fan of the letters anyway (new people are like "what the heck")..

Just a thought

Grim

 

[sjslhill]

All of these open motor classes? IMPBA has no LSH, LSM, OPC, what are the motor rules? Is LSH and LSM sprint or 4 min or what exactly?

Hi Guys,
I would really like to hear everyones opinion on a class structure for a 1 year trial proposal to IMPBA. What I'm looking for is a voltage breakdown per class. Keep in mind we want to "mirror" nitro rules for competition and boat size. I think we're looking at 4 class breaks plus specialty classes as follows;

A = 7.4V (nitro 2.0cc)

B = up to 14.8V (nitro 3.5cc)

C = up to 22.2V (nitro 7.5cc)

Open = up to 37V (nitro 30.0cc and gas)

Classes per voltage are mono, hydro, sport hydro, offshore. Specialty classes, LSH, LSM, OPC and 1/8th scale.

The above is my opinion on how it should be broke down, your thoughts?

Thanks Guys, please keep this ON TOPIC.

Paul.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

If we are going to keep the letter degisnation how about this..

Mike, I'm all in favor of something other than letters. All I did was try and make a simple concept for debate. Could switch it to FE1, FE2, FE3, FEOpen?

All of these open motor classes? IMPBA has no LSH, LSM, OPC, what are the motor rules? Is LSH and LSM sprint or 4 min or what exactly?

LSH and LSM would be 700bb classes. Hull size is??? Batteries 12 cells or 3S lipo??? Both LSH and LSM run 1 mile (6 laps on a nitro oval) OPC follows class B power.

Paul.

 

[photohoward1]

Alan and I were thinking along those same lines.....One issue though....Is your intention to race with the Fuel Guys? If so we need to regulate power....Voltage won't do it...I am not for MAH limits either and we can't tech Motors....Too many types winds and sizes... The way to do it IMO is to spec hull sizes....We can only put so much power to hull sizes....If we don't do it we will be racing very large boats with high ampdraw and it won't be fair to or fule breathren.

Size of the boat limits power...... Just a thought to make it fair.... Keep it up big guy....

 

[sjslhill]

I think the IMPBA should go this way, it's more simple and more straight forward. Maybe someday I'll get into LiPoly racing, for now I am going to CMBC and race the old fashion way though. I have all the equipment and NIMH costs much less in lower end classes.

goodluck Paul, you have some good ideas.

thanks,

Steve

 

[lohring]

At this point I think electric boats that use the latest technology will be faster than nitro under the proposed rules. We do run electric and nitro together at a few local races in our district and electric is faster, even running under nitro rules. I believe the solution is the same as gas in NAMBA, run electric, gas, and nitro in separate classes at the same race. Perhaps there can be a few combined classes, like Offshore, or Open Multi Engine, but mostly the power plants should be separated. This gives everyone a chance to compare power plants, watch the racing, and even try new types of power at the same event. There aren't so many model boat racers that we can afford to isolate any one group.

Lohrng Miller

 

[user 115]

Paul,

Is it possible to break the classes out by watts? I have no idea how you would tech that.. My concern is that even though on paper a P class may be equal to 3.5, it's not. With lipo's and brushless what would a P boat put out? We are probably pushing somewhere around 2+ horsepower in 3.5 cc or 1500-2000+ or - in watts. I raced 3 or 4 P hydro's with my 3.5 rigger on a super small electric course. Only Brian Bauss' lipo powered monster was able to beat me and it wasn't so much faster, just quicker to the line.

How much will running on a full size nitro course and running the mill take away from your available power? I think at this point seperate classes is the answer until you guys can figure out just how much power you have from the latest batteries and motors.

Dont' know if I'm offering any constructive ideas, just some observations and questions I had from actually racing both against electric boats with my nitro and racing in LSH this summer.

Charley

 

[Pagemaster]

Paul I agree with Howard. The problem is that electric is continually making gains in performance, but nitro is not getting faster at the same rate. Maybe run the same hull sizes as the nitro guys are running now in those classes. That way the race looks more scale in appearance.

Steven

 

[Grimracer]

Im not sure Paul is saying this but in no way should Nitro and FE run together EXCEPT In open..

In 10 years Nitro would be forced to the side and the FE stuff goes in to hyper space in power and speed.

ROCK ON

grim

 

[brooks93]

Im not sure Paul is saying this but in no way should Nitro and FE run together EXCEPT In open..
In 10 years Nitro would be forced to the side and the FE stuff goes in to hyper space in power and speed.

ROCK ON

grim

Grim I think you are correct. I think he put the IC size so the nitro guys would have an idea of what size boat we would run.

 

[Ronald van Essen]

Although I think Paul has a good idea on breaking up the FE class, but then I agree with Grim-Mike Z, the FE guys/girls are still running in a seperate heat, NOT together with the nitro people.

But its a trial, so why not give it a try for seperate heats for FE only, compare time etc for the course and see if its comparable. Later you can decide on some open class for FE against nitro in the same heat.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

These are proposals for electric only classes, not meant to be mixed/raced together with nitro boats at the same time. This would be a new set of rules to govern FE racing. I think if you guys take a look at this first post I made you'll better understand.

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=18499

I took for granted most saw the original concept, sorry about that.

Grim I think you are correct. I think he put the IC size so the nitro guys would have an idea of what size boat we would run.

That's exactly right. We would use the nitro rules and sizes as guidlines for FE racing. We would change things like pit time. For example, 1 minute of pit time with no boats launched after 30 seconds. That's right, it means you would have to full course mill for at least 30 seconds and no pulling into the infield after the finish.

Paul.

 

[Grimracer]

Just wanted to claify for all..

Thanks man

Grim

 

[TomMoorehouse]

dumb questions from an outsider....

would it not be a,b, and "D" as D is 7.5cc?

And how is the voltage determined? Is it manufactures rating or do you use a meter? wouldn't a good battery be outting out more than rated???

 

[brooks93]

dumb questions from an outsider....
would it not be a,b, and "D" as D is 7.5cc?

And how is the voltage determined? Is it manufactures rating or do you use a meter? wouldn't a good battery be outting out more than rated???

I think the letters Paul used where just an example.

lipos are 3.7 when sitting or 4.2 fully charged. a high end lipo will be the same voltages as a low end cell. You can check it by putting a meter across the leads of the pack. Its would take 2 secs to check.

the only class that would put FE, Nitro and gas together would be open class's. all others would be FE only.

Grim maybe there should be a class for stock manufactures boats to race in providing they are original equip from the manufacture and not modified so all the box art boats out there could just be pulled from the box and raced.

 

[Andy Greene]

Hi Guys,


That's exactly right. We would use the nitro rules and sizes as guidlines for FE racing. We would change things like pit time. For example, 1 minute of pit time with no boats launched after 30 seconds. That's right, it means you would have to full course mill for at least 30 seconds and no pulling into the infield after the finish.

Paul.

I really like the way your going with this so far Paul, esp this portion.

 

[brooks93]

Hi Guys,


That's exactly right. We would use the nitro rules and sizes as guidlines for FE racing. We would change things like pit time. For example, 1 minute of pit time with no boats launched after 30 seconds. That's right, it means you would have to full course mill for at least 30 seconds and no pulling into the infield after the finish.

Paul.

I really like the way your going with this so far Paul, esp this portion.

with the addition of lipo's there is no reason why they can't do a full course mill and a finish lap. 8 laps total. Paul and I have been doing it for 3 years without any problems and I think it makes the starts easier then a 9 start

 

[Don Ferrette]

That's right, it means you would have to full course mill for at least 30 seconds and no pulling into the infield after the finish.

Ok so does "pulling into the infield after the finish" mean the boats can't make it back or are you waiting for a minimal "battery recovery" to be able to get back to shore? If you have to go out every heat with a retrieve boat that must kill alot of time...... :blink:

 

[TRUCKPULL]

Don

In FE racing, boats pull into the infield after they cross the finish line, to get out of the way of other

boat that are still racing.

After the race is finished they drive back to shore.

Seeing that an FE boat can come to a full stop- rest there - then start up again, NO retrievel boat needed.

Also starts can be made from a full rest in the water.

No throwing of running boats ( a lot safer )

Larry