State of Affairs for RC Boat Racing

[Tom Foley]

WAY WAY to many classes.. cars can do it because it don't take as long to run a heat.. from start to finish. just faster.

access.. i have been driving 2 - 3 hrs one way to test for 20 yrs.. it sucks.. i have no local place to test.. people don't want you around for the most part.. again.. cars can run anywhere.

hobby shops.. they sell cars... planes.. quads... ect.. boats? not really.. why?? again, where do you go and run.. the river? lol.

cost.. ehh ok.. yes and know.. cost is cost no matter what hobby you are in.. either video games.. cars ( real cars ) or r/c stuff.. to me that is relative.. you spend what it is going to cost.. you either do it or not.. pretty simple.

lets face it. this is and always will be the smallest rc hobby there is.. but the KEY issue above all is young people.. you look at this hobby over the yrs.. i count on one hand the amount of NEW PEOPLE i ever see at races.. same people.. same races ect. not that it is bad but it is hard for a sport to grow when new people are far and few between

Social Media can help our sport grow.. With all the videos and pictures we are putting out there these days it will draw attention from new people who have never had a boat and also re kindle the fire in old racers who have got out of the hobby or put there boats in storage. All of us are gear heads here and we all have friends who are like us, show them your boats let them drive one help make our hobby better!!!

You are spot on . Younger people are all over social media and that is the way to reach them .

 

[Grimracer]

To have good racer support first you need good local support. to do this might require a RTR class or some easy to get in to class, Drive, money, fun factor.. whatever.

Part of this local support is having some type of local support, club, general meeting place, pond, store.. whatever

Some, most, don't take the time to foster new growth and just want it to happen.. We no longer have a local purchase channel like we use to many MANY years ago. We have to SEEK OUT.. boats, motors and what not.. I have always hated the know or B@#$ somebody to get the good stuff. (one of the reasons Power Surge Racing Products has an one line store)

Just think of it,, in this day and age you can ONLY order one of the engine brands mentioned above on line.. what.........

To me.. cost is likely not the largest factor.. Rocketry is VERY strong and do any of you have an idea how much that costs.. I do..

It starts with local club level support and grows from this.

Grim

 

[Grimracer]

BTY.. I to feel we have to many classes. Watered down.

Grim

 

[julianconde]

The organizations have nothing to do with the state of model boating. The economy is to blame along with the higher cost of model boating now in days. Boats more expensive, engines a more expensive, nitro is more expensive, props are more expensive. The cost of model boating is going higher and higher.

You can easily put $600-4,500 dollars or more on a model boat. From a tunnel to twins.

Then you had to put in the factor where the race is located how much does it cost to enter, how much does it cost and fuel to get there how long the races and how much you got to pay for hotel, food and all the other expenses that come in between you looking at over $1000 easy expenses just to go and race model boat.

Now you have to pick and choose the races you want to attend and money is a big factor.

I agree with Sam social media is one way of getting more people exited and maybe get into the hobby.

I had a guy that came to the pond at the Orlando club just to watch us run our boats and he was curious of the price of one of them it was my twin 45 I told him if you wants to build everything brand-new like I did you're looking at almost $3k then you have to break engines in before you can really go fast. He almost had a heart attack.

As far as too many classes ????

There's a lot of model boaters out there with boats many many boats the biggest problem is money $$$$.

Julian

 

[Doug Smock]

I to have watched the board create these classes that are taking up space.

What classes did the BOD "create" Mark?

 

[Kevin Sheren]

I to have watched the board create these classes that are taking up space.

What classes did the BOD "create" Mark?

I have to ask the same question. What classes did the BOD "create" Mark.

Every class that has been added was done by a PROPOSAL WRITTEN UP BY AN IMPBA MEMBER IN GOOD STANDING!

Kevin

 

[bzubee]

The main problem for growing model boating is the work involved to accomplish model boating ! Today most younger people hangout on computers and play games on the computers with people from all over the world much easier for them than actually working on a model boat making a trip to a lake site and working all day to get a model boat to run well and then going home and starting it all over again. Today most people are used to everything being a throw away item and not actually repairing anything.

 

[Mark Bullard]

Well looks like I have hit a nerve. Very Simple Gas Scale Unlimited! Where are the boats that was said that if we have the class they will build the boats. I thinks that I have only seen maybe one of them and it was not finished.

The way boat classes are made is racers in a District create a class and start to race it in there district. Maybe other Districts will follow next to those Districts and more boat are built. When you have a lot of boats in this new class running then you propose the class with all that is needed with the help for all the Districts that are running them. You do not create a class that only has a very small few members wanting a class of that type. This is what the board has done.

 

[Doug Smock]

No nerves involved here Mark,lol

So Gas Scale is responsible for your woes?

Mark the FACT is membership voted on the class AFTER a one year trial because THAT'S HOW IT"S DONE in the IMPBA. The BOD doesn't create classes. I imagine if the BOD hadn't sent the proposal to the membership for a vote we'd been accused of meddling? All we have to go by is history. lol

With all due respect,you're always quick to try to shove your foot up the BODs azz so here is a challenge for you.

Write up a proposal that reduces to the NITRO classes to a level that will make you feel all warm and fuzzy. (leave the omitted classes alone for records for the time being) Ask the BOD to send your proposal out for a one year trial to see what shakes out.

This comes up here every year it seems, there is no need in hashing this out again and making no attempt to "fix"it. Who better to do this than a man that has 30+ years experience and knows the history?

FWIW There are fewer gas classes than either nitro or FE.

Good luck!

See ya at the pond!

 

[Tony Jacuzzi]

1975 - (7) US-1 Classes @ Indy, 2007 - (14) US-1 classes @ Seville

 

[Samuel Hagan JR]

No nerves involved here Mark,lol

So Gas Scale is responsible for your woes?

Mark the FACT is membership voted on the class AFTER a one year trial because THAT'S HOW IT"S DONE in the IMPBA. The BOD doesn't create classes. I imagine if the BOD hadn't sent the proposal to the membership for a vote we'd been accused of meddling? All we have to go by is history. lol

With all due respect,you're always quick to try to shove your foot up the BODs azz so here is a challenge for you.

Write up a proposal that reduces to the NITRO classes to a level that will make you feel all warm and fuzzy. (leave the omitted classes alone for records for the time being) Ask the BOD to send your proposal out for a one year trial to see what shakes out.

This comes up here every year it seems, there is no need in hashing this out again and making no attempt to "fix"it. Who better to do this than a man that has 30+ years experience and knows the history?

FWIW There are fewer gas classes than either nitro or FE.

Good luck!

See ya at the pond!

That pretty much sums it up.

 

[Andy Greene]

To me.. cost is likely not the largest factor.. Rocketry is VERY strong and do any of you have an idea how much that costs.. I do..

It starts with local club level support and grows from this.

Grim

lMAO - Yeep , and Im not even flying BIG stuff yet

I walked away from boating for several reasons- mostly the bed I made on my own - there I said it, now the haters cant hate, or at least talk the chit that helped drive me out

But for many of the other reasons mentioned also- cost being the largest. I just cant afford to play right now - that will change and my stuff will sit till it does-

I tell myself, it was fast when you put it away- it will be fast when you pull it back out. And the day WILL come that it comes back out.

Politics- if you want to call it that - was a major reason - but honestly $$$ is what keeps me away right now.At this point in my life, 50+ Do I miss it - **** right I do .

But I fill the need for my hobbys and fun in places I can afford at the moment- period.

I got into Rocketry with my daughter several years back to have something to do with my family- she was too young to run boats and well yeah, I liked it too

I have also found after 6 or 7 years of playing with my other hobby- $$ is where you want to draw the line- How much is enough- . I could EASILY jump off on an L-1/ OR L-2 High Power project that would rival the cost of a **** fine 90 rigger - and cost at least - if not more- to operate on a heat to heat / flight by flight basis . I guess it boils down to how deep you want to get and how serious you take it.

IMHO - One day events - Club Fun runs - Open Club Days and the such are the way to draw interest. Fun times doing what you enjoy, no matter what that is - at a reasonable cost - and not too taxing on the family is the equation that builds interest in this day and age. You can get too carried away in ANYTHING you do - limit the carried away portion and the fun and numbers WILL return. A good part of the problem becomes where and when a new guy can run, if he isnt privy to a nearby pond or club he can run in- his chances of staying interested diminish very quickly at even considering rc boats as a hobby. Lets face it - if you cant USE what you chose to play with- whats the fun. In a round about way - Im catching up to myself in rocketry- The more I have progressed with my models - the size and motors I fly - The LESS places Im finding I can fly. When I started , I could go fly and A/B/C motor about anywhere that had a little room- advance to E/F/G ++ motors and whalaaaa - same deal.

L-1 and more and I HAVE to fly at club launches- be an member of one of the 2 orgs ($65+ a year) and spend $20-$30 a flight for a motor + entry fee's......

A mere ??? $'s .per flight + investment to fly a bigger rocket properly and thats only Mid power

Get it yet ?????

 

[nickhartdegen]

For what it's worth...just speaking from some of my past experiences, our club (voodoo model boat club), has seen a growth spurt in the last couple of years. I can only attribute to a few things, the biggest being, if someone shows interest, STOP what you're doing and show them some attention, myself, and other members have literally handed them the transmitter to our boats (not my really nice one) hehe, and coached them around the course (the addition of the 1 dollar guest application) has made this possible. We encourage that person to join, our club, and help them make a decision on the direction they feel like going. Including, vetting the possible purchase of a boat they may be interested in. Also, if they're new to driving, on test days, we stop what we are doing, and let them run, by themselves ! WE CANT KEEP WHAT WE HAVE, UNLESS WE GIVE IT AWAY, after all, we were new once. To me, thats how you promote our hobby (by attraction), jmo, of course. Yes, it's expensive, yes it requires effort, yes there are some in the hobby, and or club that are aholes, etc, but for me, I was given some great help and advice early on, and remembered where I came from. In a day of an "immediate gratification" society, its tough to rein in newbs, but, a little patience and some guidance will go a long way. You see...I dont think it's the "BOD", or too many classes, etc....it's about actually giving up some of our own time to make an interested party feel welcome. Again, these are just some of my past experiences and observations, thanks for letting me share.

Nick Hartdegen

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[Blaise Recca]

Make all classes "Open". Open hydro, open mono, open cat, open tunnel, etc. We will lose some racers, "I don't want to run my 40 mono with the gas boats" but the open classes will grow. Let the most competitive boat for the class be selected by the individual racer. If you want to be competitive you build a boat to run in the open class. If you don't like that idea you stay home. True racers will build according to the class limitations.

One way of handling this with race entries is strict levels of the number of entries needed to run a class. Something like five boat min to run F mono and also offer an open mono class at the same race. After a season or two and you aren't able to muster a class with enough entries maybe, just maybe that racer will be tempted to build a boat that can run in an open mono class. Or stay home.

Bottom line we would have less classes and more entries per class. What I have been doing for years now is looking at what are the most entered classes and build accordingly. Who wants to race two other guy only to worst case still get 3rd place.

I'm thinking about getting out of the twin gas rigger class and selling all my boats and inlines just for that reason. Not enough entries and most races I attend. I like what Voodoo is offering at their race this month. A bunch of open classes. Way to go!

 

[nickhartdegen]

Make all classes "Open". Open hydro, open mono, open cat, open tunnel, etc. We will lose some racers, "I don't want to run my 40 mono with the gas boats" but the open classes will grow. Let the most competitive boat for the class be selected by the individual racer. If you want to be competitive you build a boat to run in the open class. If you don't like that idea you stay home. True racers will build according to the class limitations.

One way of handling this with race entries is strict levels of the number of entries needed to run a class. Something like five boat min to run F mono and also offer an open mono class at the same race. After a season or two and you aren't able to muster a class with enough entries maybe, just maybe that racer will be tempted to build a boat that can run in an open mono class. Or stay home.

Bottom line we would have less classes and more entries per class. What I have been doing for years now is looking at what are the most entered classes and build accordingly. Who wants to race two other guy only to worst case still get 3rd place.

I'm thinking about getting out of the twin gas rigger class and selling all my boats and inlines just for that reason. Not enough entries and most races I attend. I like what Voodoo is offering at their race this month. A bunch of open classes. Way to go!

Thanks Blaise, we love the open "run what ya brung" stuff, and we class race per day, i.e., stock stuff and specialty classes one day, lsg 27 stuff one day, and open on one day, we feel it helps racers that cant always run all 3 days, still have an opportunity to race, even if its just their class on one particular day. Come see us !
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[John Finch]

Nick.....you are exactly right on! Blaise....I feel your pain. I built one of your twins and it is finally doing what I expected with the addition of square drive but no one to race with. The Ft. Richie club made an open class they call king of the lake. They did that so Bob Morton and myself could have a place to run our twins. Works out great. Anyone can run any boat in the class. So if your class doesn't fill you at least have one class you can run in. I scratched the fall nats because we only had three entrys in the twin gas class. I was not going to spend $1,000 for a three day event and only run my single rigger one time per day. That brings us back to the money issue and makes me like Nick's plan to run different classes on different days.

I have an electric 1/8th scale boat that our district let us run in the nitro class for a couple years but right now I am the only one with one of those boats and the district does not allow electric and nitro to run in the same class anymore. I have two electric scales hanging on the wall I can't race, but I may run one of them in the open class at Ft Richie. The bottom line is like Nick said. It's up to us boaters to promote the hobby rather than just look at winning. This comes with helping new boaters, making classes available for folks and sometimes forcing people to change classes if they want to play. Every club is different and they all go through cycles of good and bad. It would be nice if more people would step up, make changes on classes and days run etc, and see how things play out. Change can be good!

 

[Eric Canto]

R/C boating is no more expensive now than it ever was, but I remember going to a race with two, maybe three boats and having just enough prep time between heats. Now with the number of classes, if you don't show up with six boats to run it is HOURS between heats and that is BORING!

 

[Bradley Maglinger]

Well looks like I have hit a nerve. Very Simple Gas Scale Unlimited! Where are the boats that was said that if we have the class they will build the boats. I thinks that I have only seen maybe one of them and it was not finished.

The way boat classes are made is racers in a District create a class and start to race it in there district. Maybe other Districts will follow next to those Districts and more boat are built. When you have a lot of boats in this new class running then you propose the class with all that is needed with the help for all the Districts that are running them. You do not create a class that only has a very small few members wanting a class of that type. This is what the board has done.

Mark I love you, but at the June race you attended we had 5 Gas Scales and then Donnie Dropped the class and we raced 4 of them in four rounds. Also my father Larry Maglinger has a Gas Scale he will be completing in the next two weeks. Maybe you didnt see them at our race? BTW had a blast at your Huntsville race this past weekend

Also with us four guys that car pooled we only spent $233 a piece with fuel, hotel, breakfast at Dennys both days, Hooters one night and Mellow Mushroom the other. Looking forward to the Internats!

 

[Mark Bullard]

I think that some are missing the point. We had 4 to 5 Gas classes to. Had more listed but they did not make along with some of the nitro classes. There is nothing wrong with Gas Scale but how many boats are out there now. This class was created because some in the board thought it would be cool. There were no boats at that time. All I am saying that is not a way to create a class. When we have so many classes in all the types of boats why create a class when there are no boats. You create the boats first and then build the class.

There is one thing that I have always said. "There is not such thing as a Nitro boater, Gas Boater or a Electric Boater" "We are all Model Boaters" and until the board understands this they will never get it.

And yes Brad we were happy that you all came and had a good time. Doc and I don't spend a lot of money either. Some of the Hotels we stay you wonder what's crawling around in the middle of the night. Doc and I both have stayed in some of the best Hotels in the country or the world. But that $250 per night room sleeps no different that the $60 per night when you close you eyes.

 

[Mike Luszcz]

As a hull manufacturer, and probably the largest Gas Scale kit producer, if not the only one besides the hand full of glass gas scales sold by a few, I would like to shed some light on what I have seen over the last 3-4 years with Gas Scale. (and this applies in certain respects to all classes of hulls I made)

The first year or two of Gas Scale (2012-13 if I remember right) , it was strong in the PNW, and the Michigan/ Illinois area, then Indiana then Texas. Those are where the most of them reside. These are what I consider the core men/ women of Scale hydro hull builders, and cowl designers. They put the class on the map, and are still going strong in their areas/ clubs.

The third and fourth year (2014-2015), I started getting new customers wanting a gas scale (from many other states, and countries), but when they realized there were not cowls for the hull kit they wanted, they backed off and went another route. Lack of cowlings, or cowling molds being made and handed off to those who have the time to make them has been the #1 issue. Not a lack of interest in building, or racing. The cowls, are the issue. 1/8th scale thrives...due to the cowlings.

This year, I have noticed a pick up again in Gas Scale, but mainly the kits with cowling available. The economy has turned around, and people are building, and buying again. Again, lack of cowlings is still holding this class back..it just is, no if, ands or buts about it. If a person makes a cowl plug, get it in my hands, or RC Boat Company's hands, or Phil T's hands...get it to someone who can help the class grow!!!!

This Economy issue took years for me to notice with my business, even when everything around me was failing, including my own day job in 2011-2012, kits were still selling. It actually was amazing to me with as bad as jobs were, that people were still doing their hobby. With that said, around 2 years ago, things really fell down, and are only now picking back up. It was almost a 5 year time delay before it really hit home.

In closing...I will say this, and I am almost CERTAIN Zipp Kits, and RC Model Boat Company would say the same thing...80% of my business, is sport boaters, NOT racers. It has always been that way, and always will be. Honestly, my kit designs these days always have sport boaters mostly in mind, as I know they are the ones that come around more.

The thing that is hurting racing the most, and is the reason why I don't/ can't attend races...is the cost to do so. The boats are not that out of line as far as prices..but when you have to travel and spend $500-2000 in a weekend...forget that..Unless you are just really loaded, spending that kind of money, just is not in the middle class's plans. Face it, our economy, our government, everything around us has tripled, if not more in cost over the last 5-10 years, and our pay raises...HA!!!! Not even going there!

Well, that is my perspective from a supplier stand point as I speak to countless boaters every year, and this is just what it is.

Mike