Who Needs a Neu....

[jayt]

The two fastest oval P-boats in the Houston club are Jim's Phil Thomas SS21 rigged by Buaas and a scratrch-built wooden round nose called the Rampage designed and built by Tom. Both run 4S2P, Jim a Neu 1515/1Y and Tom a 9XL Hacker. Now some would automatically say that the Neu-powered boat just has to be faster, it runs the magic Neu. But wait, it isn't so. The SS21 is very fast of course, but the Rampage is as fast or faster. I own both Hackers and Neus (sold all the Feigaos), and it is clear that you do not automatically need a Neu motor to be competitive in oval racing on an 1/8th mile course.

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[David Kingston]

Jay

Thats exactly correct, you dont need a Neu motor to go fast.

Im running a Aquacraft combo in my converted LSH, H&M lifter and its a real hoot to drive. Sticks with most 8Xl powered boats on the 1/8th oval, and my whole setup cost what they pay for the motor.

Nue motors are nice, but saying that i also just brought 2 8XL's for 2 new club boats. Might even take out the Neu in my P-sport and replace it with and 8XL and see if im still on the pace with the other guys in my club. Wont happen till next year thought. Sold my PTSS21... bugger, probably shouldnt have...

Dave

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

and it is clear that you do not automatically need a Neu motor to be competitive in oval racing on an 1/8th mile course.

How would you say they stack up on a 1/6th mile course?? OR just a mile long course regardless of the lap count??

 

[David Kingston]

I know over here in Aus our speed are getting faster, and when Neu motors cam out, we had to have one bacause it was thought that they were the be all end all for speed.

Basically speed is going up because of prop develpoment and the introduction of lipo cells to our classes. Sure the neu motors help out but for a comparasion... We run on a 1500m course.

1515/1.5d motors in a 4s sports hydro, came 1st and 2nd at our nationals.

8XL came 3rd. Think it was a nemisis also.

There was an aveox motor in there that was holding out the neu motor drivers for a few laps but you have to miss bouys and stay up right to win. This boat would have been up there but teething problems was the only issue.

And last was a aquacraft combo, which got lapped, but only just. The driver of this boat was 60 years young also and his 2nd nationals ever. Last one was in the 70's

There was 2 other boats in there, one neu powered and one i cannot remember what motor it had, and im not sure where they came either.

We dont all need a nue, but it might help some times if you can handle the power and are prepared to push hard.

Dave

 

[jayt]

How would you say they stack up on a 1/6th mile course?? OR just a mile long course regardless of the lap count??

They have raced together on the 1/6th mile course and I could still not see a major difference because both boats are about at their hull speeds for race water, regardles of powerplant. Perhaps if you switched hulls there would be more of a difference, but the reality is that - at least with these boats at this level - hull design, setup and driver skill are what really seem to matter.

I have little doubt that the Neus can have advantages in many instances, and for SAW they likely will rule where an appropriate Kv can be found. If we increased hull size then the larger Neu formats would certainly be superior, but with the current 34" max in P we seem to have all the power that we can use right now.

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[Raydee]

Jay its funny that I see this post. I recenty replaced a Neu 1515 1Y with a Hacker 7XL and the Hacker is just faster. I thought I had a bad Neu motor at first but I really think it has something to do with the way the 2 pole Hacker winds up compared to the Neu. I still may try a 1515 1.5D to see if the extra KV helps in my Whiplash.

 

[Darin Jordan]

but with the current 34" max in P we seem to have all the power that we can use right now.

If that's truely the case, then the length limits are achieving EXACTLY what they were designed to do! EXACTLY, what they were designed to do... B)

However... it could also be that people haven't quite figured out yet exactly how to USE a Neu to it's maximum effectiveness... You can't just swap motors and expect to see instand results... There are other factors that need to be worked on to properely use what's there...

 

[Raydee]

Enlighten me Darin. When I switched from my Hacker to my Neu I noticed a drastic speed drop BUT I was using the same X637 prop that worked so well with my Hacker motor. I knew I had to prop up and I did. I went to a X640, x642, m445 and even a m645. At that point the boat still never seemed to have the same speed as the Hacker did on the smaller prop. I think I could have even went up to a m447 but I stopped mainly because the larder props started making the boat handle funny. I think a 45mm prop is quite big on a small 30" hull. In my larger Phil Thomas Sport 40 hull the 1521 1Y that I am running is doing a great job at almost 60mph in oval trim. I have zero complaints with that motor in that hull.

Darin I am not trying to sound like a smart ass with this post, I am def open to suggestions to make the Neu motor work in this boat but for right now the hacker seems to be what the hull likes. I see that a few of the Aus guys are having some good success with the 1515 1.5D motors in their sport 20 hulls and it sounds like they are doing it with the 40-42mm props also. I wish i had a huge supply of Neu motors to try out and find the best one for this hull.

 

[AlanN]

Let me see if I can help you out here Ray.

Every motor likes a specific load and or diameter. The trick is finding that size prop for the motor.

Just replacing props and props with different pitches aren't always going to tell you whether they are better or worse than another. You have to adjust the strut and angle. And that's if your hull is setup well in the first place. For ex: I have seen guys run their cg way out of whack becouse they think that is what the boat needs. What it usually comes down to is that they change their setup to make up for what the incorrect style of prop is doing to their hull.

In reality 4/6/8 pole motors have more torque than a 2 pole. But there are also different KV's for these motors and let's not forget that some motors like certain speed controller programming opposed to others. So there could be several variables as to why one motor seems more powerful than what the basics tell us.

It might be that the motor you switched too changed your cg. The torqier motor might be slipping the cable in the coupler. The amount of blade area on the prop might be loading the neu too much even though you might have found the right diameter. Some of this might seem a bit far fetched (it really is not) but you would be amazed to find out why some boats run slower than others. Then of course there is the "oops I forgot to remove that piece of tape from the bottom of the hull!"

 

[Darin Jordan]

I think a 45mm prop is quite big on a small 30" hull.

Well... to go along with what Alan just posted... I disagree that the 45mm prop is "quite big" on that hull...

An M545 or 645 is where Brian told me he'd start... However, by the time he was done "customizing" the prop for the boat, it would look more like a V-Series prop... Detounging, cupping, raking... you name it it'll get done until the boat slaughters the rest of our boats... doing all these tweaks get's the prop to a point where the HULL can handle it... Every hull is different.

Also, the 7XL is about 200KV higher than the 1515 1Y, which is about 800RPM more on 4S... that can make a difference as well...

 

[Raydee]

WOW a 45mm prop is small. I guess I could give a 47mm with no tongue and back cut a shot and see how the boat goes? I really don't want to give up on this motor yet so I am willing to give it another go.

 

[Darin Jordan]

WOW a 45mm prop is small. I guess I could give a 47mm with no tongue and back cut a shot and see how the boat goes? I really don't want to give up on this motor yet so I am willing to give it another go.

Actually, I was suggesting that a 45mm prop "wasn't quite big" for the hull... not that you should go bigger... A 37mm prop is "quite small" for the hull for the KV being used, in my opinion...

 

[Raydee]

Darin I was running a M445, X445, x645 and the boat just wasn't moving. My Friends Whiplash was running a Fiegao 7XL with a X640 prop and was at least 10 mph faster than my Neu powered Whiplash. Anyway I am not giving up yet on the Neu. I did run the Hacker 7XL tonight on a X642 and it ran pretty nicely. Once I get it running as good as I can possibly get it I will switch back to the Neu and see what happens.

 

[Bill Oxidean]

The two fastest oval P-boats in the Houston club are Jim's Phil Thomas SS21 rigged by Buaas and a scratrch-built wooden round nose called the Rampage designed and built by Tom. Both run 4S2P, Jim a Neu 1515/1Y and Tom a 9XL Hacker. Now some would automatically say that the Neu-powered boat just has to be faster, it runs the magic Neu. But wait, it isn't so. The SS21 is very fast of course, but the Rampage is as fast or faster. I own both Hackers and Neus (sold all the Feigaos), and it is clear that you do not automatically need a Neu motor to be competitive in oval racing on an 1/8th mile course.

.

I've been waiting for someone to shed light on this subject... I couldn't agree more.. And as far as oval, a person can fair out well with motors besides Neu.

Neu motors are hardly EVER used in Europe, funny how some of their SAWS scores are higher than ours even on 1p..

Furthermore, there are a few important factors to consider.. Neu motors have gobs of torque on command, but how's the efficiency?

OPTIMIZING THE POWERBAND is the goal with any motor, and its achieved with prop, weight distribution, and strut depth just to name a few

The motors I run fair out well beceause I've optimized the powerband. You'll know when you've achieved it when the boat runs faster than ever, and temps come back

colder than usual..

 

[tylerm]

Just wondering if theres any MEGA motor experts out there that would be able to tell me what mega would be suitable for a .21 whiplash on 4s2p?

Tyler.

 

[ryan_t888]

You could perhaps try a MEGA 22/45/1 or 22/45/1E. I believe the 1E is around 2100kv and the 1 is about 2500kv.

Ryan

 

[Bill Oxidean]

OK, I'm gonna' let the cat out of the bag..

There's a new kid in town.. A 4-pole motor american based that cost less than HALF the price of a NEU that will perform IDENTICAL if not a tic BETTER..

Truggie, and plane guys are all over 'em many having replaced their Neu motors with them having GAINED performance

Introducing: MEDUSA RESEARCH http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors/036-V2.htm Get a load of their prices!!

Testimonials, and data: http://www.flyupyours.com/heli/dpr/neuvsmedusa4s.htm The tests are on smaller motors, but give an idea of the quality

I hope this helps..

 

[Raydee]

OK, I'm gonna' let the cat out of the bag..There's a new kid in town.. A 4-pole motor american based that cost less than HALF the price of a NEU that will perform IDENTICAL if not a tic BETTER..

Truggie, and plane guys are all over 'em many having replaced their Neu motors with them having GAINED performance

Introducing: MEDUSA RESEARCH http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors/036-V2.htm Get a load of their prices!!

Testimonials, and data: http://www.flyupyours.com/heli/dpr/neuvsmedusa4s.htm The tests are on smaller motors, but give an idea of the quality

I hope this helps..

I had a Medusa in my Trex heli and it made some nice power but I don't think it was better than a Neu....cheaper yes but not better. Who knows though, I guess we will have to try them and see.

 

[jayt]

Sure it helps Wilmer. Hmmm, I wonder who Medua Research is sponsoring these days......

I heard the same kind of claims when the Feiago motors came out - "just as good or better than a Hacker but at half the cost". Those who tried them for awhile found out the truth.

Please note that I am all for additional choices and a wider range of price/quality in BL motors. Now if you pay attention you will see that these motors are NOT made in the USA. That doesn't mean they are bad motors, just not what may have been 'implied'. After all, Hackers are great motors too - which was the whole point of this thread.

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[Bill Oxidean]

OK, I'm gonna' let the cat out of the bag..There's a new kid in town.. A 4-pole motor american based that cost less than HALF the price of a NEU that will perform IDENTICAL if not a tic BETTER..

Truggie, and plane guys are all over 'em many having replaced their Neu motors with them having GAINED performance

Introducing: MEDUSA RESEARCH http://www.medusaproducts.com/motors/036-V2.htm Get a load of their prices!!

Testimonials, and data: http://www.flyupyours.com/heli/dpr/neuvsmedusa4s.htm The tests are on smaller motors, but give an idea of the quality

I hope this helps..