T4 Salt Water Scoop

[Jbenedict]

Hey guys. Does anyone know if the T4 Bud ever ran with the salt water scoop? And if it did, does anyone have pictures of it?

Thanks,

Jonathon

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

Hey guys. Does anyone know if the T4 Bud ever ran with the salt water scoop? And if it did, does anyone have pictures of it?

Thanks,

Jonathon

Never Ran or raced with a Salt water scoop .

 

[misshydro]

Hey guys. Does anyone know if the T4 Bud ever ran with the salt water scoop? And if it did, does anyone have pictures of it?

Thanks,

Jonathon

Never Ran or raced with a Salt water scoop .

I think it would look cool with one. plus they couldve raced with one if they wanted too...They proubley has one?? maybe used one for test runs?? I couldnt see why you couldnt run one? Most of the real deals had them for there boats.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Hey guys. Does anyone know if the T4 Bud ever ran with the salt water scoop? And if it did, does anyone have pictures of it?

Thanks,

Jonathon

Never Ran or raced with a Salt water scoop .

I think it would look cool with one. plus they couldve raced with one if they wanted too...They proubley has one?? maybe used one for test runs?? I couldnt see why you couldnt run one? Most of the real deals had them for there boats.

If it wasn't run during qualifying or in a race on the real boat then it's not legal on a scale in a sanctioned race. If you want to run one for "play" that's fine, just don't try to enter a race with one. Same applies for the small "winglets" they tested on the front sponsons of the T-4, not legal.

 

[Gale54]

Hey guys. Does anyone know if the T4 Bud ever ran with the salt water scoop? And if it did, does anyone have pictures of it?

Thanks,

Jonathon

Never Ran or raced with a Salt water scoop .

I think it would look cool with one. plus they couldve raced with one if they wanted too...They proubley has one?? maybe used one for test runs?? I couldnt see why you couldnt run one? Most of the real deals had them for there boats.

If it wasn't run during qualifying or in a race on the real boat then it's not legal on a scale in a sanctioned race. If you want to run one for "play" that's fine, just don't try to enter a race with one. Same applies for the small "winglets" they tested on the front sponsons of the T-4, not legal.

Whats it matter length and width that is all IMPBA looks at. And yes I have a bad attitude. Benedict build the boat like you know to do. It will be great !

 

[Dasboatman]

"Whats it matter length and width that is all IMPBA looks at. And yes I have a bad attitude. Benedict build the boat like you know to do. It will be great !"

You don't want to have to be concerned by a pesky thing like a Rule Book. Based on Gales observation, you'll be limited to running the T-4 Bud in E Hydro in IMPBA, and C Hydro under NAMBA Rule Book. Jonathon. Don's and Doug's comments are "spot on" and good advice. CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[Gale54]

"Whats it matter length and width that is all IMPBA looks at. And yes I have a bad attitude. Benedict build the boat like you know to do. It will be great !"

You don't want to have to be concerned by a pesky thing like a Rule Book. Based on Gales observation, you'll be limited to running the T-4 Bud in E Hydro in IMPBA, and C Hydro under NAMBA Rule Book. Jonathon. Don's and Doug's comments are "spot on" and good advice. CHEERS !!! Bob

I am not telling Jonathon to build an illegal boat. I am being facetious about a matter that occurred at the Nats,

 

[Jeff Schindler]

Dad is rebuilding a 2000 Elam, maybe we can paint it as the '97 Close Call? Seriously there is an underlying issue with scale rules, where we as a community spend the time and effort to build the boat based on commonly accepted rules, but those rules are not the ones in print in IMPBA.

Don, you say that the cool little winglets on a T-4 are illegal, yet the rulebook only says

"Boats will look as scale as possible and meet the following requirements for racing

and scale judging:" -March 2006 IMPBA Rulebook

Don, Im not trying to call you out, just pointing out the descrepancy between what we as scale enthusiasts see as law, and what is written in the rules. There are many other examples. Where does it say, "The prototype must have qualified or raced at a sanctioned Unlimited Hydroplane Event?"

 

[Ray Sametz]

"Whats it matter length and width that is all IMPBA looks at. And yes I have a bad attitude. Benedict build the boat like you know to do. It will be great !"

You don't want to have to be concerned by a pesky thing like a Rule Book. Based on Gales observation, you'll be limited to running the T-4 Bud in E Hydro in IMPBA, and C Hydro under NAMBA Rule Book. Jonathon. Don's and Doug's comments are "spot on" and good advice. CHEERS !!! Bob

I am not telling Jonathon to build an illegal boat. I am being facetious about a matter that occurred at the Nats,

Maybe a little Degree, and don't sweat it. Couldn't help myself.

 

[Gale54]

"Whats it matter length and width that is all IMPBA looks at. And yes I have a bad attitude. Benedict build the boat like you know to do. It will be great !"

You don't want to have to be concerned by a pesky thing like a Rule Book. Based on Gales observation, you'll be limited to running the T-4 Bud in E Hydro in IMPBA, and C Hydro under NAMBA Rule Book. Jonathon. Don's and Doug's comments are "spot on" and good advice. CHEERS !!! Bob

I am not telling Jonathon to build an illegal boat. I am being facetious about a matter that occurred at the Nats,

Maybe a little Degree, and don't sweat it. Couldn't help myself.

Humor I like it.

 

[Buddy Benedict]

Thanks for the replies. We weren't sure if the real boat ran or qualified at San Diego. Just thought it would look cool with a scoop on it.

Everybody that knows me, knows I'll build the boat to what we Scale guys would built it to and not just by the length and width rules that are in the rule book.

Thanks,

Buddy

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I know the R/C Unlimited rulebook say that, to be legal, the owner/builder needs to show photograpic evidence of the boat being in the water in the configuration modelled per section 3 paragraph A rule 3 as shown below

Section III: Boat Specifications, Eligibility, Ownership,

 

Registration, Inspection, and Qualification

 

A. Hull, Engine and Equipment Requirements

 

1. All boats shall be models of past or present American Power Boat

Association Unlimited Hydroplanes that are listed in the R/C Unlimiteds

 

Master Hull Roster.

 

2. a. Boats shall be built to scale of 1 1/2 inches (model) equals 1 foot

(actual unlimited).

 

b. Boats shall measure within the following tolerance of true scale size,

excluding appendages:

 

1. length overall ......................................

 

2. beam ...................................................

 

3. maximum depth ..................................

 

4. afterplane length (three point design)..

 

5. tunnel width ........................................

 

6. picklefork depth ..................................

 

7. Un-dimensioned boats must have dimensions approved by the

 

R/C Unlimiteds Contest Board.

 

3. Boats shall be painted, configured and detailed like the actual unlimited

with cockpit detail. The acquisition of proof validating a paint scheme,

 

cowling configuration, engine configuration or other scale details shall be

 

the responsibility of the boat's owner. Photographs of the boat in the water at

 

an unlimited hydroplane event in racing configuration shall constitute proof.

 

4. Boats shall enter competition complete with cowling(s) and driver(s). Boats

with canopy must have clear canopy with cockpit and driver. It is

 

recommended that scale drivers have arms, avoiding the use of model

 

airplane "busts."

 

5. The boat engine(s) shall be concealed by an engine cowl or fake engine

(modeling an Allison, Rolls, etc.) or both.

 

6. Rear non-trips and sponson sides must be scaled after the actual unlimited.

7. Reversing or "mirror imaging" sponson sides and general sponson

design is allowable on model if actual unlimited has non-symmetrical

 

sponsons (current Ron Jones sponsons).

 

a. Boats modeled after unlimiteds using Jones non-symmetrical

sponsons (48" right and 38" left widths) must also have nonsymmetrical

 

sponsons (approx. 1 1/4" difference). Sponsons may be

 

widened or narrowed up to 10% (as part of the total width), however,

 

both must be of equal percentage in the same direction. If the right

 

sponson, for example, is widened 5%, the left sponson must also be

 

widened 5%.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Dad is rebuilding a 2000 Elam, maybe we can paint it as the '97 Close Call? Seriously there is an underlying issue with scale rules, where we as a community spend the time and effort to build the boat based on commonly accepted rules, but those rules are not the ones in print in IMPBA.

Don, you say that the cool little winglets on a T-4 are illegal, yet the rulebook only says

"Boats will look as scale as possible and meet the following requirements for racing

and scale judging:" -March 2006 IMPBA Rulebook

Don, Im not trying to call you out, just pointing out the descrepancy between what we as scale enthusiasts see as law, and what is written in the rules. There are many other examples. Where does it say, "The prototype must have qualified or raced at a sanctioned Unlimited Hydroplane Event?"

December 2007 Roostertail-

IMPBA ballot #07-005-

See Pages H-4 thru H-6 in the current March 2006 Rule Book,

make the following five (5) selected changes:

Existing

Registration Procedures

2. g. $5.00 initial registration fee and a $3.00 annual renewal fee due by March 1. The registrant will

receive a District Chairman approved form verifying current registration. Approved form must be

brought to all contests. Purpose of fee-monies will be used for high point district trophy, postage,

printing costs, and other expenses incurred.

#1 - Change to read:

2. g. $5.00 annual District registration fee to be submitted upon completion of model & prior to it competing

in any sanctioned event. Purpose of fees-monies is to cover registration printing costs & postage

fees. A boat registered in one District may race in any District.

Existing

Engine and Boat Specifications, See # 1, Add to #3.d., See #7:

1. All boats to be modeled after Unlimited hydroplanes from past or present.

#2 - Change to read:

1. All models must be of a real unlimited hydroplane as listed in the APBA Master Hull Roster list. The

model owner must show the real boat attempted to qualify, qualified or raced in an actual sanctioned

racing event, in the configuration being modeled, via photographic and/or written documentation.

Failure to adequately meet the validation requirements can result in the model not being allowed to

compete in an IMPBA event until proper documentation is obtained.

#3 - Add the following as 3. d.

3. d. Minimum 50% of glow engine crankcase (flywheel is not considered part of crankcase) must be

concealed with fake engine or cowling as per prototype boat.

Existing

7. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype boat did so.

#4 - Change to read:

7. The drive dog must not extend beyond the transom unless the prototype's strut and/or drive dog did

so. Photo documentation may be requested for proof by race CD or district scale director.

Racing Rules

#5 - Change Rule #11 on page H-6 to read as follows

11. Normal heat racing rules can be used as optional racing format however each heat will be limited to

no more than 6 boats raced together at any one time. International Regatta racing will revert to regular

heat racing rules for Scale US-1 with the same 6 boat per heat limit.

From what I recall it passed easily (my district was all yes votes I believe) and I can only assume it will be in the new rulebook that will be out very soon.

 

[ggeiselman]

Where do you find the APBA master hull list, and will the current hulls be listed on it?

 

[Bob Koch]

There is also a pic of the T4 sitting on a trailer with a full conard rather than the winglets... so what rule book is used? The one that says a picture or the one that says attempted to qualify?

 

[Hydro Junkie]

You can find the APBA Master Hull Roster under the information tab of R/C Unlimiteds website. The tab is toward the bottom on the left side. You will then have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to find the link to the roster. The website's address is http://rcunlimiteds.org

 

[ggeiselman]

You can find the APBA Master Hull Roster under the information tab of R/C Unlimiteds website. The tab is toward the bottom on the left side. You will then have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to find the link to the roster. The website's address is http://rcunlimiteds.org

Thank You.

 

[Dasboatman]

Hey Buddy,

Per the Hydro's Who's Who, MHR 9401 - the T-4 Bud appeared at 4 races in 1994:

• 6JUN Exide Batteries APBA Gold Cup - Did Not Compete
  
• 12JUN Texas Hydrofest Lewisville, TX - Did Not Compete
  
• 7AUG Texaco Cup Seattle, WA - - Did Not Compete
  
• 18SEPT San Diego Bayfair - - Did Not Qualify
  

In 1995:

• 4JUN APBA Gold Cup, Detroit - Did Not Compete
  
• 18JUN TEXACO SmartMart Hydrofair Kansas City - Did Not Compete
  
• 25JUN Pontiac Thunder on the Ohio Evansville - Did Not Compete
  
• 2JUL Budweiser Indiana Govenor's Cup - 6th Place - Mark Evans drove it
  
• 16 JUL Texas Hydrofest '95 Lewisville - Did Not Compete
  
• 30JUL Columbia Cup TRI-Cities - Did Not Compete
  
• 6AUG Texaco Cup Seattle - Did Not Compete
  

I don't believe the hull ran again. It was modified and became U-8 Llumar Window Film '03 - '04; and Miss Beacon Plumbing in 2006 - - -

The only reason it even ran in Madison - - the other hulls were to torn up to race. CHEERS !!! Bob

 

[Mike McKnight]

Well if you can find a picture of it running on the water with a full canard on it you could build it that way according the NAMBA rule book. There used to be wording in the NAMBA rule book similar to the IMBPA rules about it being a verified sanctioned race either testing or qualifying but that has been changed apparently since my tenure as NAMBA Scale Chairman. I do remember dealing with an issue with this boat that involved the rear wing. The canard and winglets came up too. It was determined that the boat had to run WITH a rear wing since it originally started the race with one and they broke two of them through out the course of the race. Running without a wing was not an option as it was not done intentionally by the Bud team. Second, the canard wing was not legal to run as it was not seen as running with it on from any of the race footage. This was later confirmed in some emails I traded with Mark Evans as he was the one driving the boat the only time it ran. As for whether it qualified or ran in San Diego, it did not. In San Diego in 1995 Chip was driving the T3 in which he had a weird accident and broke the sponson off the boat and rolled it.

 

[Buddy Benedict]

Great INFO guys. I plan on building it as it ran in Madison( full wing set and no front canard or winglets). We were at that race and the longer the day went the more things broke on that boat. The horizontal broke in the first two heats and the Bud team didn't have any more. The third heat it ran without the horizontal and I believe the uprights got tore up. In the final Mark Evans hooked the boat in turn one and got DQed when he restarted and cut the Madison boat off causing it to spin out. That race also had the T Plus flip at the end of the front straight. Wild day or racing.

Buddy