Struts- Bearings or Bushings?

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Jeff Cowey

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
82
Are bearings practical in struts for final drives. I have experimented with needle bearings and found they dont wear out as quick as bronze bushings. I think they require a little more care, but are they worth fooling around with? I can make my own bushings. Does anyone use bearings in struts or are they a no~no.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.

Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
 
Have not ran needle bearings in years. I use brass bushings on all of my shafts and I have bushings that are over ten years old. The key to running them is plenty of lub plus a well balance prop. If you use grease you should grease the shaft every 2 to 3 runs. I like to use "Doc's Oilers". All you have to do is fill the tank up before every run with a good 10w 30 motor oil and forget about it.
 
brass k ans s tubing, and one of our oilers. the best and longest lasting setup. needle bearings cut into the shaft
 
Are bearings practical in struts for final drives. I have experimented with needle bearings and found they dont wear out as quick as bronze bushings. I think they require a little more care, but are they worth fooling around with? I can make my own bushings. Does anyone use bearings in struts or are they a no~no.
Bearings in struts are old tech. Needle bearings require alot of care and cleaning to keep them working.

Not with a brass sleeve on your flex cable, just needs a constant lubrication, as per a shaft oiler.

This is also less drag on your power plant, and longer life on both your flex cable and brass sleeve.

I have kept shafts and sleeves in almost new condition for 3 years running an oiler at stuffing tube

entry. The oiler I have used is here: http://woodrcboatproducts.com/flex_shaft_oilers.htm
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
None. All you have to do is set the drive dog about 1/8" to 3/16" from the strut on 3/16" shafts and about 1/4" on 1/4" shafts. A am surprized that you have not had you strut move from the thrust twist of the shaft. When the shaft is clamped in the motor collet and the drive dog runs against thrust washers as the shaft winds up it get shorter or tries to and something has to move.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
None. All you have to do is set the drive dog about 1/8" to 3/16" from the strut on 3/16" shafts and about 1/4" on 1/4" shafts. A am surprized that you have not had you strut move from the thrust twist of the shaft. When the shaft is clamped in the motor collet and the drive dog runs against thrust washers as the shaft winds up it get shorter or tries to and something has to move.
Good Posting :D :D
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
None. All you have to do is set the drive dog about 1/8" to 3/16" from the strut on 3/16" shafts and about 1/4" on 1/4" shafts. A am surprized that you have not had you strut move from the thrust twist of the shaft. When the shaft is clamped in the motor collet and the drive dog runs against thrust washers as the shaft winds up it get shorter or tries to and something has to move.
I use a stinger set up from speed master. Not much to move. I have noticed that the inner core of flex shaft did shrink about 1/8 in. I just cut the cable off did not solder the the end.
 
Have not ran needle bearings in years. I use brass bushings on all of my shafts and I have bushings that are over ten years old. The key to running them is plenty of lub plus a well balance prop. If you use grease you should grease the shaft every 2 to 3 runs. I like to use "Doc's Oilers". All you have to do is fill the tank up before every run with a good 10w 30 motor oil and forget about it.
Motor Oil isn't too ecologically safe. All that oil going in the water. Get some Grim Racer biodegradable cable oil, or not I'm sure this is not even a drop in bucket. Just something to consider if you care. Never new they made the stuff. Recently saw it advertised. I use grease and if I was to think of how many tubs I've bought that surely ended up in our lake

it would be sad. Oh boy.

Daniel
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
None. All you have to do is set the drive dog about 1/8" to 3/16" from the strut on 3/16" shafts and about 1/4" on 1/4" shafts. A am surprized that you have not had you strut move from the thrust twist of the shaft. When the shaft is clamped in the motor collet and the drive dog runs against thrust washers as the shaft winds up it get shorter or tries to and something has to move.
I use a stinger set up from speed master. Not much to move. I have noticed that the inner core of flex shaft did shrink about 1/8 in. I just cut the cable off did not solder the the end.
That maybe what your seeing on the shaft windup. And it may even be slowing you down when it does windup. Just give it some distance and allow the motor to take the thrust, it can take it. Also I don't solder the end of my shafts either. I know a lot of people do but look at it this way. If you have both ends fixed solid and you have bend in the shaft tube the conductors in the cable can't move. They will stretch over time and then break either at the motor or the shaft stub. This will be a very short life for the shaft. I have shafts that have been running for over ten years.
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
None. All you have to do is set the drive dog about 1/8" to 3/16" from the strut on 3/16" shafts and about 1/4" on 1/4" shafts. A am surprized that you have not had you strut move from the thrust twist of the shaft. When the shaft is clamped in the motor collet and the drive dog runs against thrust washers as the shaft winds up it get shorter or tries to and something has to move.
I use a stinger set up from speed master. Not much to move. I have noticed that the inner core of flex shaft did shrink about 1/8 in. I just cut the cable off did not solder the the end.
Hi, David! Are you using Aeromarine colett? If yes, take a look on attached picture. Call me for any questions.

Boris.

[email protected]
 
Hi Jeff, all my boats and all the ones i build for others have needle roller struts and case hardened ( nitrided) shafts.Never ever had one wear out. My 1/8 scale has the original strut bearings still, there about 6 years old now, 3/16 bearings and stub shaft.
I am using a speed master 1/4 stinger that I drilled out and installed 3/16 needle bearing. Using flex shaft that I got from local shop buy I don't think it is a hardened shaft.

Wear can I get one with a hardened shaft?
Octura sells hardened shafts for use with needle bearings. They may have something that will work for your setup.

Some hardened shafts are not threaded so you use a shaft collar to keep the prop on.
Yes I have seen the shaft at the shop. what is the best way to attach to the flex cable.

The one I have now was premade.
There are no flex shafts that are hardened. Why, because if you welded a hardened stub to a flax cable it would snap like a match stick. Use standard flex shafts with brass bushings in standard K&S tubing with grease or oilers. Lose the needles, it is old school and is very hard to keep up. The reason that they are still out there is that a few old boats that have been past around for years and have been brought back to life by new boaters that have not seen the newer stuff that is run.
What shoud be used for thrust washer.

I am using 3 piece thrust bearing.
None. All you have to do is set the drive dog about 1/8" to 3/16" from the strut on 3/16" shafts and about 1/4" on 1/4" shafts. A am surprized that you have not had you strut move from the thrust twist of the shaft. When the shaft is clamped in the motor collet and the drive dog runs against thrust washers as the shaft winds up it get shorter or tries to and something has to move.
I use a stinger set up from speed master. Not much to move. I have noticed that the inner core of flex shaft did shrink about 1/8 in. I just cut the cable off did not solder the the end.
Hi, David! Are you using Aeromarine colett? If yes, take a look on attached picture. Call me for any questions.

Boris.

[email protected]
No I am using a new K&B colett. Attachés to crank with piece of all thread. Insert looks like a double ended bullet.
 
I believe the hard shaft ball bearing setup Don Pinckert make a few centuries ago was the fastest setup. The needle bearing setup I used in the late 60's always ate my stub shafts. I heat treated the shafts myself but sometimes they got too brittle. The hard shaft setup at 5 to 7 degrees if I remember right had to be used with high angle sponson attack angles, again if I remember right. To make a long story very short, I have tried them all and use the flex cable with the brass bushing from speedmaster. Mark Bullard introduced the setup to me back at the nats in Huntsville about 1985 or so and I've been using it ever since. BECAUSE it is simple, easy to install, and lasts forever. I remember u-joints letting loose and driveshafts going thru the bottom of the boat and stuff like that many years ago. Also, when you use the flex with a bushing you can gease the shaft as you put it into the stuffing tube where if you had bearings the bearings strip all the grease off. I don't use the oil because I guess I'm just lazy. I grease my driveshaft before a big race and don't remove it to clean it up until I get home from the race. I used to clean and grease the shaft after every two or three heats, but Steve Speas asked one night why I spent so much time cleaning up after a day at the race and got me thinking. Why do I go thru all this proceedure. Now the boat just stays in the trailer and we go out to eat dinner with the guys and have fun cutting up.
 
Thanks to all who took the time to reply. There is a lot of experience and useful information enclosed. I will continue to experiment with bearings. I have had no bad luck with them so far. I know my Hydro is faster running bearings. I doubt I will run an oiler mainly for the fact that I don't want to dump a oz of oil into the pond every run. The big oil slick doesn't look real good when the tree huggers are looking down thier nose at me in the first place! I re-grease the shaft every run. I am definitly going to look into the "Green Grease" to be a little more enviromentaly friendly. I just dont like the sloppy play I get with bushings. Everything might find its own on the water but when the prop is flopping around on shore when we fire it up... I look and CRINGE!!

:D Jeff~Mad~Boater :angry:
 
Thanks to all who took the time to reply. There is a lot of experience and useful information enclosed. I will continue to experiment with bearings. I have had no bad luck with them so far. I know my Hydro is faster running bearings. I doubt I will run an oiler mainly for the fact that I don't want to dump a oz of oil into the pond every run. The big oil slick doesn't look real good when the tree huggers are looking down thier nose at me in the first place! I re-grease the shaft every run. I am definitly going to look into the "Green Grease" to be a little more enviromentaly friendly. I just dont like the sloppy play I get with bushings. Everything might find its own on the water but when the prop is flopping around on shore when we fire it up... I look and CRINGE!!:D Jeff~Mad~Boater :angry:
Jeff - that 3 piece thrust will probably cut a groove in your shaft in time. You might try teflon washers (not nylon). Take a close look at the bearings you're buying. There are 2 types - the ones that have needles all the way around will try to climb each other & get flat spots. I've had success w/ the ones that have a plastic cage - they look like every other needle is missing. A tip to make them live - if you're using any kind of oil for lube, add a little BG Extreme Pressure Concentrate. I have never lost a bearing or shaft since I started using it.

Larry K
 
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