State of Affairs for RC Boat Racing

[WAYDE BLOEDORN]

LaMans starts would cure a lot of problems from milling to jumps starts to choosing a lane

Great Idea

I'm going to suggest it at this weekend's club race and see how it works

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[Ron B.]

As far as the lane one thing....really ?!! Lol, isn't that part of the race. If "you're" getting beat to lane one, here's an idea...PRACTICE GETTING LANE ONE, AS HARD AS YOU PRACTICE MAKING YA BOAT GO FAST [emoji3].....cmon guys, this is, after all, racing, is it not ?

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Exactly!

I second that! Its like Drag racing "When the Green flag drops the BS Stops" get the start or put it in the Trailer!

However I must also say I have won many heats without getting Lane 1 at the start! Keeping the pressure on the guy that did and passing when the door gets opened is an art form and I might add makes for very exciting racing! Most of these suggestions to change the way we race wont get you a new boater! When you see someone interested don't scare them away Welcome them and answer any questions they may have. The problem is they will ask how much does it cost and that most of the time is why they walk away from the hobby!

 

[Andy Greene]

LaMans starts would cure a lot of problems from milling to jumps starts to choosing a lane

Great Idea

I'm going to suggest it at this weekend's club race and see how it works

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It truly is only practical in certain classes, I wouldnt try it with , lets just say gas hydro's or scales nor would I want too

That said , its GREAT FUN in 20 tunnel and Mod VP - you almost have to use a tri oval and - well yeah- just do a you tube search

 

[Andy Greene]

As far as the lane one thing....really ?!! Lol, isn't that part of the race. If "you're" getting beat to lane one, here's an idea...PRACTICE GETTING LANE ONE, AS HARD AS YOU PRACTICE MAKING YA BOAT GO FAST [emoji3].....cmon guys, this is, after all, racing, is it not ?

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Exactly!

I second that! Its like Drag racing "When the Green flag drops the BS Stops" get the start or put it in the Trailer!

However I must also say I have won many heats without getting Lane 1 at the start! Keeping the pressure on the guy that did and passing when the door gets opened is an art form and I might add makes for very exciting racing! Most of these suggestions to change the way we race wont get you a new boater! When you see someone interested don't scare them away Welcome them and answer any questions they may have. The problem is they will ask how much does it cost and that most of the time is why they walk away from the hobby!

So, what are you thoughts on moving the start line back more towards buoy 6 IMPBA / 10 NAMBA ?

It forces you to be in a lane , as your in a corner, and the start being closer to the exit of the corner . The down side I see is the outside guys are gonna make a harder run and push the clock and the CD's will have tougher start calls- Revisit start line cams ?? - takes away that - he didnt make the OVER call soon enough deal with an entire front straight to make the call

imho ??

 

[Mike Cathey]

Don, don't forget to add that everyone should get a trophy so there's never any need to apply yourself to improve your driving, equipment, preparation or even show up on a regular basis to develop any of these skills because everyone is special,and if it doesn't go your way, well you can always comfort yourself with the sure knowledge that you are a victim.

How boats can fit in lane one for a legal start because if you stick 6 in there let's do it but if you have to mantain a lane then there's a problem. So you must think that the boat in lane one winning 95% of the time is really racing and they have the best equipment. I takes 5-7 mph to pass on the outside and in gas nobody really has that on tap no matter what equipment you have. This is not about getting a lolipop it a perception from a perspective new boater that he will never have a chance to excell because he never has a chance because lane one is always taken by the same couple of boater every heat race
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Up here in the Pacific NW running 1/8th scale nitro 90% of the races are won by 3 NAMBA National Champs. If Kirk Maupin, John Hruby or Dave Brandt are racing they are probably going to win. So what? They provide a challenge to the rest of us to improve. I have went from building wood boats to fiberglass to vacuum bagged and cured carbon fiber, mod my own engines and fine tune my design by building a new boat every year to up my game. I win once in a while but if that's the only reason to show up I would have been gone 20 years ago. It's not life and death. Like most new guys I showed up and didn't do all that well. I didn't know how to tune, set a boat up or even know what good racing habits were. BUT I KEPT WORKING AT IT. And because I kept showing up some of the fast guys started helping me and luckily I was teachable enough to listen to what they were telling me.

It's a hobby for fun. Model boating has provided me an opportunity to have some great friendships and I can share my love for unlimited hydroplanes with like minded people. As far as the lane 1 deal that's just boat racing. Sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. I had my 16 year old grandson out for the first time this past year and started him behind the field with the emphasis on just finishing heats and improving driving skills. He got into the final on that basis (finished 3rd) of just finishing while the rest of us were racing like fiends from the pit and dumping the boat or getting fouls.

 

[nickhartdegen]

As far as the lane one thing....really ?!! Lol, isn't that part of the race. If "you're" getting beat to lane one, here's an idea...PRACTICE GETTING LANE ONE, AS HARD AS YOU PRACTICE MAKING YA BOAT GO FAST [emoji3].....cmon guys, this is, after all, racing, is it not ?

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Exactly!

I second that! Its like Drag racing "When the Green flag drops the BS Stops" get the start or put it in the Trailer!However I must also say I have won many heats without getting Lane 1 at the start! Keeping the pressure on the guy that did and passing when the door gets opened is an art form and I might add makes for very exciting racing! Most of these suggestions to change the way we race wont get you a new boater! When you see someone interested don't scare them away Welcome them and answer any questions they may have. The problem is they will ask how much does it cost and that most of the time is why they walk away from the hobby!

So, what are you thoughts on moving the start line back more towards buoy 6 IMPBA / 10 NAMBA ? It forces you to be in a lane , as your in a corner, and the start being closer to the exit of the corner . The down side I see is the outside guys are gonna make a harder run and push the clock and the CD's will have tougher start calls- Revisit start line cams ?? - takes away that - he didnt make the OVER call soon enough deal with an entire front straight to make the call

imho ??

It would be **** near impossible to call the start from where the cd stands are located.
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[Ron B.]

As far as the lane one thing....really ?!! Lol, isn't that part of the race. If "you're" getting beat to lane one, here's an idea...PRACTICE GETTING LANE ONE, AS HARD AS YOU PRACTICE MAKING YA BOAT GO FAST [emoji3].....cmon guys, this is, after all, racing, is it not ?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Exactly!

I second that! Its like Drag racing "When the Green flag drops the BS Stops" get the start or put it in the Trailer!

However I must also say I have won many heats without getting Lane 1 at the start! Keeping the pressure on the guy that did and passing when the door gets opened is an art form and I might add makes for very exciting racing! Most of these suggestions to change the way we race wont get you a new boater! When you see someone interested don't scare them away Welcome them and answer any questions they may have. The problem is they will ask how much does it cost and that most of the time is why they walk away from the hobby!

So, what are you thoughts on moving the start line back more towards buoy 6 IMPBA / 10 NAMBA ?

It forces you to be in a lane , as your in a corner, and the start being closer to the exit of the corner . The down side I see is the outside guys are gonna make a harder run and push the clock and the CD's will have tougher start calls- Revisit start line cams ?? - takes away that - he didnt make the OVER call soon enough deal with an entire front straight to make the call

imho ??

Andy I just don't see that as happening (1) right now the CD stand is in the center at the start finish line. I don't see clubs moving CD Stands to call a start on the exit of a turn. Brandon surely can't as they have a permanent structure plus the brush/trees down at the turn would pose a problem in getting rid of them to make that happen, not to mention that if they moved the CD to the turn then they will have even more trouble making calls on the course. A lot of lakes are good for how we have ran for years to reinvent that may make a race site unusable. I have no problems with the way it is now I can get lane one, not 100% of the time but that's part of the challenge! I got a perfect score in Thunderboat this past race in Brandon and I only got lane 1 in the first heat the other 3 I had to drive around them and that is racing to me!

Mike Cathey good post! Good Luck to you out there those guys are tough!

Edit: Added another reason not to move CD Tower.

 

[Mike Whitney]

Maybe some misunderstood the slanted start line...it makes it so all the boats, no matter what lane they are in will travel the same distance around the course on the 1st lap...what does that mean....simple...no more need to fight for lane 1. The whole reason there are pile ups in the 1st corner is two fold, 1st everyone knows that the faster you can get to the inside the better, 2nd when 6 boats all go into the corner at the same time...it's really hard to keep track of what lane your boat is in and it get's lost in spray. You would have to move the start back a little bit, but I don't think that would really be a problem for most courses.

Also, as I say stated before, because of the stagger, there will be no more mass pile ups in the 1st turn, everyone can easily see there boat and then , let the racing really start down the backstretch.

Andy, I also don't see why you think that the start would any harder to call.....a straight line is a straight line....I always blocked the start line with a clipboard, line up the edge and there you go , so to me, it would not make much difference in calling the starts...

 

[Ron B.]

A Staggered start only works for standing start track and field type events, also on this type event they have to remain in the lane they are in for a certain distance before they can move to the inside lane. This wont work in boating as now the CD has to watch everyone to assure they did not move in to early.

I like the way it is now and I don't always get lane one but I win my share of heats anyway!

 

[Mike Whitney]

Ron...we can agree..to disagree.

 

[dwilfong]

How many boat you going to run in a heat?

6 boat heat is a good # of boats easy to keep track of.

3 boats wide and two deep is a good group to maintain for a start.

With the rules that are already in place you have to hold your lane NO?

So using this as a new rule for starts determined from a draw would be easy to implement?

Cut the heats to 3 with 12 laps each. last heat is a run off the top 6 for the wood.

This would make for better racing all the way around.

The time between heats is what eats up time in a race not the racing.

Cut back on this and you can spend more time on the water not in the pits.

That's the whole point racing on the water NO?

Not sitting at the tent or standing in the pits waiting for the mess to be cleaned up.

Big heats with lots of boats = crashed boats and time to pick them up.

More manageable heats = less crashes = less time cleaning up the mess.

2 /12 lap heats is 24 laps. 4/ 6 lap heats is 24 laps. so for those that are not in the top 6 you still have the same amount of time on the water.

Less boats in a heat and more laps give better racing for all.

 

[dr gary turner]

I like all these ideas. Anything to break up the monotony and make it a race, not just a parade. Maybe we could have a 10 lap race with a slanted start or (buoy 6 impba)(buoy 10 namba) start. The slanted start would have to have a straight line finish. We can always try these out at local races to see how they work. Here in District 12 we have a gas only race where we run 8 laps. If we come up with something that works we could make a motion through the proper channels to insert the option into national races. It makes sense to at least try it in the gas classes at the local level to see what comes of the different formats. Keep the ideas coming!

I have never been bored when racing.

Since we don't have an audience that is paying to watch us race and be entertained I don't see a need for major changes in our format.

I as many others have races where there are lead changes and incredible driving. The speeds have gotten so high that most heats are exciting and challenging.

As some will say Doc is against change and is one of the old guard.

I am not against change but any changes need a lot of thought

When I was a resident under Dr John Kirklin world famous cardiac and pediatric cardiac surgeon stressed that if there was going to be a change in a procedure there needs to be good evidence support the NEED FOR CHANGE AND TO CHANGE ONE THING AT A TIME AND THEN ASSESS whether it was beneficial or not.

Doing several changes and one has no idea what worked or failed.

What we have now in racing is really pretty good.

There may room for some improvement BUT ANY CHANGE NEEDS A LOT OF THOUGHT and not just MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL HEMOPHILIA.

BTW: It is so much better today than it was years ago. 30 yrs ago a radio cost $300-400. They were awful compared to today's radio and servos.

We would have to pack our rudders in foam so the rudder did not get bumped and strip the gears.

Boats cost a little more now but are SO MUCH BETTER, better materials CF DELRIN DYVINICIL to just name a few

Hardware: Pot aluminum, now hi grade machined aluminum and titanium

Also in the good ole days we raced one and at most 2 boats. Indy Unlimited it was ONE BOAT PER PERSON 120 contestants.

There are many more races now. In our region we had Atlanta Indy Unlimited and Southern Gentleman(New Orleans). There were 2 smaller races Memphis and Birmingham for a short period of time.

Thus we had to travel then for a major race and is no different now. Part of the reason for not filling out the various classes is again TOO MANY CLASSES AND MANY MORE RACES to attend and some clubs offering TOO MANY RACES which impact other clubs wanting to put on a race.

So in summary: What we have now in racing in IMPBA is pretty good. Maybe there could be some changes for improved racing BUT any changes need considerable thought on the ramifications of the change.

 

[dwilfong]

The nitro classes are different than the gas. changing the nitro class racing would not amount to any thing better than what we have now.

The amount of fuel used is the issue with nitro racing. Trying to do more laps will not work as most just make the full mill and 6 laps racing now.

Mono nitro boats may be the only class that could try to do more laps or a modified course.

 

[mercguy]

I like all these ideas. Anything to break up the monotony and make it a race, not just a parade. Maybe we could have a 10 lap race with a slanted start or (buoy 6 impba)(buoy 10 namba) start. The slanted start would have to have a straight line finish. We can always try these out at local races to see how they work. Here in District 12 we have a gas only race where we run 8 laps. If we come up with something that works we could make a motion through the proper channels to insert the option into national races. It makes sense to at least try it in the gas classes at the local level to see what comes of the different formats. Keep the ideas coming!

I have never been bored when racing.

Since we don't have an audience that is paying to watch us race and be entertained I don't see a need for major changes in our format.

I as many others have races where there are lead changes and incredible driving. The speeds have gotten so high that most heats are exciting and challenging.

As some will say Doc is against change and is one of the old guard.

I am not against change but any changes need a lot of thought

When I was a resident under Dr John Kirklin world famous cardiac and pediatric cardiac surgeon stressed that if there was going to be a change in a procedure there needs to be good evidence support the NEED FOR CHANGE AND TO CHANGE ONE THING AT A TIME AND THEN ASSESS whether it was beneficial or not.

Doing several changes and one has no idea what worked or failed.

What we have now in racing is really pretty good.

There may room for some improvement BUT ANY CHANGE NEEDS A LOT OF THOUGHT and not just MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL HEMOPHILIA.

BTW: It is so much better today than it was years ago. 30 yrs ago a radio cost $300-400. They were awful compared to today's radio and servos.

We would have to pack our rudders in foam so the rudder did not get bumped and strip the gears.

Boats cost a little more now but are SO MUCH BETTER, better materials CF DELRIN DYVINICIL to just name a few

Hardware: Pot aluminum, now hi grade machined aluminum and titanium

Also in the good ole days we raced one and at most 2 boats. Indy Unlimited it was ONE BOAT PER PERSON 120 contestants.

There are many more races now. In our region we had Atlanta Indy Unlimited and Southern Gentleman(New Orleans). There were 2 smaller races Memphis and Birmingham for a short period of time.

Thus we had to travel then for a major race and is no different now. Part of the reason for not filling out the various classes is again TOO MANY CLASSES AND MANY MORE RACES to attend and some clubs offering TOO MANY RACES which impact other clubs wanting to put on a race.

So in summary: What we have now in racing in IMPBA is pretty good. Maybe there could be some changes for improved racing BUT any changes need considerable thought on the ramifications of the change.

Doc

I am with you 100%. I enjoy the format we have.

Bill

 

[Brad Faubert]

Why don't they do a drop start like is offroad road racing, no slowing waiting for a clock no getting off plane, just drop on the green flag and go.

 

[Al Waters]

What I like is that the racing in different areas is different. I have raced full mill, half mill, quarter mill, and mandatory of those mills during the entire start clock. Committed lane at 5 seconds and committed lane at the exit of the right hand turn. On plane, off plane and all that stuff. Audio clock and floating clock. Nobody really likes change because it takes us out of our comfort zone. Nobody really likes coming in second place either so they are the ones who come up with rule proposals to give them a better shot at the winners.

Two things I have discovered in my model boating years. The guys who beat me were always willing to help me with my boats to make them better. There have been many but Jerry Crowther in Nitro and Dale Roberts in Gas come to mind first. They were also willing to sell me their winning boat complete at a fair price at any time. Granted that gives me a winning boat but that doesn't give me lane one.

Do I want a rule that will give me lane one or should I practice and learn how to get lane one. Since only one boat can have lane one, I learned how to race when I am any of the other boats when lane one is not available. I feel that I should work for it and it not be handed to me. More power to those that have the better running boats and can get lane one. They are reaping the benefits of their time and expense. I just need to work harder to be like them.

For those who feel that they don't have a chance against those that always win and get lane one, maybe the Stock mono, Crackerbox, or Jersey Skiff which I think are a little more forgiving for those who want lane one might be the way to go. And I have all three of those boats for when that day comes when I get tired of getting beat by those better than me.

I went to race in Pecos in D7 recently (I reside in D19) because a lot of their boaters support our races. They did something that I had not seen before at a district race. Similar to what some of the big one off races do with the Winner Take All heats.

It was not a large race but it was fun and it was different. They awarded trophies to first and second place to each class. Jay Stone and David Wale handled that so you know that they were nice trophies. Any class that had two or more heats, took the top six boats in points and had a Winner Take All race for an additional first place trophy. When I had a good day in a particular class, I still never took first place. However, there were a couple of classes that I dumped a heat and still made the top six so I had an additional shot at a trophy. For those who may be concerned where winning is important, they provided those opportunities at their race. Overall points for the day and a Winner Take All heat.

Where my weekend thrill came to pass at this race win or lose was who I raced against. It seemed like every heat I was in, I raced the likes of Dale Roberts, Jerry Wright, Lenny Blake, David Wale, Jerry Roberts, and or Jay Stone (and there were a few others). Now that is racing. Do I want a rule that will give me a better chance with those guys other than straight up head to head racing? I would rather try and beat them with my boat and my driving skills (or lack there of) one on one. The additional race just made it that much more fun.

Thanks,

Al Waters

 

[John Finch]

Lots of good discussion here. at the beginning of this thread some blame went to the board members of the two national organizations. Now, after reading all the ideas and suggestions as well as the backlash from these suggestions.... if the Board jumped at every suggestion we would be a deeply troubled organization. The bottom line is as some already said.........it's not the fault of the BOD or our race format. I do agree that money is an issue, too many classes are an issue, but the state of model boating is not because of the BOD. I was a board member in IMPBA and I saw a lot of board members who kept things on track for the membership. There are reasons that there are drawn out procedures to make rule changes on a national basis. Bottom line if you take in what was said many times......... It is us modelers at the local level who are responsible for welcoming new boaters into our community. At the lake, on the web, or wherever we see interest from a new potential boater. Racer or sport boater, this is not just a racing sport. It is a hobby where we can build models, design our own models, chase records, learn and build engines, and also heat race if we want. Racing is not required to enjoy the hobby, although I do like racing. That is what drew me from model airplanes to boats. I like the " must be on plane at the start " Idea the best. It is like Doc said, one change at a time. And that one is the easiest and makes the most sense. We can always try that at local races and see if it is worth bringing to the board. In any case, changing something that has worked for many years takes a lot of thought.

John

 

[RC 90 Boat]

That is why I like rc model boats all age groups 18 years old or 70 years old, you can heat race or just do sport running test and tune, some guys just like building wood boat kits, nitro engines gas engines or brushless electric. There is something for everybody, I personally enjoy the nitro engines. Rc 90 boat

 

[WAYDE BLOEDORN]

These suggestion on this forum are very basic and actually are the same rules used by the full size racing series U1. Lane is picked for you by race control and boats must be on plane at the start and faster boats advance to final. The only difference is we race clockwise they race counter clockwise. The lane one thing in our District is just an observation and the year end standings reflex who uses it to there advantage and that's racing some say but if you give Jimmy Johnson or Lewis Hamilton P1 every race weekend and get the clean air advantage it a pretty boring race from that point. Change is good and worth a try sometime if it doesn't work go back to the old way

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[Hydro Junkie]

These suggestion on this forum are very basic and actually are the same rules used by the full size racing series U1. Lane is picked for you by race control and boats must be on plane at the start and faster boats advance to final. The only difference is we race clockwise they race counter clockwise. The lane one thing in our District is just an observation and the year end standings reflex who uses it to there advantage and that's racing some say. Change is good and worth a try sometime if it doesn't work go back to the old way

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Actually, lanes haven't been picked for many years in H1. Same thing for the .1 GPM penalty for winning a regatta. Both were found to be DETRIMENTAL to the sport since the drawing for lanes was based on qualifying speeds, fastest driver picking first