Rudder Length and Strut Height

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Ian Inverarity

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2002
Messages
2,662
Has anyone experimented with rudder lengths on Seaducers for trimming the boat on the straights? I am thinking of raising the strut on my boat but using a longer rudder so that the boat doesnt run too loose in the straights.

Ian.
 
Has anyone experimented with rudder lengths on Seaducers for trimming the boat on the straights? I am thinking of raising the strut on my boat but using a longer rudder so that the boat doesnt run too loose in the straights.
Ian.
The strut adjustment is the main tuning tool. If you raise the strut you will also effect the boat in the corners. if you need less drag run a 40 rudder. if you need more drag run a 60-90 rudder blade. If the engine is located properly it should run well with the strut @ 1/8 off the bottom & perfectly straight
 
Has anyone experimented with rudder lengths on Seaducers for trimming the boat on the straights? I am thinking of raising the strut on my boat but using a longer rudder so that the boat doesnt run too loose in the straights.
Ian.
The strut adjustment is the main tuning tool. If you raise the strut you will also effect the boat in the corners. if you need less drag run a 40 rudder. if you need more drag run a 60-90 rudder blade. If the engine is located properly it should run well with the strut @ 1/8 off the bottom & perfectly straight
Joe,

The aim is to change the handling in corners, I want the boat to run wetter in corners with a particular prop I am using.

Ian.
 
Instead of running a longer rudder, use a piece of radio box tape trailing behind the rudder, different lengths cause different drag.
A trick I've seen Jerry use before.

Rick

Then this is you- just dont cover the water inlet - :blink: :blink: :blink: :eek:
 
Ian;

Have you tried kicking the rudder in or out? Kicking the rudder out tightens the boat in the turns. Kicking it in raises the boat in the turns. Doesn't take much.

Ed
 
Ed,

I have tried changing the rudder angle before on different boats but not on this boat. With the current strut depth the whole boat gets lifted out in turns too much and doesnt key in well enough to turn as I like in rough water. It seems with Seaducers that the deeper the strut is, the looser the boat runs in turns, the opposite effect of strut depth in the straights. Kicking the rudder back may help, I will try it!

Ian.
 
Has anyone experimented with rudder lengths on Seaducers for trimming the boat on the straights? I am thinking of raising the strut on my boat but using a longer rudder so that the boat doesnt run too loose in the straights.
Ian.
The strut adjustment is the main tuning tool. If you raise the strut you will also effect the boat in the corners. if you need less drag run a 40 rudder. if you need more drag run a 60-90 rudder blade. If the engine is located properly it should run well with the strut @ 1/8 off the bottom & perfectly straight
Joe,

The aim is to change the handling in corners, I want the boat to run wetter in corners with a particular prop I am using.

Ian.
If you want the boat to stay hook up in the corners & turn hard, Push the strut to the bottom of the hull.( this test will tighten the boat up to the max) If a boat runs too loose all the way around the course? I would look at this...... 1st make sure the strut is set to spec 1/8 off the bottom,(NO ANGLE) make sure you have the correct prop?..(x Octura props work best of seaducers)is the engine located to spec? if all this checks out. Make sure the rudder blade is NOT BEND. I run 140 plus std size servos on 6 volt in the 42inch boats 200 plus in the 44inch boats. Also make sure there is No slop between the radio box & the hull. Shim it up with carbon or G 10 if you have too. But it needs to be snug. Running the dual rate in the radio @ 60-65 percent should be good stroke for the rudder.
 
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IAN

CHANGE the RUDDER................!!! NON- TAPERED, Plus what Joe has mentioned.

Also knowing what motor and size hull will help.
 
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Has anyone experimented with rudder lengths on Seaducers for trimming the boat on the straights? I am thinking of raising the strut on my boat but using a longer rudder so that the boat doesnt run too loose in the straights.
Ian.
The strut adjustment is the main tuning tool. If you raise the strut you will also effect the boat in the corners. if you need less drag run a 40 rudder. if you need more drag run a 60-90 rudder blade. If the engine is located properly it should run well with the strut @ 1/8 off the bottom & perfectly straight
Joe,

The aim is to change the handling in corners, I want the boat to run wetter in corners with a particular prop I am using.

Ian.
If you want the boat to stay hook up in the corners & turn hard, Push the strut to the bottom of the hull.( this test will tighten the boat up to the max) If a boat runs too loose all the way around the course? I would look at this...... 1st make sure the strut is set to spec 1/8 off the bottom,(NO ANGLE) make sure you have the correct prop?..(x Octura props work best of seaducers)is the engine located to spec? if all this checks out. Make sure the rudder blade is NOT BEND. I run 140 plus std size servos on 6 volt in the 42inch boats 200 plus in the 44inch boats. Also make sure there is No slop between the radio box & the hull. Shim it up with carbon or G 10 if you have too. But it needs to be snug. Running the dual rate in the radio @ 60-65 percent should be good stroke for the rudder.
Joe,

As I say in a previous post, putting the strut down makes the boat ride looser in turns, I have tried this and didnt get the result I was after. The strut is set flat. The engine is located the distance specified from the transom in the instructions, strut and rudder and fin positions all as per instructions. I am not using an X series prop and dont have the issue with the X series props, my point is I want to change the boat to work better with a different prop which runs faster over a course than I could get with an X series. This prop has more lift, and lift at the strut of a Seaducer makes them run looser (and faster) thru turns. I have done what I can to reduce the lift of the prop but dont want to do more.

So I want to do what I can to make the hull run wetter thru turns. B)

Ian.
 
And Ian, when you work this out please pass the info onto me ;)

Need to defend my BotB TITLE!!!
 
It sounds like you have your answer, the prop lift is more than the hull design likes. Have you discussed this with Jerry? Have you considered adding trim tabs that will only be in the water when the hull is laid over in a turn? Since it appears that you're running more prop lift than the hull likes, you need a way to add down force in the turn without affecting the staight line running. The problem I see, is that the force from the tabs will be added to the bow, and not the rear. How about the old small bead of super glue trick at the transom (about 1 1/2~2" up from the keel to the chine). You only need it on the RH side.

Have you considered going up to the next size X series than you were running, and cutting it down to unload the engine while keeping the greater base pitch and reduced lift? Or maybe detongueing the original X series prop to remove the low pitch 'governor' at the front.
 
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Ian

Only one way to may that props work. No tabs.... But Jon is right also. You will be to take the lift out of that prop. That looks to be Andy Brown Alpha cut for a rigger...............?
 
Ian
Only one way to may that props work. No tabs.... But Jon is right also. You will be to take the lift out of that prop. That looks to be Andy Brown Alpha cut for a rigger...............?
Chuck,

Sorry, I should have clarified in my ealier post, the prop in the pics isnt the one I am having problems with. That is a locally (Australian) made prop that works very well on 90/100 Seaducers called an AL1, and is used by many of the competetive 90 mono racers in Australia in preference to X series props. It handles very well, but I run a short pipe length and this prop is a bit difficult for my setup to pull. B)

Ian.
 
It sounds like you have your answer, the prop lift is more than the hull design likes. Have you discussed this with Jerry? Have you considered adding trim tabs that will only be in the water when the hull is laid over in a turn? Since it appears that you're running more prop lift than the hull likes, you need a way to add down force in the turn without affecting the staight line running. The problem I see, is that the force from the tabs will be added to the bow, and not the rear. How about the old small bead of super glue trick at the transom (about 1 1/2~2" up from the keel to the chine). You only need it on the RH side.
Have you considered going up to the next size X series than you were running, and cutting it down to unload the engine while keeping the greater base pitch and reduced lift? Or maybe detongueing the original X series prop to remove the low pich 'governor' at the front.
Jon,

I agree that the prop lift is more than the hull likes, but the prop laps the fastest of all my props so I want to change the hull to suit it. I havent discussed this with Jerry.

I hadn't considered adding a trim tab, interesting idea! I am going to try kicking the rudder in and out to see what effect that has with adding and removing lift at the transom.

I did try an X467 but my prop of choice until recently was a stock Propshop 6516/3. This worked very well but had a specific handling problem in the wake of other boats related to being a 3 blade. A cut down 7016/3 was indeed faster but harder to pull and a little more unsettled.

Ian.
 
Before you add the tabs, you could try the CA glue trick. It works really well; basically adds differential hook to the very rear of the hull. It it doesn't work, you can dissolve the CA with Nitro without hurting the gelcoat.

I also saw in your pics where the rudder is kicking back after a run. You really need to get that fixed. The rudder should not move during your run. the kick back could be causing you to get loose in the turns. You can try putting a 4-40 set screw that lines up with the small brass shear screw in the front of the blade. When tightened against the shear screw the set screw will limit the kick back allowed, but still allow the shear screw to do its job. It is like a fine adjustment screw.
 
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Ian,

I'm afraid you are into an are into an area where nobody has gone before. If you like the straightaway speeds of that prop but don't like the way the boat corners you are probably going beyond the capabilities of the hull to heat race it. I personaly set my Seaducers up to run as well as I can make them run in heavy traffic and finish every heat. When I run them on smooth water by themselves they look like they are pulling an anchor around.

Hope you can make it work and keep us informed of any progress.

Scott

PS: If your rudder is kicking back like that after a run, get a bigger wrench to crank that sucker down.
 
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