Perry Pump Vs. Pipe Pressure

[jetpack]

I would like to hear what people think of running a Perry pump verses running tuned pipe pressure.

 

[HendricX]

Perry-pump :

You'll have to make (drill/tap) a pressure-nipple on the engine.

You have to know how much fuel the engine is using ,

setting the pump-capacity of the Perry-pump is a painstaking job.

Another thing that can go wrong/break.

Been there.. done that . I'm NOT a fan.

Pipe-pressure :

You'll have to make (drill/tap) a pressure-nipple on the pipe and tank.

No pre-setting , just use a small-diameter (2mm - 5/64") silicone-tubing.

 

[dwilfong]

Perry-pump :
You'll have to make (drill/tap) a pressure-nipple on the engine.

You have to know how much fuel the engine is using ,

setting the pump-capacity of the Perry-pump is a painstaking job.

Another thing that can go wrong/break.

Been there.. done that . I'm NOT a fan.

Pipe-pressure :

You'll have to make (drill/tap) a pressure-nipple on the pipe and tank.

No pre-setting , just use a small-diameter (2mm - 5/64") silicone-tubing.

I have bought a perry pump and a perry mixture control. The mixture control dose not have a needle to preset so you have full control of fuel flow with the radio. the setting on the pump is for fuel pressure. Have not run the boat yet . would also like some advice from some on that has used this setup.

 

[mikeferretti]

Perry-pump :
You'll have to make (drill/tap) a pressure-nipple on the engine.

You have to know how much fuel the engine is using ,

setting the pump-capacity of the Perry-pump is a painstaking job.

Another thing that can go wrong/break.

Been there.. done that . I'm NOT a fan.

Pipe-pressure :

You'll have to make (drill/tap) a pressure-nipple on the pipe and tank.

No pre-setting , just use a small-diameter (2mm - 5/64") silicone-tubing.

I have bought a perry pump and a perry mixture control. The mixture control dose not have a needle to preset so you have full control of fuel flow with the radio. the setting on the pump is for fuel pressure. Have not run the boat yet . would also like some advice from some on that has used this setup.

To all: I tried the Perry Quote"" Regulating Pump" Unquote,many years ago, and I thought it was virtually USELESS !!!!

Too Much Fuel Pressure, and Volume at low, and mid speeds, with a linear reduction in both as R.P.M.s are increased. Just exactly opposite of what is needed.

However, I have been running successfully for many years the Perry "Oscillating" Pump. This runs from the vibration of the Engine. No holes are needed to be Drilled into your engine with this ONE!!! Sweet !!! With the Vibration Pump Fuel Pressure, and Volume are exactly what is needed everywhere on the R.P.M. Band, and all throttle settings. It will richen up your fuel mixtures. They will have to be re-adjusted. Are you running an InBoard, or OutBoard??? You did NOT say! If you are running an inboard, I do Not see any need to run a pump.......... Just pipe pressure should be fine with the larger fittings... I am running a K&B 7.5 C.C. Outboard. I am running both the Pump, AND Pipe pressure! Here is why, the newer carburators that K&B has come up with recently for the 7.5 C.C. OutBoards have very LARGE Bores! This means Lots of air to the engine, and resultant Speed, how ever, almost no "Venturi Effect", or in layman's terms, fuel draw. With an Outboard, the CenterLine of the Carburator is Well above the fuel tanks! This goes against one of the main RC set up rules: That the Carurator CenterLIne should Not be any more then 1/2 inch above the centerline of the fuel tank. Beware how ever that I have gone through 2 pumps this year. These are $30 a piece here in the U.S. There definately seems to be a limited amount of run time on these before they give up their lives to the Speed Gods!!! If these ever go out production, many of us who run the outboards may have to go to a smaller Carburator! I am running the 11 C.C. Carburator that K&B came up with recently actually for the Red Head Air - Cooled 7.5 C.C. Pro Outboard. This Carburator has a thoat that is HUGE! Very fast, however, I am Absolutly 100% Positive that my boat could NOT run this Carburator with out the pump. I am in Line to take the Minnesota State Championship in my racing class. If wanted, I could try to post pictures in another reply. Also, on a final Note: Please be are that there are TWO versions of the Oscillating Pump: One for Smoke & Gas only, and one for Fuel. I am assuming you are talking about a nitro boat right??? Then make sure you get the one for "FUEL" Tower hobbies has them. Also, on the Internet, go to "PerryPumps".

Bye.

 

[jetpack]

I am running both inboards and outboards. The outboard could definetly use it. I dont like high mounted tanks, or hoppers. My K&B 3.5 with gold carb almost needs both.

I am wondering if those that have tried the standard fuel pump (non oscillating) are running the Perry diagram with the check valve and return line as the instructions outline???

There really shouldn't be too much pressure ever with this setup from what I can understand with using a return line past the carb. The pump only circulates the fuel, and forms a galley where the carb can draw from using a T fitting??

I'll be using Webra Dynamix carbs which require a pump. They are not a venturi style carb. Webra at one time even designed a backplate to fit their engines using the same style pump built into it??

 

[mikeferretti]

I am running both inboards and outboards. The outboard could definetly use it. I dont like high mounted tanks, or hoppers. My K&B 3.5 with gold carb almost needs both.
I am wondering if those that have tried the standard fuel pump (non oscillating) are running the Perry diagram with the check valve and return line as the instructions outline???

There really shouldn't be too much pressure ever with this setup from what I can understand with using a return line past the carb. The pump only circulates the fuel, and forms a galley where the carb can draw from using a T fitting??

I'll be using Webra Dynamix carbs which require a pump. They are not a venturi style carb. Webra at one time even designed a backplate to fit their engines using the same style pump built into it??

JetPack: now you have gone way over my head on all this. I have tried the check valve in the muffler back pressure line to the tanks. It created too much pressure. If some some kind of valve, or system was installed to "Bleed Off" the excess pressures, it maybe could work.... Also with out bleed off the check valves pressurized the tanks, causing flodding of the engine after it was shut off.

I recommend you still try to squeeze a header tank into your system, even if it is only a 1 ounce. Virtually every one uses them. The forces generated on a running nitro boat are very high, especially if you are going to be racing. This causes the fuel to "Slosh" away from the pickup, some time after the tank is less than full, invariably causing a "Flame Out". You may get 50 points for a good start. You will probably not need a header tank, if you are going to be using a "Bladder" style fuel tank, or some kind of tank that has baffles in it. Also maybe, this Seemingly very exotic system you have iin mind has some kind of mechanism for removing air bubbles........ On any conventional carburator, at full speed, even the tiniest air bubble will mean a "Flame Out". Again 50 points for your good start.

Mike.

 

[jetpack]

Perry's instructions outline a circuit that basically turns the pump into simply a circulating pump with a return line going back to the tank feed. The tank has a vent line with a check valve to not allow fuel to leave the tank, it only allows air into it.

The circulating line gets a T fitting, and a short length of fuel tube to the carb that it feeds off of.

If you try to run the pump straight line to the carb, it won't work. It develops too much flow, and makes the carb act as a fuel injector which it will fail at. This is what I was wondering if this is what was being tried with the people that didn't have good results.

I understand pipe pressure is probably the simplest form of getting fuel to the tank, but with me I have a set of Webras that cannont run without a pump due to the type of carb, and would even like to use a third channel on them. Here's the plumbing diagram that I worked out.

I havent tried running it yet, have no idea what luck I'll have.

With the osillating pump, that might be the better setup, but I have a few of the diaphram pumps I bought with the Webras. Is there any problems using a third channel mix with the osillating setup?

Getting back to the advantages and disadvantages, having to not install a pressure nipple in the pipe, and running a long line to a front mounted tank that can fill with water and spoil a tank of fuel if you flip. The pump system still has a vent that water can pass through to the tank but that line can be very short, and pointed or installed where water cant reach. Drawbacks of running the pump from case pressure is the case can let water into the pulse line to the pump which might have to be emptied before running it again, but at least it wont reach the fuel.

Another thing I can think of is the fuel delivery being better because the pump would be circulating all the time, even if the pickup is intermittent on a low tank.

 

[mikeferretti]

Perry's instructions outline a circuit that basically turns the pump into simply a circulating pump with a return line going back to the tank feed. The tank has a vent line with a check valve to not allow fuel to leave the tank, it only allows air into it.
The circulating line gets a T fitting, and a short length of fuel tube to the carb that it feeds off of.

If you try to run the pump straight line to the carb, it won't work. It develops too much flow, and makes the carb act as a fuel injector which it will fail at. This is what I was wondering if this is what was being tried with the people that didn't have good results.

I understand pipe pressure is probably the simplest form of getting fuel to the tank, but with me I have a set of Webras that cannont run without a pump due to the type of carb, and would even like to use a third channel on them. Here's the plumbing diagram that I worked out.

I havent tried running it yet, have no idea what luck I'll have.

With the osillating pump, that might be the better setup, but I have a few of the diaphram pumps I bought with the Webras. Is there any problems using a third channel mix with the osillating setup?

Getting back to the advantages and disadvantages, having to not install a pressure nipple in the pipe, and running a long line to a front mounted tank that can fill with water and spoil a tank of fuel if you flip. The pump system still has a vent that water can pass through to the tank but that line can be very short, and pointed or installed where water cant reach. Drawbacks of running the pump from case pressure is the case can let water into the pulse line to the pump which might have to be emptied before running it again, but at least it wont reach the fuel.

Another thing I can think of is the fuel delivery being better because the pump would be circulating all the time, even if the pickup is intermittent on a low tank.

JetPack: I am using third channel mixture control, but not mixed from the throttle channel. The mixing is not needed with the oscillating pump. This all sounds very interesting......... Even more complex than my set up........ How would you refuel the tank/s ????? I have a "Tee" connection on the line coming from my header tank to the pump for refueling. Also when I refuel I clamp off fuel line to the carb with a small hemostat to prevent flooding the engine...... maybe the regulating pumps have longer running life? At PerryPumps just now yours is also still available. Also my needle valve is from an OPS Carburator. It has a limited range of lean/rich, not full range like what sounds like what is needed for your system. It sounds like you already have all, or almost all the hardware. Try it!!! I would say reserve at least a full day and a gallon of fuel to get this sytem working at the pond......... If you do not already have everything some of these items may be hard to get.

Mike F.

 

[dwilfong]

Perry's instructions outline a circuit that basically turns the pump into simply a circulating pump with a return line going back to the tank feed. The tank has a vent line with a check valve to not allow fuel to leave the tank, it only allows air into it.
The circulating line gets a T fitting, and a short length of fuel tube to the carb that it feeds off of.

If you try to run the pump straight line to the carb, it won't work. It develops too much flow, and makes the carb act as a fuel injector which it will fail at. This is what I was wondering if this is what was being tried with the people that didn't have good results.

I understand pipe pressure is probably the simplest form of getting fuel to the tank, but with me I have a set of Webras that cannont run without a pump due to the type of carb, and would even like to use a third channel on them. Here's the plumbing diagram that I worked out.

I havent tried running it yet, have no idea what luck I'll have.

With the osillating pump, that might be the better setup, but I have a few of the diaphram pumps I bought with the Webras. Is there any problems using a third channel mix with the osillating setup?

Getting back to the advantages and disadvantages, having to not install a pressure nipple in the pipe, and running a long line to a front mounted tank that can fill with water and spoil a tank of fuel if you flip. The pump system still has a vent that water can pass through to the tank but that line can be very short, and pointed or installed where water cant reach. Drawbacks of running the pump from case pressure is the case can let water into the pulse line to the pump which might have to be emptied before running it again, but at least it wont reach the fuel.

Another thing I can think of is the fuel delivery being better because the pump would be circulating all the time, even if the pickup is intermittent on a low tank.

JetPack: I am using third channel mixture control, but not mixed from the throttle channel. The mixing is not needed with the oscillating pump. This all sounds very interesting......... Even more complex than my set up........ How would you refuel the tank/s ????? I have a "Tee" connection on the line coming from my header tank to the pump for refueling. Also when I refuel I clamp off fuel line to the carb with a small hemostat to prevent flooding the engine...... maybe the regulating pumps have longer running life? At PerryPumps just now yours is also still available. Also my needle valve is from an OPS Carburator. It has a limited range of lean/rich, not full range like what sounds like what is needed for your system. It sounds like you already have all, or almost all the hardware. Try it!!! I would say reserve at least a full day and a gallon of fuel to get this sytem working at the pond......... If you do not already have everything some of these items may be hard to get.

Mike F.

I am setting up my boat with aK&B 7.5 IB with a rear drum roter. I have a K&B .450 carb with the low speed disk. I am going to use the perry pump set up with the returne line to tank with a check valve in line to tank and a refueling tap on feed line to pump to isolate carb and pump when refueling. I am going to try the perry in flight fuel control valve. Has any one used this fule control valve befor????

 

[jetpack]

Many airplane guys use it sucessfully. I have a couple too I'll be trying. Even though it is made of carbon-filled plastic, it seems to be very well made, and blowing through it, seems to have a good range.

Here's what a couple other guys are trying as far as the circuits. They show how they are re-fueling. I can't say how well the circuits themselves work.

Lots of people seem to be having a hard time figuring out what works best in their setups...

One thing that is very odd, and seems to add to everyones confusion including mine, is Perry Aeromotive sells both products...the pump and the control valve...but never explains how to use them in conjunction with each other...LOL!!! That drawing that I posted from myself is the only way I could think how to go about it without bad effects. What Mike said before, I best set aside a full day of testing and a jug of fuel.

dwilfong, do you have a set of instructions for setting the control valve? If not I can post it...

 

[dwilfong]

Many airplane guys use it sucessfully. I have a couple too I'll be trying. Even though it is made of carbon-filled plastic, it seems to be very well made, and blowing through it, seems to have a good range.
Here's what a couple other guys are trying as far as the circuits. They show how they are re-fueling. I can't say how well the circuits themselves work.

Lots of people seem to be having a hard time figuring out what works best in their setups...

One thing that is very odd, and seems to add to everyones confusion including mine, is Perry Aeromotive sells both products...the pump and the control valve...but never explains how to use them in conjunction with each other...LOL!!! That drawing that I posted from myself is the only way I could think how to go about it without bad effects. What Mike said before, I best set aside a full day of testing and a jug of fuel.

dwilfong, do you have a set of instructions for setting the control valve? If not I can post it...

called perry pumps and talked with them about using VP-30 pump with VP-IMO-05 in-flight mixture control. Thay told me that you should not need to use a return line to tank just run the line from pump to control valve. thay also said that the pump and valve should flow enough fuel to run up to a.90 engine

 

[jetpack]

Well, THAT is sure good news. No return line, T-Fittings and all that garbage to deal with. Good hearing it straight from Perry. Thanks for giving them a call. B)

 

[dwilfong]

Well, THAT is sure good news. No return line, T-Fittings and all that garbage to deal with. Good hearing it straight from Perry. Thanks for giving them a call. B)

thay told me to give them a call and let them know how it works. This was the first time thay have heard of it being used on a boat.