New graupner 700 BB 8.4 will rewrite the meaning of value

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Andrewg

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Jan 24, 2003
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Pic attached

The motor can looks excellent much more ventilation and better windings - like an SS1

at 5v rpm/v is 1489 (SS1 is 1425)

at 12 volts where we use it is 1540rpm/v

current draw 5 v 2.8 (Doug Robichaud measured his SS1 at 2.8 amps on 4 cells)

BUT at fastelectrics the leader in power speed and value is still $48.95

Andrew Gilchrist

fastelectrics.com

no BS - just honest value
 
James

an SS1 - gee i have heard they are just as fast

they look the same

they measure the same

but gee FDM says the SS1 is a unique motor and it sells for $65 vs $48.95 for the King of 700's
 
Hello Guys,

The SS1 is the cats keester and is a stronger motor than the new 8.4. Take that new 8.4 put it in a LSH and twist a 50mm prop for 10 laps and let me know what happens. If the motor smokes talk to Andrew.

Paul.
 
There is no challenge the 8.4 is 2/3's the price

it looks the same measures the same sounds the same hey its even run the same

walks like a duck etc etc tec ....

IMO the SS1 WAS a great marketing exercise and a lot of people bought it

Andrew

fastelectrics.com
 
Hello Guys,

There is no challenge or comparison. Andrew is basing his comments on 2 guys that say they where running for 8 to 10 minutes.(lmao) The motors aren't the same, period. The 9.6 and 8.4 look the same too, looks like a duck, etc.

Andrew, when YOU do the testing let us know, until then your just blowing smoke.

Paul.
 
Hi Andrew,This isnt cool! You have good products that sell on their own merrit.The SS1 was not a marketing ploy only a succesfull attempt to make something better.Any one can call Mabuchi and order custom wound motors as long as you are willing to buy a butt load of them at once.

Chriss was mearly trying to find the right wind for his turbo tranny when the LSH craze hit fueled by the short availability time before Michigan Cup.Things just fell into place from there.

In my oppinion the SS1 can still be improved but it was a big step in the right direction from a standard 700 BB.I know because I have done gobs of home work on sealed 700 can motors.Any one who has run an SS1 in a LSH realizes quickly that having to turn a 50 mm prop on a 24" Hydro needs improvement.If you were cleaver enough to order a lower wind motor to compete with the SS1,Good for you.It was the next step any how.You made the next logical change and have brought it to market.

That motor should sell on its own merrit once the real home work has been done on it,with out bashing any ones marketing stratagy or bussines practices.

So in a a 24" LSH hydro, how long will it run on what cells and what prop will it swing.Those stats are what will sell that motor.

Yes Andrew you stepped on my toes.Chris Fine is one of those guys that will not sell you anything untill he knows what you are going to use it for and any suggestions he does give are from hours of R and D work that he has done personally.

I know of many many times that customers have called on Chriss after having been screwed by another dealer and he has helped them and made life time customers by doing so.

This type of BS is below you.You also have a good reputation in this industry.Belittling a copetitors product publically is not the solution to moving your product.Hard numbers sell hardwear!

My 628 will be churning up the waters in Michigan this month in N2 and O mono.That is one solid boat.Your only competition in the US for this boat is BBY,RR and bandit.I will have solid numbers for you next month.

I luv ya man but this type of rederic just aint right.
 
Paul and Dennis

I stand by my comments

Kv, Io, mass and physical dimensions are the same.

I was offered the new 700's last year as I remeber 2-3 weeks after Chris started selling the SS1

The offer was made via an intermediary from the US Mabuchi distributor. I was spending money on other things at that stage. The minimum quantity was 50.

Dennis, please, if my free speech is infringed by it or you feel compromised there is no need to run that hull. I have enjoyed watching you you run it.

If my comments in anyway derided the SS1 that was unintentional I just think there is something abroad which is as good, if not the same thing. At the worst that means they are both good motors.

regards

Andrew Gilchrist

fastelectrics.com
 
Andrew,My concern wasn't with the motor.It does well and most folks are happy with it for that class...Untill something else comes along.My only problem was with the comment that folks fell for a marketing stratagy.

I just didnt believe it was a fair statement.

Fine Design goes above and beyond to insure that boaters are pointed in the right direction weather for sport or hard core rc racing.

If you have a better mouse trap,Bring it on.We LSH fans are ready for the next improvement.But you wont have to bash a competitors reputation to sell it.Send a motor to a racer comming to Michigan cup.I believe that the rules say it has to be a publicaly available motor that fits the 700 specs.If it kicks our butts Ill be in line with my VISA # ready.

Just as you do I also speak my peace even to those I consider friends.

I will run the 628 because it is a solid well built product.If it wasn't I certainly wouldnt throw it in at a national event.I just hope I am a good enough driver to do it justice! 8 months old and no cracks or dings and that transom has held up beautifully
 
Well we can go round and round bottom line is I still think its the same motor - happy to be proved wrong though cause then I have the silver bullet...

I am sure Chris will step up to the plate if I am wrong rather than asking this race team to chase me.

Andrew Gilchrist

fastelectrics.com
 
Hi Andrew,

It very well could be the same motor. For different reasons I hope it is not.

Here's the deal. When Chris had this motor made there were 4 options.

1. Can design. - the 8.4 and SS1 look like they share this

2. Brush compound. -There are several available options and the 8.4 and SS1 could share these as well. Chris had the best ones put in his.

3. Magnet compound. Again, the 8.4 and SS1 could share this component. Chris picked the newest and strongest available. I have the Neo and old 8.4 and the magnets aren't even close to being as strong as the SS1.

4. The armature. This is what would bother me. When Chris had Mabuchi build him this motor, the armature was custom wound for him. To get a job done like this he had to spend more money then I make in a year. In return he was guaranteed the exclusive rights to it and that it would NOT be sold under any circumstances to anyone other the Fine Design, countries included. I don't know if there was a time limit to this deal, but my guess is if it did, it would be longer then the 2 months you mentioned that it was offered to you.

Like I said, I hope the motors are different. If not, something wrong is at play.

I can see your side as I doubt you knew the background. The fact is, nobody else has stepped up the way Chris did to get this going. The wind and guage of wire on the SS1 was carefully thought out for the turbo trans nearly a year before LSH was even an Idea. I know that Chris was frustrated with how long they took to get produced, but in the end it worked out. By the time they were ready to build his motors he was able to choose the newer can, magnets and brushes.

Does this mean Mabuchi can't build a hotter motor? No. Just not the same as the SS1. If they did?????? Perhaps the new one is a wind more or less? I just hope it isn't the same.

All I know is the SS1 is WAY better then anything before it. If the new 8.4 is in it's league, then you've got something. Time to do some real testing!

My 2 cents, well, maybe 3.

Dick
 
All: we ran the two Taifuns again today (Larry and I). This time we did make sure to both use matched 2400 packs so we could effectively take that out of equation. I did realize that I am running Astroflight esc and Larry is running rc-hydros...but that should not have impact.

I hoped to feel a stronger advantage with my SS1...but again they felt pretty close. There were times when I felt I had a bit more....but others when I felt they were dead even. Bottom line is that I did not feel any advantage using SS1 over the new 8.4v in speed with this hull and setup for long runtimes (4+ mins). Larrys did feel much warmer than my SS1 after the run, even after his sat for a while (his coupler loosened....we think on a good size carp!!!).

I would choose the SS1 over the new 8.4v if given the choice (in stock classes), but not sure I would pay the extra $20+ for it though. I have a 8.4v on order...so I can do some more water testing an try for myself. Andy..please ship quickly!

As for the other comments above, I agree with Dennis, Paul, and Dick. I think better motors are a good thing for all boaters, and I certainly don't like to see our suppliers feuding. I really do hope that Mabuchi did not take advantage of Chris's investment without proper approval or without waiting proper time to release to general public. I am glad I will have both of them to run with.

Paul: not sure if your statement "(other racers claiming 8-10 min runs (lmao)" was just being happy that we are able to enjoy such phenominal run times in our sport boats, or if you were questioning the accuracy of my statement. I have not "clocked" the runs with the SS1 vs 8.4v but I do recall runs at last years fun runs with the SS1 on 3000 batteries in the 8 minute range (clocked by Ned's trusty stopwatch). I am assuming that my GP3300 packs (which offer at least another 1 minutes of runtime at 30amps)...that we could be in the 8-10 minute range for runtime. Full out sport racing with face boats, running full out for 8+ minutes......ANOTHER reason I love the 700bb motor class. By the way...we miss you in Batavia :'(

All else is good.

Ken
 
Ken

I recieved an email this morning from an experienced modeler of unquestioned integrity says he got 9 minutes 36 seconds from a OM 26 running 12x 3300 to an SS1

Same guy gets 5:26 out of an EV running 12*2400 to a 700 Neo 9.6v

I gather there is some throttle management is each run ie not WOT for full run.

The boats have been extensively tested usng GPS and stopwatch. both are propped for low 30's.

BTW no feud on my part I have an opinion based on the reported electrical mesurement of the motors and the comparative testing I have had feedback on. Thats it.

I agree with Dick, Chris ought to see his lawyers IF he has been ripped off he has a right to claim recompense.

Andrew Gilchrist

fastelectrics.com
 
They still look like something out of my $10.00, 12-volt air compressor! ;D
 
Ron

they should

the origins are in the cordless power tool market

Andrew
 
Hello Ken,

Paul: not sure if your statement "(other racers claiming 8-10 min runs (lmao)" was just being happy that we are able to enjoy such phenominal run times in our sport boats, or if you were questioning the accuracy of my statement.

What I was getting at is if the boats are setup to get that run time they weren't in race trim, in other words not propped to win in 10 laps. We did some good testing yesterday using 2400s and the SS1, spinning a 51mm prop the boat just made 10 laps with NO heat in the motor.

Paul.
 
Seen a scale model of a B-17 running 4 DeWalt cordless drill motors at "Bomber Field" once.
 
What I was getting at is if the boats are setup to get that run time they weren't in race trim, in other words not propped to win in 10 laps. We did some good testing yesterday using 2400s and the SS1, spinning a 51mm prop the boat just made 10 laps with NO heat in the motor.
Click to expand...
The Graupner Taifun is really funny. In stock trim (for P- SpecSport Hydro with straight shaft) we have tried proping up and down from the 42mm stock prop. The boat does not seem to perform any better with larger prop....and looses it with smaller ones. So even with 8+ minutes runtime it seems to be the best prop for that hull/motor combo. If anyone else knows any secrets...please share!.

What where you running th SS1 on yesterday? I must admit I think the only way to warm on up is leave it in the sun...or throw it in the oven. LOL
 
Hello Ken,

We where running a Viper and a UL1, both had straight shafts.

Paul.
 
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