Need a picture of bottom of 1972 Notre Dame

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Hydro Junkie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
5,729
Years ago, I started a thread about building two scale boats using Newton plan set 108. The plan was to build the 7325 U-25 Pay'N Pak and the 7612 U-30 Miss Prodelco. Life threw me a few curves resulting in the builds being put on the back burner with little more than the sponson insides and transoms started. Jump ahead a few years and I recently obtained the registration for the Pak and, instead of the Prodelco, the 7207 U-76 Cott's Beverage, a logical choise since I have my scale Muck Circus hull with an extra RCMC cowling. This lead to me dig out the parts from the build thread and going back to work on the boats. This now brings up the question how far do the air traps extend aft from the sponsons? I know on the Pak, the air traps stop at the bottom break but, so far, I haven't found any pictures showing the air traps on the Notre Dame or it's later incarnations. The sponson insides were cut using the same bottom profile as shown on the plans, running to the stern but, if possible, I'd like the boat to be accurate. It would be great if someone could post a picture or two

Thanks
 
Hey Mark,

Here's the only pic I've ever seen of the bottom of a 7207. And a couple showing the termination of the air trap.

CHEERS !!! Bob
 
Hydro Junkie said:
Years ago, I started a thread about building two scale boats using Newton plan set 108. The plan was to build the 7325 U-25 Pay'N Pak and the 7612 U-30 Miss Prodelco. Life threw me a few curves resulting in the builds being put on the back burner with little more than the sponson insides and transoms started. Jump ahead a few years and I recently obtained the registration for the Pak and, instead of the Prodelco, the 7207 U-76 Cott's Beverage, a logical choise since I have my scale Muck Circus hull with an extra RCMC cowling. This lead to me dig out the parts from the build thread and going back to work on the boats. This now brings up the question how far do the air traps extend aft from the sponsons? I know on the Pak, the air traps stop at the bottom break but, so far, I haven't found any pictures showing the air traps on the Notre Dame or it's later incarnations. The sponson insides were cut using the same bottom profile as shown on the plans, running to the stern but, if possible, I'd like the boat to be accurate. It would be great if someone could post a picture or two

Thanks
Click to expand...
WHY? Its a rc boat if your going to race it it needs changed anyway
 
Bob, that's exactly what I needed to see. Looks to me like the air traps stop at the same location as the recessed part of the transom did when the boat was first built. I wonder if everything aft of the traps was where the back of the hull was reworked to remove the recess and the traps weren't reinstalled. Two things I find interesting are where the bottom break is, at least a foot further forward than on the Pak and the difference in time between the two sets of pictures, the two on tilt shots low to flat tires and no rudder assembly telling me they are recently taken while the other two had to have been taken back in 1981 due to the fact that was the only year the boat ran as the Captran.

Mike, I never said I wasn't going to make changes. Considering how short that "trapless" section is, it's not going to matter much either way if I leave the trap as Roger drew it, remove it all together or make it more scale. Sounds like it's time to build and then do some serious testing :ph34r:
 
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SayMikey said:
Hydro Junkie said:
Years ago, I started a thread about building two scale boats using Newton plan set 108. The plan was to build the 7325 U-25 Pay'N Pak and the 7612 U-30 Miss Prodelco. Life threw me a few curves resulting in the builds being put on the back burner with little more than the sponson insides and transoms started. Jump ahead a few years and I recently obtained the registration for the Pak and, instead of the Prodelco, the 7207 U-76 Cott's Beverage, a logical choise since I have my scale Muck Circus hull with an extra RCMC cowling. This lead to me dig out the parts from the build thread and going back to work on the boats. This now brings up the question how far do the air traps extend aft from the sponsons? I know on the Pak, the air traps stop at the bottom break but, so far, I haven't found any pictures showing the air traps on the Notre Dame or it's later incarnations. The sponson insides were cut using the same bottom profile as shown on the plans, running to the stern but, if possible, I'd like the boat to be accurate. It would be great if someone could post a picture or two

Thanks
Click to expand...
WHY? Its a rc boat if your going to race it it needs changed anyway
Click to expand...
We had Ron Jones Sr. at our banquet a couple of years ago and he said " a model design won't work on a full size hydroplane and full size hydroplane will not work on a model". The power to weight ratio on a model is probably 4-5 times that of a real boat. Even some of the older scale hulls around don't work anymore when you plop a CMB in them compared to the K&B's they used to run. They are just kites with the added power and torque.
 
And a loud "AMEN" was heard above the silence of the crowd. I keep trying to tell them the same thing, Mike - but it falls on deaf ears. "Up, Up, Up and Away - Junior Bird man. " CHEERS !!! Bob
 
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Mark- the Notre Dame air traps are drawn properly on Roger's paint scheme for the 72 Notre Dame Hull. The length of the traps were changed multiple times as the hull changed hands over time as well. Not sure what the boat actually had for airtraps when it ran as the Cott's.
 
I'm surprised this thread came back to life as I figured it was a pretty much dead subject at this point until I get the boats on the water. That being said, it sounds like many of the boats from that era, try this and that to see what works. I know the Notre Dame started with recessed center to the transom and 5 foot PFD, unlike the 70 and 73 Paks and the 74 Valu Mart, all left Ron Jones shop with flat transoms, 4 foot PFDs, were 6" shorter, 4" narrower. Interestingly, all three of these boats were much more successful than the Notre Dame and, with the exception of Jim Lucero reconfiguring the 70 Pak to a rear cockpit, none of the three were significantly changed during their racing careers.
 
Dasboatman said:
And a loud "AMEN" was heard above the silence of the crowd. I keep trying to tell them the same thing, Mike - but it falls on deaf ears. "Up, Up, Up and Away - Junior Bird man. " CHEERS !!! Bob
Click to expand...
The CG on the big boats is very different as well. They are extremely tail heavy. The turbine and gear box are mounted just about as far aft as you can get it to keep the prop digging and not getting blown out of the water. If it were a scale model and the CG was the same, you could lift it at the sponson transoms and the back of the boat would stay on the boat stand until the boat was verticle. Ideally most scale models work best when they are just slightly tail heavy. If you pick it up at the sponson transoms the boat will have about 4-5 degree up angle on the bow. At least that is a good place to start. Kirk Maupin has about the best balanced boats I've ever seen. Somehow he has a set up that always has the prop planted and moving the boat forward like a bat out hell!!
 
I agree with mike my Wiesfields is a Valasco hull. The molds now owned by Brian Buass. It has no air trap behind the sponsons. This allows air to spill out and makes the boat handle well in rough water. The real thing tends to run there strut angle at 7 to 10 degrees where we run our boats with the strut almost flat with the sponsons at 2 to 3 degrees angle of attack when on (the board) a whole different world with the kind of HP were putting out. Greg
 
Greg, your Valasco is very similar to my Muck as far as the bottom goes. At this point, I'm just looking at having a backup in case something happens to the Muck since I already had a hull started and recently acquired a RCBC cowl for it. It will be interesting to see how the two hulls compare in performance considering that the Muck weighs in at over 15 lbs with just the running gear and engine installed with no other work done to it except removing the gel coat since I acquired it. As far as balancing, I know where the two boats need to balance out initially to keep them on the water. If all works out, I plan on having them both on the water before the end of the season so we can see how they compare to each other and the rest of the boats in the R/C U and UNW fleets. I don't expect them to keep up with Kirks boats, initially anyway, so if you guys see something that can be done to make them faster at that point, feel free to say something. Also, just want to say THANK YOU for the advice guys as I'm always looking for things to help me build faster boats. It's amazing how much can be learned from others just in a quick conversation between heats or post in a thread
 
Hey Mark,

Your Muck hull at 15 pounds with engine and hardware is VERY heavy. Is it filled with expandable foam?? What do you anticipate your boat will weigh ready to run, less fuel??

My Houston weighs 12# 10 oz, my 12 year old Oberto weighs 14# 2.8 oz. and a 23 year old U-4 I built, now owned by a Friend weighs 15# - less fuel. CHEERS !!! Bob
 
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Dasboatman said:
Hey Mark,

Your Muck hull at 15 pounds with engine and hardware is VERY heavy. Is it filled with expandable foam?? What do you anticipate your boat will weigh ready to run, less fuel??

My Houston weighs 12# 10 oz, my 12 year old Oberto weighs 14# 2.8 oz. and a 23 year old U-4 I built, now owned by a Friend weighs 15# - less fuel. CHEERS !!! Bob
Click to expand...
Yeh,,, But that 23 Y.O. 15# boat sure runs nice,,,

And the THANKS is always there my friend
 
Bob, yes, it's got expandable foam and plenty of lead in the sponsons. That's the way I got it and the only way to remove it is to try to open up the sponsons without destroying them, not a very good probability considering my glassing skills or lack there of. That's part of the reason for the wood version of the boat. I figure I can build it a lot lighter than what the glass one weighs in at. I already took between a quarter and half a pound off it by just sanding off the thick layer of gel coat it was laid up with so there isn't much more I can do to it to lighten it up.
 
Hey Mark,

That's to main problem with expandable, most likely Urethane foam - It's heavy, and gets heavier through time as it absorbs water, oil, fuel by products. Used to be the norm, but pool noodles provides a much better option and can be replaced when it becomes funky.

We had a Friend years ago that ran Roger's framed 7206 plan hulls (modified) as Northwest Tank Service - he had a number of them.One of Steve's framed hulls with no hardware or paint, weighed more than our WOFs, ready to run, less fuel. CHEERS !!! Bob
 
I wouldn't use the two part foams either for that very reason. I've also seen hulls split due to the stuff expanding while sitting in the sun. As far as the Muck goes, I have a pool noodle ready to be sliced and diced after I get it painted so no problem there. The wood hulls, on the other hand, won't be getting foamed unless I cut up a chunk of blue insulation I have in the garage and stuff it in before putting the deck on
 
Just had a thought, does Brian actually build the ND/Weisfields hull or does he just have to molds at this point?
 

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