IMPBA noise rule & dB meters

[Geraghty]

I sure didn't like hearing about the event you had to endure Rod but where man, machine and devices

come together, mistakes are often made.

I was just wondering that if the db devices were in place and operating when open water as going on?

Having never participated in a National Event, I'm somewhat ignorrant of that particular aspect.

I seems to me that allot of the offending boats could have been caught right there and many test readings

could have been done to reveal any inaccuracy's before it cost someones standing in the actual event.

Just a thought I had to type.

Hindsite is "always" 20-20.I don't know if the DB meters were up and running in open water.I never asked.

I am not now or was I ever upset about being DQ'd.

If I was too loud ,I was too loud and that was the end of that story.The big question being asked here......was I really to loud or do we have a problem with our surveillance and testing procedures??

What became apparent the second and third day was maybe,just maybe the BOD's decision to execute me so quickly wasn't a good decision.It is still not definitive.In actuality it really doesn't matter.That is just water already gone by under the bridge.

Cest le' Vie.......The bottom line is,I am not irritated with anything or anyone.I still had a great time and the Margaritas and Strawberry Daquris[sP] were great.

I am happy however to see that.....What happens in Evansville "doesn't" stay in Evansville. This needs to be done.

This is what I think is going to be the result of all this.....

1.The noise rules will survive and be tweaked and massaged to insure that they are applied fairly across the board.I.E. distance from the water,height off the water[with-in reason]and maybe even a box built around the DB meter to isolate them from outside influences.Who knows?I do know there has been a committee formed by the BOD to research this mess and submit recommendations to the membership for approval.Until then we need descretion,patience and common sense by everyone until we get this sorted out.

2.When Randall Thomas repairs the calibration standard,probably all club and individual DB meters should be sent to the keeper of that calibration standard and "all" meters be calibrated to that one standard.I don't believe we really care if our meters are really calibrated at 89 or 90 or 91 DB's as long as they are all the same.The Radio Shack DB meters will work just fine for our purpose just as long as they are all calibrated the same.Maybe the standard could come to the Internats every year and meters could be checked at that time.If all meters are calibrated to that one standard,the +/- 2 DB@114DB variance of the RadShack meter really doesn't come into play.The RadShack meters are inexpensive and there is no excuse why everybody shouldn't have one in their toolbox if they are going to play this game.

3.I personally believe we have to take care of our membership ourselves internally without counting on any help from any manufacturers. We just don't have the numbers to entice manufacturers to become involved in our politically pissen matches.

4.From what I saw this last week in Evansville one thing I know for sure,everybody will sure be going back to work making their boats quieter.This was definitely a wake up call for those boaters living on the edge of the noise rules.Jumping up and down throwing a hissyfit just ain't gonna work anymore.

If they ever plan to attend another Internats they had better start paying serious attention to the noise their boats put into the atmosphere.This also includes yours truly.I had no idea I was even close to the edge but I can tell you this,the next time you see my .20 mono in action ,you will see it but you sure as hell are going to have to pay attention to hear it.

 

[Mark Bullard]

I am the second person that was DQ from a class. F hydro class with K 90's and pipes with internal stingers that has been under at every race that I have been to in the pass two years. I was running at 96 to 98 db in Evansville. I did everything to get under until the point that I hurt a piston & sleeve. I even went as far as placing 3/4" silicone tubing off the pipes to the right side of the struts cut about 1" from above the water at the props. Still hit 96db. This was on Sunday and on Monday I was asked to make a bi run right after the drivers meeting. Still hit 96db with nothing on the end of the pipes except the internal stingers. I was tolded by the CD that I have never tried to quiet my boats and was trying to skirt the rule and have never bought a quiet pipe.

I wrote a proposal to suspend the present rule for 10 months to work on this problem and formed a committee to carry it out. I submitted this to the board in the board meeting and it died on the table with no second. Another board member made a proposal to take part of my first proposal of forming a committee and it passed but no one would head up the committee so it died on the table. Of course I voted no for the second proposal because by this time my blood pressure was blowing out of my head.

This board is made up of a lot of small boat runners and it was very clear that some of the board members do not care about the noise problem because they got their 92db limit and it does not affect them.

Am I mad, yes because I have spent a lot of money to go to the Internats only to have it blown up in my face.

Why did this happen. The problem was discovered on Friday and Saturday. There are some very bad technical problems with the lake. It is like a giant bowl. With the rocks all around the lake and the tall buildings and then all of the tents and trailers. This trapped the sound and would not let it out and this is why we saw such high readings plus the fact that the meters were out of calibration.

Also this rule that we have now was proposed by a manufacturer or a distributor what ever you want to call it. And their own boats were over the db limit depending on how well the boats were running. But since they were a large sponsor they were over looked.

I am still going on with testing on this problem and I have the committee to work on this and these are good racers and concerned racers. We will fix this problem and are working on it now.

Mark Bullard

District 5 Director

 

[Bart Drieghe]

Okay ,

Here i go .

Dave Marles has mentioned alot already , still some do not believe it .( i dunno why though , i just don't see the point in reinventing the wheel as we europeans are 12 DB LOWER than you guys )

Well , let me tell you this , There was a race last weekend ( national event , Belgium ) where the DB limit IS 80 DB , not only by NAVIGA but also by the CITY !!!! . ( and believe me , they are standing ( city) with THEIR DB meters

We( Belgian federation) have a DB meter that gets checked on regular basis and is kept by ONE person .

3.5 CC : no issues at all

7.5 CC : besides one boat ( who didn't race at all , just did a sound check to know how much it was ) all were ok

15CC : of 9 boats , 2 had 80 DB , 4 had 81 , 2 had 82 and 1 boat had 83 .

A 3.5 can't make noise ? yea right , we once had to stop a 3.5 CC boat , it was making 87 DB .

Pipes :

Although to my opinion , not the ONLY cause , its one of the major ones though . So far , EVERY exhaust that came from the States was for us WAY TO LOUD , 90 DB and more .

Now for the exhausts itself , CMB and Dave's exhaust do reach the limit ( or get real close to it ) .

Dave's 3.5 cc boat is one of the most silenced one i have seen running around . Is it just the pipe alone , no it is not .

If you go to his site , you'll see that all his boats are FULLY covered , this already gets the db's down .

Noise can come from :

The carb

Shaft

Pipe

prop

boat itself

The idea of having a mfg make an exhaust ( wich gets approved ) is nice but only in Theory . Once somebody starts to work on his engine , raising the exhaustport and the same pipe will go over the limit . Any engine tuner will know this . And like i mentioned before , the boat itself can be an issue too .

We use in our Multiboats( FSR V) bulkheads , not only to make the boat stronger but it does help in silencing the boat too .

Like Don F mentioned ( and Andy B can proove it ) , a quiet boat doesn't mean it is slow . Time will have to go into getting the boats silenced without having loss in performance .

I'm convinced that once you start using some real exhausts and covering the boat completely and the Db's will go down . Achieving 92 DB should be rather easy

As for comparing Electrical boats with us, we have a boater who runs his 7.5 cc offshore boat and besides the starting and fueling up the boat , you wouldn't have a clue that he has an 7.5 CC engine in it . LOTS of time went into that boat because he wanted to proove that he could make a boat silent . And he prooved it . I'll try to get a picture of his inside of the boat , it might give some of you ideas to try . Again , its not ONLY the exhaust that does the trick , he COMPLETE set up of the boat does it .

Don't get me wrong , i'm no expert in getting the boats more silent , i simply have to face the fact that if i do not reach the 80 DB limit , i will be DQ , wether i drove 14 hours , 1200 km , took a flight to the place or whatever , it won't matter ( and it shouldn't matter anyways )

As for you guys , the spirit should be to get the boats more quiet , not really checking how long the calibration has been done to the DB meter or such things .

Keep the rules simple , Mention how far away from a certain place , wich device ( if possible , use the same DB meter ALL the time ) . Again , 92 DB should be easy to get . Put some time into it , your ears won't complain .

Best Regards ,

B

 

[steve wood]

mufflers this and DB meters that.... this will go on FOREVER..

GET IT IN THE HANDS OF THE MFGS....

Have the MFGs submit pipes to IMPBA (say one time a year with a 3 month window to get it approved)

Have an expert test it.. A team like John Finch, Ron JR and Steve Wood.. Or whomever...

Give it an approval or not.. (not sure how to do this but we are smart people we can figure it out)

Give the pipe a part number

Approved pipes are listed in the rule book

You run that pipe.. or any of the approved pipes and you toss the DB meter in the lake.

What you get is a stronger marine modeling through MFG support and less bickering at the pond.

Grimracer

Not a bad idea ............ maybe on paper ............... except as soon as someone starts "modifying" the pipes then what? How are you going to police that?? It will take longer to check suspect pipes than any dB test, be it stationary or otherwise. I can see the ruckus being raised already when you tell someone to remove the pipe for inspection because you think it's been tampered with. A way to spot check has to be there, no exceptions. As long as there are rules there will be people who will try to skirt, exploit or just plain cheat, sorry but that's the way it is when you have "competition". Also, did a manufacturer come up with internal stingers on marine pipes? No we did & in many applications they work extremely well but that is not a "manufactured pipe". Do you have any clue how long it will take a manufacturer to produce pipes to our needs, IF they do it at all?? NO pipe manufacturer is going to tool up for a new pipe unless it will be PROFITABLE!! What if a boater comes up with a way to get his boat to say 85dB but he made it himself, are you going to tell him he can't run because it's not a "manufacturer's" pipe?? We've already been down the "approved list" before & it don't work, that is why we are where we are now. The previous muffler rule stated an "approved in writing by the IMPBA Technical Committee" muffling device had to be used, I never saw one "approved list" ever but did see everything from legitimate mufflers to rubber balls hanging off the backs of pipes.

This nut can & will be cracked & I plan on starting stationary noise measurement tests this weekend to see how viable this test option is. B)

mikes got it right. as far as modifying the pipe is concerned, it would just be a tech issue with an approved plug to make sure no one has drilled the pipe and check to see if the welds have been tampered with. i see no problem here. and you are wrong about the manufacturers not tooling for a new pipe. i called steve cooper this winter and told him we were going to have a problem as there is no pipe that works on our set up that will pass the rules. he built new mandrels and bought a hydraulic press to custom build me two pipes to test. they aren't right yet but i think we are going in the right direction.

an approved list is the only fair way to make this work in the beginning. if someone wants to build his own pipe, thats fine, just send one to impba and get it approved. works for other race sanctioning bodies, and will work for us

steve

BLACKBIRD 21 IMPBA US-1 NATIONAL CHAMPION, CREW CHIEF

 

[SayMikey]

I am the second person that was DQ from a class. F hydro class with K 90's and pipes with internal stingers that has been under at every race that I have been to in the pass two years. I was running at 96 to 98 db in Evansville. I did everything to get under until the point that I hurt a piston & sleeve. I even went as far as placing 3/4" silicone tubing off the pipes to the right side of the struts cut about 1" from above the water at the props. Still hit 96db. This was on Sunday and on Monday I was asked to make a bi run right after the drivers meeting. Still hit 96db with nothing on the end of the pipes except the internal stingers. I was tolded by the CD that I have never tried to quiet my boats and was trying to skirt the rule and have never bought a quiet pipe.

I wrote a proposal to suspend the present rule for 10 months to work on this problem and formed a committee to carry it out. I submitted this to the board in the board meeting and it died on the table with no second. Another board member made a proposal to take part of my first proposal of forming a committee and it passed but no one would head up the committee so it died on the table. Of course I voted no for the second proposal because by this time my blood pressure was blowing out of my head.

This board is made up of a lot of small boat runners and it was very clear that some of the board members do not care about the noise problem because they got their 92db limit and it does not affect them.

Am I mad, yes because I have spent a lot of money to go to the Internats only to have it blown up in my face.

Why did this happen. The problem was discovered on Friday and Saturday. There are some very bad technical problems with the lake. It is like a giant bowl. With the rocks all around the lake and the tall buildings and then all of the tents and trailers. This trapped the sound and would not let it out and this is why we saw such high readings plus the fact that the meters were out of calibration.

Also this rule that we have now was proposed by a manufacturer or a distributor what ever you want to call it. And their own boats were over the db limit depending on how well the boats were running. But since they were a large sponsor they were over looked.

I am still going on with testing on this problem and I have the committee to work on this and these are good racers and concerned racers. We will fix this problem and are working on it now.

Mark Bullard

District 5 Director

I am the c/d that had to make all these hard calls,its my opinion and only an opinion that checking and enforcement of the noise rule has been lax by a lot of clubs. We as a club have been to several races over last fall and this year,and have found violators ar every race we have been to. One answer is lack of help putting on a race,if a club only has a few people helping D/B is the last thing on there mind. Most of the boats were under the noise limit,of the boats that were over most had nitro pipes,by now we all know internal stingers wont work on big bore motors. Im not inclinded to like the 92 d/b rule but when a boat makes noise beyond what our ears can stand we need to address it. We as members have adopted this rule lets work together to fix the noise and the rule. The funny thing dist 14 was the only one to vote against the rule as written and we were put in the middle by enforcing it. Some of you may say why did you not throw it out,its not my place. I went to the IMPBA prez and asked him to help me,he said we could have a waiver and after some thought changed his mind. He got the board to discuss it and almost all said keep the rule in place,i think this was the right thing to do. In the end we all need to figure out the solution and fix it along with some rules that are in need of tweaking,lets make it better and get rid of the gray areas Mike Schindler IMPBA 9112

 

[Steve P]

plus the fact that the meters were out of calibration.

Who and when determined the meters to be out of calibration???????

 

[Mark Bullard]

I am the second person that was DQ from a class. F hydro class with K 90's and pipes with internal stingers that has been under at every race that I have been to in the pass two years. I was running at 96 to 98 db in Evansville. I did everything to get under until the point that I hurt a piston & sleeve. I even went as far as placing 3/4" silicone tubing off the pipes to the right side of the struts cut about 1" from above the water at the props. Still hit 96db. This was on Sunday and on Monday I was asked to make a bi run right after the drivers meeting. Still hit 96db with nothing on the end of the pipes except the internal stingers. I was tolded by the CD that I have never tried to quiet my boats and was trying to skirt the rule and have never bought a quiet pipe.

I wrote a proposal to suspend the present rule for 10 months to work on this problem and formed a committee to carry it out. I submitted this to the board in the board meeting and it died on the table with no second. Another board member made a proposal to take part of my first proposal of forming a committee and it passed but no one would head up the committee so it died on the table. Of course I voted no for the second proposal because by this time my blood pressure was blowing out of my head.

This board is made up of a lot of small boat runners and it was very clear that some of the board members do not care about the noise problem because they got their 92db limit and it does not affect them.

Am I mad, yes because I have spent a lot of money to go to the Internats only to have it blown up in my face.

Why did this happen. The problem was discovered on Friday and Saturday. There are some very bad technical problems with the lake. It is like a giant bowl. With the rocks all around the lake and the tall buildings and then all of the tents and trailers. This trapped the sound and would not let it out and this is why we saw such high readings plus the fact that the meters were out of calibration.

Also this rule that we have now was proposed by a manufacturer or a distributor what ever you want to call it. And their own boats were over the db limit depending on how well the boats were running. But since they were a large sponsor they were over looked.

I am still going on with testing on this problem and I have the committee to work on this and these are good racers and concerned racers. We will fix this problem and are working on it now.

Mark Bullard

District 5 Director

I am the c/d that had to make all these hard calls,its my opinion and only an opinion that checking and enforcement of the noise rule has been lax by a lot of clubs. We as a club have been to several races over last fall and this year,and have found violators ar every race we have been to. One answer is lack of help putting on a race,if a club only has a few people helping D/B is the last thing on there mind. Most of the boats were under the noise limit,of the boats that were over most had nitro pipes,by now we all know internal stingers wont work on big bore motors. Im not inclinded to like the 92 d/b rule but when a boat makes noise beyond what our ears can stand we need to address it. We as members have adopted this rule lets work together to fix the noise and the rule. The funny thing dist 14 was the only one to vote against the rule as written and we were put in the middle by enforcing it. Some of you may say why did you not throw it out,its not my place. I went to the IMPBA prez and asked him to help me,he said we could have a waiver and after some thought changed his mind. He got the board to discuss it and almost all said keep the rule in place,i think this was the right thing to do. In the end we all need to figure out the solution and fix it along with some rules that are in need of tweaking,lets make it better and get rid of the gray areas Mike Schindler IMPBA 9112

Mike

I am not really trying to beat up on your or the club. You and the club did a very good job on the Internats. But I wanted to vent my fustrations and to clear the air on how thing happened. Now you say that you have spot check some of the races that you have been to and found violators at the events. Well after what I have seen on these meters this week I can see that you have. But whos right and whos wrong. I do not know myself and no one can say whos right and whos wrong right now. This is the problem and we will come up with a solution. As for as I am concern this past week is water under the bridge and it is not your fault or the clubs but I am sure that you do see a problem now.

Mark

 

[Chris Wood]

I am the c/d that had to make all these hard calls,its my opinion and only an opinion that checking and enforcement of the noise rule has been lax by a lot of clubs. We as a club have been to several races over last fall and this year,and have found violators ar every race we have been to. One answer is lack of help putting on a race,if a club only has a few people helping D/B is the last thing on there mind. Most of the boats were under the noise limit,of the boats that were over most had nitro pipes,by now we all know internal stingers wont work on big bore motors. Im not inclinded to like the 92 d/b rule but when a boat makes noise beyond what our ears can stand we need to address it. We as members have adopted this rule lets work together to fix the noise and the rule. The funny thing dist 14 was the only one to vote against the rule as written and we were put in the middle by enforcing it. Some of you may say why did you not throw it out,its not my place. I went to the IMPBA prez and asked him to help me,he said we could have a waiver and after some thought changed his mind. He got the board to discuss it and almost all said keep the rule in place,i think this was the right thing to do. In the end we all need to figure out the solution and fix it along with some rules that are in need of tweaking,lets make it better and get rid of the gray areas Mike Schindler IMPBA 9112

Mike we talked and i am not mad with you or your club.. I also understand it is out of your hands.. but on problem with ALL of this is i talked to multiple people that said I WILL NEVER COME BACK HERE TO EVANSVILLE.. i know it isn't your fault. but people tend to lean that way when they make a attempt and then still no good.. I was dissapointed with the president and his swaying one way and then the other.. alot of people left after that call was made and didn't find out till next morning and left them scrambling..

Rod hit it on the head.. Noise ins't the problem.. if it was why does nascar and nhra not have a problem getting cities behind them.. it is all about PROFIT.. if you was to put up a race for cash.. had a consetion stand to sell to people watching the race.. give a portion to the city. . we wouldn't be having this conversation. I have said it before, we don't lose ponds to noise.. we lose them to people that are in it for development and profit

just my opinon

chris

 

[Don Ferrette]

mikes got it right. as far as modifying the pipe is concerned, it would just be a tech issue with an approved plug to make sure no one has drilled the pipe and check to see if the welds have been tampered with. i see no problem here. and you are wrong about the manufacturers not tooling for a new pipe. i called steve cooper this winter and told him we were going to have a problem as there is no pipe that works on our set up that will pass the rules. he built new mandrels and bought a hydraulic press to custom build me two pipes to test. they aren't right yet but i think we are going in the right direction.

an approved list is the only fair way to make this work in the beginning. if someone wants to build his own pipe, thats fine, just send one to impba and get it approved. works for other race sanctioning bodies, and will work for us

Steve, you know as well as I do that no 2 applications of a given pipe & motor size will produce the same dB levels every time. As soon as you alter the timings of an engine you will in fact alter the sound pressure, been there, done that. There is no way you can certify that one particular pipe will be ok with every engine brand in a given size range either, ain't gonna happen. Also I can tell you right now I personally know 2 different welders who are so good at what they do that they could cut open a pipe, alter it, weld it back up, clean up the outside & you would not know it. Don't believe it? I've already seen it done as one of these guys cut open an Irwin muffled pipe, altered the baffling, lengthened the muffling can, welded it back & cleaned it up & nobody could tell by looking at it but were scratching their heads why his Irwin pipe was quieter but faster than their Irwin pipes. He still has that pipe & I still keep trying to buy it off him, he won't sell it even though he stopped racing boats. While I think the progress that the Coopers have made with quiet pipes is great (had them make me a special muffling can to add on a pipe I was testing) they are but just one pipe maker and not on the production scale of say Macs. And no offense to anyone but there is no way I will be a part of a rule proposal that specifically directs itself towards manufacturers who do what they do for a profit, that in itself is not proper. As for suggesting that someone who home makes a pipe waiting on the board to certify it? Please, would you want to wait 6 months or more for something you made get certified? And don't kid yourself thinking it would happen faster, it won't. Whoever the "group" would be to do certifications, those people have lives too & they ain't gonna be sitting around twiddling there fingers waiting to certify a pipe. And lastly these "other race sanctioning bodies" you refer to, they certify parts, NOT noise output. For that they still rely on dB readings. Not trying to get in a pissen match with you Steve as you make some really great stuff but this "list" approach won't fly. They couldn't do it when it was part of the previous muffler rule, why would this be any different?? :blink:

 

[Geraghty]

plus the fact that the meters were out of calibration.

Who and when determined the meters to be out of calibration???????

Take a deep breath and sit down........The meters were definitely out of calibration with "each other".The [2]meters that were being used to check the boats were not in agreement with Equis and I believe Bruce Jacobs meters and all were of the same manufacture.

As I understand,it Equis meter had just been calibrated with the IMPBA calibration standard.Equi sent the calibration standard home with Randall Thomas to see if the 4-6 DB descrepancy problem was with the standard or the meters.

We really don't know whos meter was funky but "all" the DB meters at the pond definitely did not agree with each other.

When we get the calibration standard checked for accuracy,the picture will become much clearer where the problem lies.

 

[Piston1]

Take the following into consideration. That calibration standard has to be calibrated periodically too.

 

[Don Ferrette]

When we get the calibration standard checked for accuracy,the picture will become much clearer where the problem lies.

EXACTLY!! This is step one, ya gotta be sure it's apples to apples. B)

 

[Mark Bullard]

If anyone has the ANSI standard S1.4 that they could kindly send it to me it would be a big help. All of the sites that I have been to charge $100.00 for the file. I need it for the calibration of the dB meters. As this is the standard for measuring instruments.

Mark

 

[AWaddle322]

If anyone has the ANSI standard S1.4 that they could kindly send it to me it would be a big help. All of the sites that I have been to charge $100.00 for the file. I need it for the calibration of the dB meters. As this is the standard for measuring instruments.

Mark

Mark On page 3 of the online owners manuel it tells you that this device will not meet ANSI S1.4 standard. What this device is realy intended to do is help you set up a stereo system in your home so that you can get the sound close (in this case as long as it is the same with this meter it does not matter).

Allen

 

[Piston1]

Mark, I might be able to help you when I get back to the office Thursday. I have access to many codes & standards, you know what I mean.

 

[Mark Bullard]

If anyone has the ANSI standard S1.4 that they could kindly send it to me it would be a big help. All of the sites that I have been to charge $100.00 for the file. I need it for the calibration of the dB meters. As this is the standard for measuring instruments.

Mark

Mark On page 3 of the online owners manuel it tells you that this device will not meet ANSI S1.4 standard. What this device is realy intended to do is help you set up a stereo system in your home so that you can get the sound close (in this case as long as it is the same with this meter it does not matter).

Allen

Allen,

I know that. But we are going to look at the standard.

Mark

Mark, I might be able to help you when I get back to the office Thursday. I have access to many codes & standards, you know what I mean.

I sure do. Thanks

Mark

 

[Grimracer]

mikes got it right. as far as modifying the pipe is concerned, it would just be a tech issue with an approved plug to make sure no one has drilled the pipe and check to see if the welds have been tampered with. i see no problem here. and you are wrong about the manufacturers not tooling for a new pipe. i called steve cooper this winter and told him we were going to have a problem as there is no pipe that works on our set up that will pass the rules. he built new mandrels and bought a hydraulic press to custom build me two pipes to test. they aren't right yet but i think we are going in the right direction.

an approved list is the only fair way to make this work in the beginning. if someone wants to build his own pipe, thats fine, just send one to impba and get it approved. works for other race sanctioning bodies, and will work for us

Steve, you know as well as I do that no 2 applications of a given pipe & motor size will produce the same dB levels every time. As soon as you alter the timings of an engine you will in fact alter the sound pressure, been there, done that. There is no way you can certify that one particular pipe will be ok with every engine brand in a given size range either, ain't gonna happen. Also I can tell you right now I personally know 2 different welders who are so good at what they do that they could cut open a pipe, alter it, weld it back up, clean up the outside & you would not know it. Don't believe it? I've already seen it done as one of these guys cut open an Irwin muffled pipe, altered the baffling, lengthened the muffling can, welded it back & cleaned it up & nobody could tell by looking at it but were scratching their heads why his Irwin pipe was quieter but faster than their Irwin pipes. He still has that pipe & I still keep trying to buy it off him, he won't sell it even though he stopped racing boats. While I think the progress that the Coopers have made with quiet pipes is great (had them make me a special muffling can to add on a pipe I was testing) they are but just one pipe maker and not on the production scale of say Macs. And no offense to anyone but there is no way I will be a part of a rule proposal that specifically directs itself towards manufacturers who do what they do for a profit, that in itself is not proper. As for suggesting that someone who home makes a pipe waiting on the board to certify it? Please, would you want to wait 6 months or more for something you made get certified? And don't kid yourself thinking it would happen faster, it won't. Whoever the "group" would be to do certifications, those people have lives too & they ain't gonna be sitting around twiddling there fingers waiting to certify a pipe. And lastly these "other race sanctioning bodies" you refer to, they certify parts, NOT noise output. For that they still rely on dB readings. Not trying to get in a pissen match with you Steve as you make some really great stuff but this "list" approach won't fly. They couldn't do it when it was part of the previous muffler rule, why would this be any different?? :blink:

Don.. no mention of the term DB is used.. Fellas you need to open your minds to this idea.. its not a bad one.. We are not coming up with anything new here.. it works in IFMAR and ROAR...

THINK ABOUT IT..

Grimracer

Grimracer

 

[piper_chuck]

mufflers this and DB meters that.... this will go on FOREVER..

GET IT IN THE HANDS OF THE MFGS....

Have the MFGs submit pipes to IMPBA (say one time a year with a 3 month window to get it approved)

Have an expert test it.. A team like John Finch, Ron JR and Steve Wood.. Or whomever...

Give it an approval or not.. (not sure how to do this but we are smart people we can figure it out)

Give the pipe a part number

Approved pipes are listed in the rule book

You run that pipe.. or any of the approved pipes and you toss the DB meter in the lake.

What you get is a stronger marine modeling through MFG support and less bickering at the pond.

Grimracer

So, you're against stock engines, but you would favor stock tuned pipes? Many of the objections you raised against stock engines could apply to stock pipes. It shouldn't matter how a person makes their boat quiet, as long as it's quiet. Like it or not, a DB meter is the instrument to determine if it's quiet or not.

 

[Bart Drieghe]

It shouldn't matter how a person makes their boat quiet, as long as it's quiet.

Amen !

 

[Grimracer]

Chuck.. Where in the world did you get the idea im so against Stock motor racing? .. Please do not put words in my mouth. Having said that im VERY much in favor of the Sport Tunnel Class.. Its easy to tech.. Just like a pipe rule might be....

Another problem is that RACERS ARE MAKING THE RULES... its a oxy moron if there ever was one..

All i can say is have at it guys.. when you find what you are looking for i hope you have not hurt the hobby. Chances are if nothing changes and you not driving a FE boat in the next 10 years your going to be part of a very small segment.

Grimracer

BTY.. has anybody paid any attention to nitro car racing lately? Go ahead.. Open a RC car mag… Nitro car racing has just about halted electric racing... Hum....