IMPBA noise rule & dB meters

[Joe Warren]

The problem is we have to many DAMB .............

That would be **** actually Chris.

No offense buddy, trying to inject some humor. I have great respect for anyone who lives through holding race events as I've been part of running races for many years including the 1999 Internats. The Evansville club is getting wronglyfully bashed for trying to uphold the rules to the best of their abilities & as Bill pointed out by some who don't hold races & have no clue what it's like trying to protect the sites they have. Anyone who thought there wouldn't be hurdles to overcome in getting this kind of rule in place is/was only kidding themselves but this, as any other hurdle, can & will be overcome. The noise rule is not going away, get used to it. And get used to the idea that the noise level limits will continue to drop, it is something we as boaters will have to come to terms with just like our European friends have had to do. If some of you that are so hell bent on fighting this put HALF the energy you are expending into working on seriously quieting your boats (NOT just squeaking in under the limit) as you do bitching you'd already be finding good solid answers. There are pipes needed to quiet these big motors down already out there & have been, with more on the way (I am testing new stuff from a pipe manufacturer as we speak). These boats need to be quieter & it is going to happen ...........................

Don CMDI has sold more pipes to IMPBA & NAMBA members than anyone on the market with the intent of lowering the Db`s. John`s Own 60-80-90 were running add on make shift mufflers on his parobolics to kept him racing Without a DQ. The Pond @ the 2006 Inernats was set up just like a Amphitheater for DB`s W/stadium seating( that would be where the meters were located) Do you or Do you not think the site was a problem????

 

[SayMikey]

The problem is we have to many DAMB .............

That would be **** actually Chris.

No offense buddy, trying to inject some humor. I have great respect for anyone who lives through holding race events as I've been part of running races for many years including the 1999 Internats. The Evansville club is getting wronglyfully bashed for trying to uphold the rules to the best of their abilities & as Bill pointed out by some who don't hold races & have no clue what it's like trying to protect the sites they have. Anyone who thought there wouldn't be hurdles to overcome in getting this kind of rule in place is/was only kidding themselves but this, as any other hurdle, can & will be overcome. The noise rule is not going away, get used to it. And get used to the idea that the noise level limits will continue to drop, it is something we as boaters will have to come to terms with just like our European friends have had to do. If some of you that are so hell bent on fighting this put HALF the energy you are expending into working on seriously quieting your boats (NOT just squeaking in under the limit) as you do bitching you'd already be finding good solid answers. There are pipes needed to quiet these big motors down already out there & have been, with more on the way (I am testing new stuff from a pipe manufacturer as we speak). These boats need to be quieter & it is going to happen ...........................

Don CMDI has sold more pipes to IMPBA & NAMBA members than anyone on the market with the intent of lowering the Db`s. John`s Own 60-80-90 were running add on make shift mufflers on his parobolics to kept him racing Without a DQ. The Pond @ the 2006 Inernats was set up just like a Amphitheater for DB`s W/stadium seating( that would be where the meters were located) Do you or Do you not think the site was a problem????

Stu Sorry you feel that way,The Evansville gang and myself as c/d ran the race by the book. The INTERNATS should be ran by the book.Most local races are not as is the case with our races,we dont enforce rules and let boats launch late,dont give lap pen for a 360 at our regular races. THIS WAS THE NATS the biggest week of the year, the rule book was followed and we did not turn our heads for anyone. Im tired of all you guys saying it was our site,it was our junk meters one was brand new. We will not fix the issue at hand by continuing to bad mouth the Evansville club . Back to the issue almost all the so called mufflers ad ons have no baffle in them. Most guys that buy a CMD pipe including myself drill it out. We all live close to the edge some too close. Lets all work toward a solution together and not rip the sport to pieces Mike Schindler 06 c/d

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Mike I've only been to 4 Internats but I can say without reservation it was the best ran race I've ever attended. You played the cards you were dealt regarding the db rules. You can never go wrong by playing by the rules.

Anyone that criticizes you & your club for the way you ran it should step up and offer to run next years race so everyone can see how it can be done better.

Allan, I think if we measured the boats at a short distance like a couple feet it would negate many of the things that affect the measurement. Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted to account for the change in distance.

 

[bzubee]

I agree with Joe K. and MIke it really is the guys that have never run an event like the Nats that should step up and host a race or any race for that matter.

 

[Joe Warren]

Mike I've only been to 4 Internats but I can say without reservation it was the best ran race I've ever attended. You played the cards you were dealt regarding the db rules. You can never go wrong by playing by the rules.

Anyone that criticizes you & your club for the way you ran it should step up and offer to run next years race so everyone can see how it can be done better.

Allan, I think if we measured the boats at a short distance like a couple feet it would negate many of the things that affect the measurement. Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted to account for the change in distance.

Joe K were you @ the Jackson TN nats for 2004-2005 internats. WE had 1 contestant that had a 95 Db reading. Randy Depree. He was warned HE did not draw another.

 

[piper_chuck]

Stu Sorry you feel that way,The Evansville gang and myself as c/d ran the race by the book. The INTERNATS should be ran by the book.Most local races are not as is the case with our races,we dont enforce rules and let boats launch late,dont give lap pen for a 360 at our regular races.

Ain't this the truth. A continuing theme throughout these discussions has been "I can run as loud as I want at my pond".

THIS WAS THE NATS the biggest week of the year, the rule book was followed and we did not turn our heads for anyone. Im tired of all you guys saying it was our site,it was our junk meters one was brand new. We will not fix the issue at hand by continuing to bad mouth the Evansville club .

We sure won't. We also won't fix the REAL problem by continuing to focus so much attention on measurement. The REAL problem that needs fixing is NOISE, not the measurement of it!

Back to the issue almost all the so called mufflers ad ons have no baffle in them. Most guys that buy a CMD pipe including myself drill it out.

And now some of the real facts come out. I've recently picked up a few new CMD pipes and I was told to do exactly this! I was talking to one long time boater who said he found that drilling the stingers actually made his boats slower! Wasn't this at least part of the reason for doing away with the muffler part of the noise rule? People discovered that it was too easy to comply with the wording of the rule (one must run a muffler) instead of the spirit, add a muffler to quiet your boat.

We all live close to the edge some too close. Lets all work toward a solution together and not rip the sport to pieces

Good advice. Hopefully we'll figure out that we need quieter boats, not rules that allow people to push noise to the limit.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

Mike I've only been to 4 Internats but I can say without reservation it was the best ran race I've ever attended. You played the cards you were dealt regarding the db rules. You can never go wrong by playing by the rules.

Anyone that criticizes you & your club for the way you ran it should step up and offer to run next years race so everyone can see how it can be done better.

Allan, I think if we measured the boats at a short distance like a couple feet it would negate many of the things that affect the measurement. Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted to account for the change in distance.

Joe K were you @ the Jackson TN nats for 2004-2005 internats. WE had 1 contestant that had a 95 Db reading. Randy Depree. He was warned HE did not draw another.

Yes I did go to the 04 Nats and you are dreaming if you think the boats were louder at Evansville than they were at Jacksonville.

 

[piper_chuck]

Yes I did go to the 04 Nats and you are dreaming if you think the boats were louder at Evansville than they were at Jacksonville.

Wasn't there a 3 db reduction in the max db level between these two events? It kind of goes without saying that Evansville should have been quieter than Jackson. Hopefully they will continue getting quieter.

 

[Joe Warren]

Mike I've only been to 4 Internats but I can say without reservation it was the best ran race I've ever attended. You played the cards you were dealt regarding the db rules. You can never go wrong by playing by the rules.

Anyone that criticizes you & your club for the way you ran it should step up and offer to run next years race so everyone can see how it can be done better.

Allan, I think if we measured the boats at a short distance like a couple feet it would negate many of the things that affect the measurement. Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted to account for the change in distance.

Joe K were you @ the Jackson TN nats for 2004-2005 internats. WE had 1 contestant that had a 95 Db reading. Randy Depree. He was warned HE did not draw another.

Yes I did go to the 04 Nats and you are dreaming if you think the boats were louder at Evansville than they were at Jacksonville.

Good point Joe Joe. the Db meter @ E-VILLE SAYS THEY WERE.............

 

[AWaddle322]

Mike I've only been to 4 Internats but I can say without reservation it was the best ran race I've ever attended. You played the cards you were dealt regarding the db rules. You can never go wrong by playing by the rules.

Anyone that criticizes you & your club for the way you ran it should step up and offer to run next years race so everyone can see how it can be done better.

Allan, I think if we measured the boats at a short distance like a couple feet it would negate many of the things that affect the measurement. Obviously the numbers would need to be adjusted to account for the change in distance.

Joe K were you @ the Jackson TN nats for 2004-2005 internats. WE had 1 contestant that had a 95 Db reading. Randy Depree. He was warned HE did not draw another.

Yes I did go to the 04 Nats and you are dreaming if you think the boats were louder at Evansville than they were at Jacksonville.

Good point Joe Joe. the Db meter @ E-VILLE SAYS THEY WERE.............

Some of you that dont believe there is a problem should read page 30 of september 2005 roostertail were John equi states that if the limit had been 92 dbs at the 2005 nats there would be 9 boats illegal. This means the number almost doubled from this years nats with 17 warnings.

Allen

 

[Grimracer]

Ok... lets say we FIX this DB issue...

Do you think its REALY going to FIX anything. OR.. do you think we will see the same bunch of guys and all there BS.. My boat was this..the meter was that.. the pond was this...

TOSS THE DB MEETER IN THE LAKE....

Lets get a board together and start to approve some exhaust systems...

BROWN.. Want to makes some money?

COOPER.. Want to support RC boating?

CMB.. want to offer the best?

Others want IN????

Basic rules

Pipes are submitted 2 times a year

The board has 60 days to approve.. or not

The pipe as to be available to the public 90 days prior to the internats

One exhaust outlet

Establish a ex dia for that pipe and document it… (you drill it your out)

Put the list of pipes in the book

GO RACING

Now we are talking...... stamp some numbers on the pipes... send them to the "NEW" exhaust approval committee...

Waddle

Zaker

Ball

Crowther

?

Get the best guys on the committee

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

 

[user 115]

Ok... lets say we FIX this DB issue...

Do you think its REALY going to FIX anything. OR.. do you think we will see the same bunch of guys and all there BS.. My boat was this..the meter was that.. the pond was this...

TOSS THE DB MEETER IN THE LAKE....

Lets get a board together and start to approve some exhaust systems...

BROWN.. Want to makes some money?

COOPER.. Want to support RC boating?

CMB.. want to offer the best?

Others want IN????

Basic rules

Pipes are submitted 2 times a year

The board has 60 days to approve.. or not

The pipe as to be available to the public 90 days prior to the internats

One exhaust outlet

Establish a ex dia for that pipe and document it… (you drill it your out)

Put the list of pipes in the book

GO RACING

Now we are talking...... stamp some numbers on the pipes... send them to the "NEW" exhaust approval committee...

Waddle

Zaker

Ball

Crowther

?

Get the best guys on the committee

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

So say you get a set of approved pipes, then what? It's been said time and time again by the NAVIGA folks that there is more to the noise issue than the pipe.. So as long as a guy has the approved pipe, it doesn't matter that their boat registers 95 db??

Charley

 

[Chris Wood]

Ok... lets say we FIX this DB issue...

Do you think its REALY going to FIX anything. OR.. do you think we will see the same bunch of guys and all there BS.. My boat was this..the meter was that.. the pond was this...

TOSS THE DB MEETER IN THE LAKE....

Lets get a board together and start to approve some exhaust systems...

BROWN.. Want to makes some money?

COOPER.. Want to support RC boating?

CMB.. want to offer the best?

Others want IN????

Basic rules

Pipes are submitted 2 times a year

The board has 60 days to approve.. or not

The pipe as to be available to the public 90 days prior to the internats

One exhaust outlet

Establish a ex dia for that pipe and document it… (you drill it your out)

Put the list of pipes in the book

GO RACING

Now we are talking...... stamp some numbers on the pipes... send them to the "NEW" exhaust approval committee...

Waddle

Zaker

Ball

Crowther

?

Get the best guys on the committee

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

AMEN MIKE!!!!

send'm my way, i will test till we are turning plugs purple...

sounds like a good start to me.

chris

 

[oldlugs]

Ok... lets say we FIX this DB issue...

...Put the list of pipes in the book

GO RACING

Now we are talking...... stamp some numbers on the pipes... send them to the "NEW" exhaust approval committee...

Waddle

Zaker

Ball

Crowther

?

Get the best guys on the committee

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

Best idea I know of. It works perfectly for several classes of organized slot racing, where chassis, motors, and/or motor parts have to be approved. For some guideline ideas, have a look at a current USRA rule book, and the approved parts. Keeps the level of cheating way down, as slot racers are born cheaters...

Duane

 

[Don Ferrette]

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

THAT AIN'T GONNA WORK!!!!!!

Wanna know WHY???????????

Gimmee the best super duper board approved ultra mega muffled pipe.

Take one 90 size motor, one current model mono hull & one solid motor mount.

Guess what you'll have????

A BOAT SO F#@&ING LOUD IT WILL BE PAINFULL!!!!!!!

Don't think people still run solid mounts?? THINK AGAIN!! Last race I was at there were TWO of them!!

And the hull resonant noise was UNREAL!!!!

You MUST consider the ENTIRE package of which the pipe is only part of. At that same race we recorded almost a 3dB DROP in noise on a gas mono when the guy ran WITH THE COWL ON! <_<

 

[teddyd]

Ok... lets say we FIX this DB issue...

Do you think its REALY going to FIX anything. OR.. do you think we will see the same bunch of guys and all there BS.. My boat was this..the meter was that.. the pond was this...

TOSS THE DB MEETER IN THE LAKE....

Lets get a board together and start to approve some exhaust systems...

BROWN.. Want to makes some money?

COOPER.. Want to support RC boating?

CMB.. want to offer the best?

Others want IN????

Basic rules

Pipes are submitted 2 times a year

The board has 60 days to approve.. or not

The pipe as to be available to the public 90 days prior to the internats

One exhaust outlet

Establish a ex dia for that pipe and document it… (you drill it your out)

Put the list of pipes in the book

GO RACING

Now we are talking...... stamp some numbers on the pipes... send them to the "NEW" exhaust approval committee...

Waddle

Zaker

Ball

Crowther

?

Get the best guys on the committee

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

Mike, I agree with you, we need approved mufflers. We need to work with one common denominator. If a boat with an approved muffler is over the DB level the board should advise the offender and work with him to cure the problem. We should start backing out of this hole and stop walking into it.

Teddy

 

[oldlugs]

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

THAT AIN'T GONNA WORK!!!!!!

Wanna know WHY???????????

...You MUST consider the ENTIRE package of which the pipe is only part of. At that same race we recorded almost a 3dB DROP in noise on a gas mono when the guy ran WITH THE COWL ON! <_<

That's the point where the whole rule book needs an update...

Take some lessons from our quiet friends overseas, then get our "approved" parts suppliers busy building the good stuff... Then update the entire rule book to include not only the approved quiet parts, but also state manditory use of quiet mounts (and accepted mounting methods), isolated pipe and driveline mounting methods, etc. The DB meter should still be on hand....

If the Europeans can do it, so can the rest of the universe.... And we'll still go fast!

Duane

 

[Don Ferrette]

......... then get our "approved" parts suppliers busy building the good stuff...

Unfortunately it's not that simple. You can approve certain pipes but it won't stop there. Right now I know of two different welders who are so good they could open up any one of these muffled pipes, change them inside, weld them back together & clean them up & no one would be able to tell the difference. And don't say that people will be able to hear the difference as if you take away the form of measuring it then becomes only someone's opinion. Besides, as previously mentioned & done so repeatedly, you can take one pipe on 2 of the same size & brand of motor & have two dramatically different dB levels just by altering the timing numbers, Heck you could have 10 of the same motors with different sound level outputs. How can you certify that? Are you going to start telling people they can't modify the motors? Not to mention it is totally unfair to take the realm of experimentation away from the boater who might come up with a way to really quiet his boats. Are you going to tell him his stuff ain't legal because some manufacturer didn't build (and PROFIT) off of it? THAT is just not fair. If I were to come up with something that made a significant reduction in boat noise & got told it ain't legal 'cause it didn't come from a manufacturer then I'm going to tell that someone where they can stick it.

Before we go any further all the dB meters need to be calibrated so they read the same, we already know this is a problem. Once that is straight then we can see exactly where we are. I think this part alone will have a large impact on this situation & we move forward from there.

 

[oldlugs]

......... then get our "approved" parts suppliers busy building the good stuff...

Unfortunately it's not that simple. You can approve certain pipes but it won't stop there. Right now I know of two different welders who are so good they could open up any one of these muffled pipes, change them inside, weld them back together & clean them up & no one would be able to tell the difference....

And some people will always cheat... That's just the nature of people, and what keeps the tech inspectors on their toes.

I think stricter rules along the lines of what the Europeans race are the answer, along with the list of approved parts, and revised thinking centered around making the boats quieter. The end results WILL be quieter boats, and little drop in speeds. I think it's either that, or we'll all be running electric (not that it's a bad thing).

 

[AWaddle322]

Ok... lets say we FIX this DB issue...

Do you think its REALY going to FIX anything. OR.. do you think we will see the same bunch of guys and all there BS.. My boat was this..the meter was that.. the pond was this...

TOSS THE DB MEETER IN THE LAKE....

Lets get a board together and start to approve some exhaust systems...

BROWN.. Want to makes some money?

COOPER.. Want to support RC boating?

CMB.. want to offer the best?

Others want IN????

Basic rules

Pipes are submitted 2 times a year

The board has 60 days to approve.. or not

The pipe as to be available to the public 90 days prior to the internats

One exhaust outlet

Establish a ex dia for that pipe and document it… (you drill it your out)

Put the list of pipes in the book

GO RACING

Now we are talking...... stamp some numbers on the pipes... send them to the "NEW" exhaust approval committee...

Waddle

Zaker

Ball

Crowther

?

Get the best guys on the committee

TOSS THE DB meter in the lake and lets END THIS BUNCH OF BULL..

Grimracer

Mike I can see it now. You must use X brand of grease on your shaft becuase some believes oil is louder. You must use such and such motor mount, and such and such pipe mount.

Also using Terry Keely or Ernie Lafluer for example have both taken someone pipe and made some quitening device that works, but can not be approved because it was not produced this way. Is this Fair or do we say that they can produce them for everyone.

There is also quite a bit of difference in same brand and model of pipe. True story. Once upon a time I tried to run a twin. Went out and bought the best of everything that I know of anyway. there was no noise rules then but I wanted 2 pipes that were identical, same size stinger. I bought 9 pipes before I found 2 that had the same size stinger. Stinger size is all i was looking at. Were talking as moch as .020 difference in stinger diameter. Manufacuter explanation is these pipes are spun by hand and that is with in there tolerances.

I really believe the problem with the db rule is in the meter itself and with the fine tuning. To me using this db meter would be the equivalant of using a 1/64" graduted scale for measuring motor displacement. Do you get a result yes but is it accurate?

A db rule is never going to be 100% accurate but can we get it closer than what it is now? I have heard some say that $250.00 is to much to spend on meter, but was than $500.00 I spent on 20 and 40 size mufflers and pipes to much to spend exspecial now that I dont need any of it. It was mandated and I did what was neccessary to become compliant. We have a rule that simply needs the bugs worked out. we voted, it passed, knows lets fine tune a little. As you can see in my post #273 i am trying to find a way to get accurate results, not do away with a rule.

Mike and others I am not trying to shooot you ideas down, there all good ideas, I just believe that we do not stand a snow balls chance in hell of getting anything changed unless we keep the 92 db part of the rule in there.

Allen