gear amp math

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T.S.Davis

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
565
Here's a fresh question based on my ignorance.

If I put together a setup, tested it, and discoverd I was drawing approximately 70 amps could I put the same setup on a gear drive at 1.2:1 and drop the amp draw down to 62.5 amps?

It's not that simple is it?
 
Amp draw has little to do with whether a system is a direct drive, or gear reduced.

Simply, Amps = load. Load is equal to total resistance, both electrical and mechanical.

The real reason behind a gear drive is to get the motor in to a range where it runs more efficiently. Efficiently means lowest amp draw, and at the highest output.

If you have a motor running a direct drive, at 80% efficiency, you would not put it on a gear drive. By adding gears to an already efficient system you can actually increase the amp draw as you are decreasing the operating efficiency of the motor.

If however that same motor was only running at 50% efficiency, you could probably increase that significantly be adding a gear reduction system.

Gears will allow a motor to turn at a higher RPM. (better efficiency) and produce more torque in an underdriven system. IE: smaller pinion to larger idler gear.

In an overdrive system. the RPM at the prop will be higher than the motor RPM but will have less torque.

It is all a trade off.

I hope that does not make it more confusing.

Peter R.

www.climatemodels.com
 
That's my inspiration for asking. I can pump numbers into FE calc for direct drive all day long. The thing is I could put a 13XL on gear drive and run the boat in Q,S,T offshore if I had time to work out the gear ratios.

Yes I know I could buy 3 direct drive motors but that's expensive. There are additional benefits to a geared setup.

You can guess wrong on your motor selection.

You can use the gears to get yourself up into that high efficiency range on your motor.

By reducing amp draw you can actually have more volts available.

I wonder if we could get Chris Fine on here. Splain it to us.
 
Gears allow you to use a single motor in numerous applications because it lets you choose the prop best suited for the specific model, not to the motor. Just because a motor is running at 80% efficiency doesn't mean it will give the best performance. You can run at over 80% efficiency pretty easily with an x430 prop on a Titan, but that prop is too small to convert the power into forward motion.

The torque multiplication of gears lets you find the best sized prop for the hull first, then match it and the motor together. For oval racing this works pretty well, because the motor will be running in a rather small rpm window. For wide boat speed variations the gears will "compress" the usefull rpm window of the motor into a smaller speed window for the hull, but this is usually not a problem.

Dropping from a 1:1 ratio to a 1.2:1 ratio does not mean the amp draw will drop by 20%. It may drop by less, or by more depending on the hull and prop. I normally use gears by finding the prop the hull likes best, then changing the ratio to fit the motor to that prop and speed window.

[Gears also let you use a more powerful (lower number of turns) motor with the same cell count without overamping. If a direct drive 9XL drives an x442 well in your hull, putting in a 7XL with reduction gearing can let you run faster with the same prop at the same - or lower - amp draw.]
 
Terry,

I hope the 13xl is just an example. My orginal S Offshore boat (DrifterL)

Ran a 13xl on a 1.3/1 with a 445 prop. Ran at 42 mph for 3 minutes and 50 seconds. Then demagnatized. Was a scream chasin Dennis all over the pond though.
 
Paul Pachmayer said:
Hey Guys,
Ha, for S offshore I'll be running a 14L in my boat. 

Paul.

87100[/snapback]

Paul

That I would believe, I have seen some of your setups with 60,000 RPM on a gear box.

Larry
 
Hey Larry,

That I would believe, I have seen some of your setups with 60,000 RPM on a gear box.
Low ball, the highest I've ran was 75K on the gearbox. Boy, those motors and gears sure sound sweet at those RPM numbers. :D

Paul.
 
My orginal S Offshore boat (DrifterL) Ran a 13xl on a 1.3/1 with a 445 prop.  Ran at 42 mph for 3 minutes and 50 seconds.  Then demagnatized. 
Plese tell me that wasn't the XL you sold me!!! :eek:


J/K. Was that a NemesisXL or a HackerXL which demaged?
 
That's the 13XL he sold me I think. But with a fresh rotor. I hope.

I ran a 13XL in Q offshore last year on 18 cells with an M447 in a Titan40. Turned 13.25 laps on our course. I can't find my notes on the ratio but everything came out hot. You know me.

Jay is thinking along the lines that I'm talking. I'm trying to find a way to do the mathemtaics instead of trial and error. A Titan40 likes big props (IMO). M447, X450 if you can get there. With gears you could use one motor and gear all around that prop to cover 3 classes. Trial and error is fine but if your too optimistic you get to buy a fresh speedo. Screw that.
 
Checked some notes over the weekend. This is what I was seeing in my Q O/S boat. 18 cells with a geared 9XL Nem.

From ratios 1.67 to 1.51, I saw approx an 8 amp increase.

Hardly a formula, but at least it's something!
 
Who ever got my motor......It was not the samer one I busted at MI4.

I got a new onefor the 3rd rsce from CHris F.

Paul. I hope you do run that 14L. I just hope you can get the smell out of your boat after it incinerates everything. I have used Detergants with Chlorine and those work well to clear the boat of the Magic smoke smell.

Bring it on>>>>>>>>>>>>>.... ;)
 
That was just an example. I'm working on an extremely modified Bittburger cat that may do double duty as my Q and S entry. Or I might just run the T40 in S. I have to get this cat together first and see if I can make it fly.
 

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