Full-p JAE

[Joe Petro]

The boom location on our 21G2 (nitro) and 21FE are the same. You might be thinking of the plans that are available as the 21GE.

I know it is confusing, but our kits are based on each other as much as possible.

Joe

 

[JoeWScott]

Will this work? I've looked at the 3674 Leopard & Swordfish 200+ esc. Good combo? Or do I need the 4074 Leopard? Not sure of the difference other than diamater??? Oh and KV. The 3674 I can get upto 2650 kv and the other one 2200kv...... This will be on 4s, 14.8 volts. I'm getting there right?? I just hope these motors spin faster than my head is right now. Whew

 

[gil sonsino]

Joe I've been testing a Jae with the Leo 4082 2000kv plus Seaking 180 with little mods on 6S for saw and the boat is very stable even spinning a 2047.I've tested last saturday another Jae with a Leo 4074 2200kv plus Seaking 180 ver 3 on 6S spinning 1450 (47mm 3,8cup) and again this boat surprised me. There is a guy in France running a Jae with the 3674 2200kv on 6S spinning a H7 with top speed of 85mph.All my experience is for saw so if you inttend to run it for heat race on 4S maybe a 4074 with lower kv can work Gill

 

[John MacLean]

The FE version has the rear boom tube just ahead of the turn fin. I built a JAE from plans this past winter and ended up with the boom tube behind the turn fin. . . a drag to get the batteries in but I managed. I am running 2 Zippy packs for 4s. One just shoe-horns under the boom tube and the other sits on a shelf over the boom tub. I'm pretty sure that the current Zipkits design allows for the batteries to fit between motor and rear boom tube.

 

[gil sonsino]

Yes the current Jae Fe allows a 6S pack to fit with no problems betweem the rear boom and the motor bulkhead.Gill

 

[JoeWScott]

John and Gil, what is the distance from transom to motor mount on your boats?

Any pics of your boat John?

 

[John MacLean]

From the transom to the face of the motor (Turigy 3665 KV) is 7 inches. If your boat is built from the same plans as mine JAE21 GE then you will probably need to remove most of the bulkhead near the transom. I had to in order to achieve the 60/40 ratio for my cg.Will try to include some pics later. My ESC also ended uo sitting on a shelf over the servo.

 

[JoeWScott]

Back to the 3674-2650kv vs. 4074-2200kv question. What would the requirement be as far as battery/esc running 2650kv compared to 2200? Seems like quite a bit more rpm. What are the trade off's?

 

[Chilli]

I don't think there will be a significant difference in ESC and battery requirements between the two motors. Both motors have roughly the same wattage output (+/- 200). But when your no load KV gets above the low 30K range heat builds much faster making a motor much less appropriate for heat racing. (dont ask me why because I have no idea) You are going to have to go way down in prop size to make the 3674 motor work for you. When I first got into FE's I would sit in bed and my head would spin trying to make sense of what motors, props and controllers to use. I decided to be a wuss and go with proven set ups and it's worked out very well for me. Personally I would go with the 4074-2200. If you don't like it, You could sell it very easily.

 

[gil sonsino]

Joe in my boat with a 4082/2000kv the distance from mount to external side of the ransom is 6" and agreed with Chilli about the choice of motor.....the 4074/2200kv in my opinion is a great option for this boat.I think most of us that entered to Fe world had their heads spinning to figure out the right combination of motor/esc...mine cant stop till now.Gill

 

[JoeWScott]

Any input on the swordfish 200+ ESC? The datalogging feature sounds great.

 

[Chilli]

I have no experience with the Swordfish ESCs.

My motor face to transom is about 5.5 Inches. I already emailed Joe some pics put I'll post a few here.

Standard JAE FE kit except for I made the tub 1/2" wider to give me more room for the big Neu motor and more battery options. I had to mount the steering servo up high to clear the stuffing tube. Motor mounts are from South River RC. I went with an adjustable strut for trials. I think I'm going to swap out motors and make this into a heat racer for next season.

 

[hugh hargett]

I don't think there will be a significant difference in ESC and battery requirements between the two motors. Both motors have roughly the same wattage output (+/- 200). But when your no load KV gets above the low 30K range heat builds much faster making a motor much less appropriate for heat racing. (dont ask me why because I have no idea) You are going to have to go way down in prop size to make the 3674 motor work for you. When I first got into FE's I would sit in bed and my head would spin trying to make sense of what motors, props and controllers to use. I decided to be a wuss and go with proven set ups and it's worked out very well for me. Personally I would go with the 4074-2200. If you don't like it, You could sell it very easily.

Chili I think its just the point that it takes more to turn the SAME prop at a higher rpm especially with less mass behind it. That counts too magnetically and inertially (my own word) speaking. 2200 kv put the props that are the right size for this boat right in the rpm range they need to be to work well. I think choosing a prop that will allow the motor to operate at the top of its rpm range is the way to go. especially for a heat racer. That will ensure less of a load on the motor and give good acceleration . I take this opinion based of many real boat journals and readings about selecting the right prop. The 2650kv will work but with a different prop - which may or may not give as good handling characteristics as the one youd use on the 2200 kv . speaking of props for this boat for heat racing wats the word on the water???? 1450's h7's what?

NICE JAES BY THE WAY CHILL!!!!

note: a 4s the the 2650kv will have you at close to 40k. that 7 k more than the 2200kv . If you slap the same prop that you had on the 2200 to the 2650 at the same voltage get ready for some smoke more than likely coz youre bogging down the 2650 ALOT! Thers just no way the same prop will or should work without some type of magic.With less mass and a weaker magnetic field I just dont see it happening with the same prop.

 

[Chilli]

Thanks for the info Hugh. I didn't know if motor efficiency was effected by the higher rev's. I came to the conclusion that it did not because most specs that I have seen give best efficiency at a given current load. The H7 is one of the more popular choices with the UL1 motor in the P-Limiited set up. I think I remember some being happy with cut down 1450's but I'm can't say for sure. I used the ABC cleavers in oval trials and the boat handled well with them. I have no idea what I'm going to try for heat racing. I have a Neu 1518 1.5D 2340kv that I'm going to try and make work for heat racing. I know it's probably going to be a hot motor for heat racing. It's not a popular motor in the states but i believe they use it down under for heat racing.

 

[hugh hargett]

trying to push that 2200 kv tailored prop with the 2650 kv will likely put you in amp load range that is all wrong for it. If it was propped right it would work though.

ABC cleavers are a very good series of props.

Being a NEU a 6% increase in kv wont hurt at all she'll probably scream B) .Thats a more reasonable jump in kv.

 

[JoeWScott]

Any input on the swordfish 200+ esc?

What esc are you running Chilli?

 

[Chilli]

When running 2 Lap trials, I used a Castle Ice 240. For heat racing, I'm planning on a Fightercat 6S 300 amp controller. I've been using that controller for SAW testing and it has been a good performer. Its also more compact than the Castle Ice. But the problem is Fightercat is having problems right now and I don't know if they will ever be selling the variety of controllers they once did. I have also run a P-mono with a Castle 240 (none Ice) for a couple years and it's also been a good performer.

 

[Scott_T]

I ran a 1515/1Y in my JAE and it went well, particularly with an ABC H7. I would have liked to have tried a 1515/1.5D (2700 kV) on a slightly smaller prop, but sold the boat before I had the chance. I just felt it needed more RPM than the 1Y provided. Not sure the 3674 Leo would pull a big enough prop though - might be better off with the 4074. Used an Etti 150 ESC. Nothing got close to hot.

Mine was a custom glass boat and had the booms in the same place as the electric plans. This is not the same place as the Zippkit booms. Made installation easy - cells between the booms, ESC next, then motor behind.

I have a Neu 1518 1.5D 2340kv that I'm going to try and make work for heat racing. I know it's probably going to be a hot motor for heat racing. It's not a popular motor in the states but i believe they use it down under for heat racing.

I have one of those motors and it is brilliant in my DF33. I went to try it in my JAE, but it wouldn't fit without work, so I put my usual 1515/1Y back in (I was in a hurry). I think it would have worked very well.

 

[HTV Boats]

I have had good luck with a 200 Swordfish in my P-Q tunnels. (addded a couple 1000uF caps) Pushing a 15320/1600kv Castle on 6S with up tp M447 for heat racing and 450's for SAW. Only drawback is limited timming options which may keep me out of trouble anyway. Just installing a new one with data option.

I also would like to upgrade my P boats with a 1518/2340 over my 1515/2200's. 2700kv might work in a rigger but too much in a mono or tunnel for heat racing IMO. Question in going from the 1515/2200 to a 1518/2340 for heat racing are you using significantly more battery ma's? Same props?

Mic

 

[hugh hargett]

Im not speaking from experience mind you but its only a 6% increase in kv I doubt there will be any significant differenve between 2200kv and 2340 . Apprx 32.5k vs 34.6k. Give or take a 2K!!!! @ 4s.