electronic ignition

[[email protected]]

would anybody be interested in a micro programmable ignition for our engines thats economical?

 

[jnissen]

Most guys that have tested them say the electronic ignitions don't buy us much for the boats. Mike Hoffmeister did some dyno work and found that the electronic units didn't improve performance any. If anything it hurt as they required a large battery and controller to ride along.

 

[Propjockey]

??? You lost me. Nitro engines don't have ignitions. I am interested, though. Could you elaborate?

 

[jnissen]

I was assuming he was talking about a gas (2 cycle) motor.

 

[[email protected]]

well the unit will be small in size and weight and run on a standard rx battery.it will be programmagle so you will be able to run higher nitro and higher compression ratios without the worry of detonating with proper tuning in theory.this use of a glow plug will be no longer needed with the use of a custom designed plug.It will be like a plug used in 4 cycle go kart engines.the ones with out an electrode "L" at the bottom.the spark fires to the side with the electrode sunk in the plug to create a pit.interference with the radio from the spark will not be there due to the design of the unit.the spark energy will also be adjustable to simulate the different glow plug heats that are available.

 

[Chris Wood]

SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA

NOW LETS GET SOMETHING ROLLING ON A ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION..

YOU MAKE THEM YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO KEEP THEM IN STOCK..

CHRIS

 

[[email protected]]

that might just be my next project,If my ignition works!Anybody be interested in investing in this thing?

 

[Chris Wood]

DO YOU HAVE SOME SORT OF TEST MODEL YOU ARE WORKING WITH OR IS THIS JUST SOMETHING YOU ARE KICKING AROUND???

CHRIS

 

[[email protected]]

Most guys that have tested them say the electronic ignitions don't buy us much for the boats. Mike Hoffmeister did some dyno work and found that the electronic units didn't improve performance any. If anything it hurt as they required a large battery and controller to ride along.

what did he have the timing set at?with this unit it will be programable from a computer or some kind of hand held unit(which I haven`t got figured out yet)Therefor you can set the timing 8 degrees advance or 6 degrees retard depending on how the motor is set up and what mods have been done to the ports.

 

[[email protected]]

I am getting a prototype built as we speak by an electronics company in Bangladesh.The company is also looking at getting the spark plug manufactured.I am working on a patent number now.

 

[[email protected]]

I am supposed to talk with andy brown tomorrow to see what he thinks about the unit.If he thinks its a good idea I will send the unit to MWD and assoc. for them to test on various engines.

 

[TimD]

What is the practical RPM limit of the device? Will it be able to sustain 35,000rpm? What size is the "spark plug" and how much would the plug cost?

I'm with Chris - Electronic fuel injection would be the way to go.

 

[Chris Wood]

HERE'S MY FEELINGS ON THIS TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH...

I LIKE THE IDEA. BUT THE REAL PROBLOM I THINK IS THIS.. PEOPLE HAVE PROBLOMS WITH GLOW PLUGS.. WHY?? BECAUSE THEY EITHER HAVE TO MUCH DENTINATION, OR THEY ARE TO LEAN ON THE MIXTURE..

I KNOW BECAUSE I DO THIS WAY TO MUCH MYSELF LOL

IF YOU WAS TO MAKE SOME SORT OF FUEL INJECTION, THEN YOU WOULDN'T HAVE AS MANY PROBLOMS WITH PLUGS BECAUSE PEOPLE WOULDN'T NEED TO HAVE A THIRD CHANNEL TO MESS WITH BECAUSE IT ADJUSTS ITSELF FOR THE OPTIMUM FUEL ALL THE TIME. AND IN TURN MEANS YOU DON'T BURN PLUGS..

I AM NOT SAYING DON'T DO THIS. I WOULD LIKE TO TRY IT MYSELF.. BUT I THINK THE FUEL INJECTION IS A BETTER PLACE TO START...

DO YOU HAVE ANY PICTURES OF THIS ?????

 

[[email protected]]

no pictures yet because the device is still in development.the reason the engine detonates is because the fuel is fired whenever it reaches the plug so it could in fact fire the fuel way in advance which would cause detonation.If you could control the point of ignition then you have futher control of detonation.It works just like in full size race cars.If the engine has high compression and it detonates then you retard the timing and still gain hp.I am thinking about getting a device made which senses detonation like a knock sensor in a car built to further enhance the tuning capability of the ignition.and maybe down the road if it works then have it where you can map out the rpm on a map and set what timing you want at certain rpms being set either retard or advance how ever many degrees you want.it uses a hall effect trigger to locate tdc and the computer would calculate when to fire the plug and it will be good up to 35,000 rpms or more if required.the plug will be the same size as a regular plug.If you use fuel injection you need an additional computer and a egr valve and a o2 sensor to tell the computer what the mixture is and I think that gives up too much tuning ability the standard needle provides.Why don`t nascar use fuel injection?because of the equipment needed to tune it,cost and its just easy to tune with a needle than using several sensors.If you set the mixture one day on a fuel injection with nitro the next day it might not be right and you have to tune all over again.with the needle you just do it with a 3rd channel with a load on the motor.

 

[[email protected]]

with fuel injection I think that would be to little performance gain and too much weight gain because of the computer and the 2 sensors,and the plugs would cost no more than a regular plug except this one does not burn out!

 

[Gattorno]

eagle21895

??? this is corect fuel injection for nitro engines 3.5cc outboards and others.

??? Gattorno

 

[[email protected]]

this is about a small programmable ignition system for all r/c 2 stroke engines.

 

[jnissen]

OS already makes an electronic fuel injection for nitro motors. Look at the http://www.osengines.com/engines/osmg0662.html

 

[Ian Inverarity]

eagle,

Pre-ignition or detonation does not necessarily start at the plug, so the gains from an electronic ignition system may not be as great as you think. Many times if I have gone slightly to lean with a motor it has removed the element leaving only a tiny bit where it was welded to the face of the plug, but the engine was still running when I bought the boat back in! Also with cone lock style plugs I have run 27.7:1 compression ratio (geometric not trapped) with 25% nitro with no detonation. Detonation does not always start at the plug. The heat range of the plug can be used to control (to a limited extent) when the ignition takes place.

I am not saying your system wont work. I am just suggesting that maybe the benefits wont be as great as you anticipate. Good luck, it will be interesting to see it! ;D

Ian.

 

[[email protected]]

I am not looking for huge gains of power just a little more tunability with the ignition that will allow to run a higher compression with extremely high nitro percentages and gain a little more than what you could get with a standard glow plug running the same set-up,and just were do you think pre-ignition starts from......thin air!I am saying that you cannot control the detonation using a glow plug because the fuel fires at different times.with this system you can control it a little more using a system that can retard or advance the time of ignition at the same time every time.