Double-Tunnel Pictures

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Mike

I have already felt like I have accomplished something by putting one on the race course. But, I don't want this to be about me and would not want to see it end with me. I am always telling people that I wish someone else would build one. The shape and proportion percentages that define a Mod-VP are pretty simple and I have no secrets. I would be glad to share my knowledge of that with anyone who is interested. I understand that most RC modelers are not familiar with this hull design.

If you have ever been to an outboard drag boat race, which by the way is most popular here in the South, then you have seen several examples of the design. STV, Mirage, Triad, Rapid Craft, Quartermaster, Stoker, Lavey Craft and some boats no longer in production like the Vision, Seebold Eagle, Laser and Hydrostream HST. All of them use the same basic "double tunnel" shape but if you look closely you will see that each designer has his own idea about the shape of the center ride surface or "pod". The HST would probably not do very well as a model because because it carries to much width too far forward. But I am no authority on it either. Sometimes things work when scaled up or scaled down and sometimes they don't. My little boat performs well, the set up is simple and straightforward and it is easy to drive.

Mark

 

[Grimracer]

Mark

Im sorry to say that i have never been to, or seen, any kind of full scale boat race.. Crazy thing is that i own a full scale racing hull too.. Hell.. I cant even swim…

Its all about the boats dude.. dont care if there rubber band powered.. its all good.

Question?

How does one go about getting a Dubl-Tunl / ModVP hull from you? Seems like a dumb question but, is it easy?

Just call? E-mail?.. on line ordering?

Best thing seems to me is to get a buddy or two to start building a few and ask if you can have a class of them at the next race you go to.. Better yet seclude a race and make that class part of the program.. You dont need 10 of them at the race to have a good time..3 or 4 will do just fine...

No wrong way to do it.. Just keep on rocking..

grim

 

[Bob Kensill]

As a "full-scale" tunnel racer turned r/c racer let me give my two cents. First,Mark is not the first to try the "double tunnel" thing. Most of you west-coast boaters should remember the Maus version. I still have one and will try to post a pic. Second,the Mod VP boats are legal to run in the tunnel classes in full size racing. Those of you that live in the mid-west might like to check out the APBA OPC Nationals in Kankakee Ill over the Labor Day weekend. Bring your camera, you won't be dissappointed.

I beiieve in "new ideas" and think Mark's boat should be legal.

By the way Grim, the B Sport tunnel class was originally " B Stock Tunnel" but the board decided that having a class with "black & white" rules didn't fit with their "grey" rule book. ( if you sense some underlying anger there,ask me about it sometime)

 

[izitbrokeyet?]

At first I thought I would just post the pics then sit back and watch the dialogue. Now I just have to post because it’s “my 2 cents” time.

Seems to me there should be no argument as to “IS IT A TUNNEL?” since the answer is yes (actually tunnel x 2). Let there be no doubt the Mod VP is an Air Entrapment Tunnel Hull.

Looks like the rule book has come out and people have been very quick to point out why it can’t race in “their class” without questioning the rule book. I’m a bit surprised to see this happen when the tunnel class is already struggling (who else in dist 13 runs tunnels?) Without looking first looking internally to work out issues like stumble blocks and steps, strakes and secondary ride surfaces, scale proportions etc. etc.

I do agree that it is clear that the “two-parallel hulls” line in the IMPBA rule book definitely precludes this boat from running in the IMPBA (and NAMBA I think) class as it is currently written. I believe this line should be struck from the classification since it means that a Party Pontoon boat is a better fit for the class and it should be changed to be a definition that talks about air-entrapment as a means of crating body lift.

Maybe I’ll build a pontoon Party boat with a kegerator and a novarossi on the back and run it 20class...just plain silly

WAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOO!

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Glad to see that this has become a thread with a positive spin instead of what it was becoming somewhere else.

Mike, I would suggest you learn to swim, if not, keep the life jacket on at all times. Keep it on in the hot rod all the times, preferably a jacket that will roll you face up.

Getting a Dubl-Tunl is not hard at all. A little patience is needed. I am back on overtime at the old workplace for the next week or two. I am assembling a boat now and another one goes in the mold this weekend. I have a full plate. I will e mail you ok.

Bob, glad to hear your thoughts about it. The big boat that is in the pic, the one with no deck on it, I molded in 1987. I ran one of these battleships at the Atlanta race in 1990. Ok, my fault for not telling the whole world in 1987. I built several and made changes to each one. Big ol boat ran pretty good, it was just built too wide. I would be very interested to see the pics of the Maus boat as I was not aware of its existence.

Mark

 

[dsl_raven]

It's not a true tri-hull, but it's not a shallow-v either.

If you've no plans to race it or if you're OK with the fact that you may never get to race it (short of unlimited, anything-goes racing), it is instead something else.

A nice-looking boat that seems to have been well-built it if can survive what you're doing with/to it. A step in the direction of original thinking and design (even if it ISNT the first). Definately an attitude thing of "I'm going to have what I want - because I'm going to design it and build it".

You can throw tons of money at the 'problem' of wanting more from your boat models. You can have someone tune it for you, or do it yourself. You can bolt on modifications...

What I find most rewarding has always been the 'something else'. Away from the crowd, and your own thing... Who knows... maybe you'll have your own class some day. You seem to have some personally.

A,B,C Multi-Hull. Boats of (insert length / class here) by (insert width) consisting of three or more displacement bodies, each with a planing surface. Each displacement body must run 75% (arbitrary) of the boat's waterline length when taken at rest.

Hey. Why not? It'd keep the riggers and hydros out

 

[Bob]

The MOD-VP class was my favorite class back in the mid 90s.We would go to Bay City Michigan for the river roar.If you think their awesome on the quarter mile they are twice as awesome going 50 laps on the saginaw river.Rusty Campbell was THE MAN in Mod-Vp.To bad the class died because of to much cost after mercury got involved and the average boat racer couldnt afford a new hull and engine every year to be competitive.

 

[Grimracer]

Mike, I would suggest you learn to swim, if not, keep the life jacket on at all times. Keep it on in the hot rod all the times, preferably a jacket that will roll you face up.

Mark

I have no intentions of running the boat.. it makes a good conversation piece. As for learning to swim...cant teach an old dog new tricks.

Mike

 

[Grimracer]

Mark,

I somehow think that my open thoughts and ideas have come across in a less then stellar way in this thread. My posts are to generate conversation not rip on anything or any bodies boat design.. My thoughts have nothing to do with “not allowing” a good looking boat like the Dubl-tunl to race or become extinct before the thing has had a chance to open its wings. Not the thought at all.. Being OBD for the IMPBA im looking for more OB racing.. not less..

Here is what we currently have in IMPBA OB racing…

Tunnels…

O yea.. that’s it.. There are no others.. OB hydro was dropped and to bad.. they are a lot of fun to race. There is no OB mono in IMPBA and if we limit all the boat designs to one class then we really risk keeping things the same.

You want to sell boat and I want to see OB racing in IMPBA grow.. The challenge seems to me is that you have decided that your boat design should only be run in the tunnel class.. Maybe that is true.... However not allowing this design to grow as a seed in its own right seems a bit stifling to me.. I also think that the IMPBA did the right thing my allowing you to run your boat with the tunnels so that others can see the boat race.. heck im looking forward to this..

Hope you understand my view on this along with others that are reading this. Its not about less boats, its about more growth. Looks to me like you have about the best boat idea out there for this to happen.

Bob. I also think its good to have innovation in model boating.. Have you ever had to question this of me.. na.. I doubt it..

Also the class B stock tunnel makes little sense to me as the time it would take to do teardown and the like at a race are not all stellar.. I know, I use to race slot cars.. However B sport works and besides the intent of the class was not for the new guy to buy a boat and race it.. The class was setup for the seasoned boater to go out and gain some bragging wrights. Kind of a shame for getting new faces in to the IMPBA, but true.. Ok lets race then..

Respectfully submitted

Mike Zaborowski

 

[dsl_raven]

It's a shame about no mono outboards. Some of the designs would really lend themselves well to this if you didn't cut them and put in the stock running gear first (or even if you did).

BTW - is wave slap a problem up front comming out of corners and the like or are you able to fully plane up away from these nuissances?

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Mike

I have appreciated everything you have posted here. Like I said, this has been about the most positive chat about it so far. My thing right now is run the boat, improve the boat and see if the impovements are making progress on the race course. You see, if I went to the races and got thrown out everytime, then I could not do this. I understand where you are coming from with classification. Would I be happy with another class for Mod-VP? Well, heck yes I would but it is not just about me. It would take a lot of work on my part (which I am willing to do) and others also to make that happen. Speaking of which...did you get my e mail?

Look at crackerbox and like you said, look at sport 20. I am still wanting to see the Maus boat.

Here is a thought. Find the Maus boat and the International Hobbies boat, let's decide where we can have a Mod-VP race and I will show up with several so other people can take part if they want. This could be a lot of fun (remember that is what this is about) and could get somemore interest in outboards. It is a lot of work to build from scratch, that is why I am suggesting the other two boats as a way to put on a demo race.

Oh!! I finally got my IMPBA card!!!! Thanks!

Mark

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

dsl raven,

Here are some numbers. On the current 3.5 hull the outside sponsons are 70% the length of the hull, not just waterline length, total length. On the plug for the upcoming 7.5 version they run 68% because this boat will be narrower in the front (proportion) than the 3.5 boat. And yes, this boat will be built after more data is collected on the current one and no matter what happens with its classification. To use the words of another outboarder........Rock On.

 

[DaddySundown]

Mark,

I really like your boat and really love the Mod VP class of old and would love to drive one of your boats. Love the old stoker hulls and by the way Al Stoker does and article in every Hot Boat magazine.

Correct me if I am wrong but didn't the Mod VP class begin with vee bottoms? Allison's and Laser's racing wildly in and out of the turns.

Then sprung the STV and the Stoker hulls. Man those were the days!

The rules stated that the center sponson had to be deeper by an inch and a half or so because the class originated from the vee bottom. So would that put your hull with the monos?

Alan....

X Vision Craft owner.

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

re: "Would that put your hull with monos?"

The mono hull rules of all the national r/c boat organizations state something to the effect that the running surface cannot be broken in a length wise direction. Anyway, the rules for mono hulls would not permit a Mod VP hull design.

The Mod VPs were not as fast as the true tunnel hulls, so it would seem a model of a Mod VP would not be as fast as a model tunnel hull. However, under rough water conditions a Mod VP design might prove a better handling hull. Or, maybe we're attempting to compare apples to oranges.

JD

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Yes Alan, the Mod-VP class started as an unlimited V-bottom class in the mid 70's. One of the worst decisions ever made by the APBA was to allow the double tunnel boats to race in the same class as V-bottoms. Just because the center section was as deep or deeper than the outer sponsons certainly did not make them V-bottom boats. Also, the rules stated that the center section had to maintain that depth for at least 35% the length of the hull. This was to keep someone from taking a regular tunnel hull and putting a short little pod in the rear and calling it a Mod-VP. The letter P in the name stood for "production". The boats had to exist in a minimum number and be offered for sale to the general public.

I would not even begin to try and race one of these hulls as a mono. Any hull with added appendage and air lifting capabilities cannot compete as a mono.

Yes Jerry, even though my boat is 28" long it handles choppy water very well.

Mark

 

[Bob Kensill]

We were a Seebold dealer and I got to play with a couple of Seebold Eagles. They were about 20' long and pickle forked. We had a modified 200 Evinrude V6 looper on one and an Evinrude 300 V8 on the other. Lots of fun and about 100mph.

 

[jydracing]

First off i would like to appoligise to Mark if i have said or posted anything about you that you or anyone has taken in the wrong way. now with that said.

I am glad to see something new in this hobby that is what keeps it going. i have been reading this thread and it has been very interesting but there is a few things that need to be said. I may be wrong but when a person joins the IMPBA they are they are saying that they agree to the rules and regulations that the impba uses. it does not matter what the real boats do in there races. i would be glad to head the line to get another outboard class going. tell me were to send the mony i'll buy one and run it. but rules are rules.

it was said in this thread that the first thing that happened was the rule book was pulled out and it was that is what needed to be done the rule book is what we go by in dist 13 we do not make up diffrent rules for the classes. i guess this suprised people becouse our tunnel classes has been droping off but they started falling off about 10 years ago not this year and this has happened to many other distrects also not just 13. there are many post on what can be done to save the tunnels? a new hull desighn will not do it. WE NEED ENGINES!!!! that is one reason the tunnel class is falling off. it is hard to get new people to go into a class that they can buy everything but an engine.

now as dist 13 outboard director here is the problem that i have been confronted with. in dist 13 we run two diffrent races that the clubs hold one is the high points and the other is the grandprix both run the tunnels. some people run all the races and some run eather this one or that one but on the highpoints placks are given at each race than placks are given at the end of the season for first, secand and third at the end of the season. on the grand prix we give certificts at the races with jackets for first at the end of the year. now here is the problem that the impba has given us. some people when they go to a race they expect a plack and some don't. me presonly i run fore the fun after 19 years of racing i am running out of wall space. here is where the problem comes in after the season is over and let's say the double tunnel takes first for the year. and than the impba says that the double tunnel can't run in the tunnel class. the first thing that the secand place is going to say is i should have gotten first than want to know is why was the boat allowed to run in this class in the first place anyway. now what is this going to do pull more people in the ob tunnel class or push them away.

now with that said i hope that i did not knock a block off of any ones sholder if so i'm sorry. as for starting a mod vp class i say lets get started and how do i get one.

mark i know that you put a lot of time and work into building the double tunnel and it can be seen in the one that you run is there plans for a 7.5 and 11cc?

well gotta go i need to sleep been 7 days of 12 hrs shifts and it is getting to me please excuse the bad spelling. see ya later jimmy

 

[topfuel443]

Jimmy (not to get off topic), I had a quick question, are you and David going to the internats??

~James

Charleston ECMC

 

[Lake S.P.O.R.T.]

Jimmy,

The only thing that bothered me was getting the rule book thrown at me AFTER the Board decided that I could have a trial period to run the boat. Now, I would like to keep this moving in a positive direction with you and everybody else.

I managed to get a trophy with the boat already not by out running the field but just by driving smart. I do understand what you are saying in the "what if" my boat positioned in high points and someone else felt that my boat intruded on that. I have been tinkering around with these boats off and on for quite a while now and last year I made the decision to get serious with it and enter the boat in competition. You have seen the boat run and you know that it is not causing any problems. It handles good, turns good, it just needs a little more speed, and it will come in time.

The original 39" boat can handle the bigger engines. I still have the molds for it. The boat will run good but it traps too much air and I corrected that when I built the 3.5 boat. The plug for the improved 7.5 version is 35" long and again the width has been corrected from the original.

It is obvious in this thread that there is a push towards another class rather than it running with the "true" tunnels. Like I said before, great, but it would take considerable effort. Let's get right to the point. After the trial period is up at the end of the year, how many of you guys would be willing to participate in a Mod-VP class if the boat gets ruled out of tunnel? How many want to do an exibition race before then? I am not going to stop experimenting with the design no matter what the decision is, so I can be counted on for boats. Can anyone else be counted in? The whole concept has potential, but it will take more than just me and my brand of boat. Also, let's not sidestep the IMPBA. The decision is still theirs.

The boats are available to anyone who wants one. If some of you guys would just ask you might be suprised at what you can get.

E [email protected]

 

[bzubee]

Mark I really don't see any problem with the Mod VP running with other tunnel hulls. Yuor hull design is really nice but people need to realize there is more drag with that type of hull than a traditional tunnel. Your design may end up having an advatage in the turns but I really doubt it. At least not from what I have seen at the races. The tunnel hull classes have enough problems with lack of entries and maybe an additional type hull would spark an interest in the class. I hope members keep an open mind and use a little common sense when the desision comes up.