At least the IMPBA made rules that are clear

[JfromJAGs]

I'm a NAMBA member (1096). Is'nt it too late now to submit for 2007?

If you really want to write something down, I mentioned a 4 line proposal at least twice on RR. But, it would be a whole package to vote yes or no. Anyway, never mind. I'm done with rules until 2008 (except for voting on the ones that will come in sooner or later).

 

[Darin Jordan]

If you really want to write something down, I mentioned a 4 line proposal at least twice on RR. But, it would be a whole package to vote yes or no. Anyway, never mind. I'm done with rules until 2008 (except for voting on the ones that will come in sooner or later).

I'll go take a look again and get it on paper...

Based on the time it takes to get rule proposals into the system... I'd start working on any 2008 stuff NOW!

At this point, I don't really care what the rules will be for 2007... I just want to know what they are so I can get my boats ready to go...

 

[TRUCKPULL]

I don't think the problem is going to be with racers,

As the ESC’s and Motors are going to be our limit.

400AMP - N2 boat- WHAT ESC are you going to run????????????????????????

- What 6 cell motor will take 400Amps

The big problem is with SAW racers.

They Use custom made motors and ESC’s that you can’t buy off the shelf.

A simple rule stating that Motors and ESC’s used in all Sanctioned racing and SAWs must be buyable from vendors off the shelf would solve all of the problems for SAW runners.

Larry

 

[T.S.Davis]

A simple rule stating that Motors and ESC’s used in all Sanctioned racing and SAWs must be buyable from vendors off the shelf would solve all of the problems for SAW runners.
Larry

Larry, that's not an outrageous idea. The trouble would be that someone might (there we go again with speculation) feel it's unfair for a someone to fabricate his own hull, prop, driveline. Make all that off the shelf in the spirit of equality? I can't support that. Where would you draw the line?

Joerg, I've asked over and over what the end result is that you fear. There can be only two things.

1. You fear the classes will be dominated by the few racers that Darrin described that have the ability to create there own equipment. Or those that at least have access to outrageous setups that can run 400 amps.

or

2. That the boats will just be too fast.

They are race boats so I'm not certain how anyone has the right to decide what "too fast" might be? When does an N2 boat make it to fast enough? 30mph? 60mph? When is it "too fast"? Buass would probably be comfortable at 100mph in N2. Is that too fast? Not for him it isn't. I'm not suggesting anyone will hit 100 in N2 but my point is that "too fast" isn't a universal speed.

 

[raptor347]

They are race boats so I'm not certain how anyone has the right to decide what "too fast" might be? When does an N2 boat make it to fast enough? 30mph? 60mph? When is it "too fast"? Buass would probably be comfortable at 100mph in N2. Is that too fast? Not for him it isn't. I'm not suggesting anyone will hit 100 in N2 but my point is that "too fast" isn't a universal speed.

I was trying to stay out of this, but since you threw me under the bus

Actually, I'm not comfortable with 100mph N2 oval boats. Mostly because I won't have very many people to race with. That and the fact that none of our local sites would support those speeds. I'll save the insane oval boats for when we start running 2 lap TT's for FE (or for open hydro).

We dropped P hydro for our club schedule because our lakes don't safely support the speeds (this was the case with NiMH as well as LiPo). The site for the Nats is another story, but we don't have access to it most of the season.

I don't have a huge fear of the 400amp ESC hitting the market. My big fear is that we'll lose the suppliers we have now.

Of course I'm one of the A**H&%*S who've been pushing the speeds up, so what do I know.

 

[JfromJAGs]

I just checked back my thoughts with Ulf from Schulze. A 400A, 18 cells controller would'nt be that of a big deal. Based on a 40.160, use 40V FET's, a 18 cell controller board, cut a wire, install another, use water cooling. Done.

But don't worry, Schulze is not going to SELL it. Why? Because they won't do it for 3-4 nuts guys. I'm sure if you'd order 500 of them, well - there you go. Similar applies to motors. Guys, whatever is possible within the rules, it will be done - people will push it to the limits. As we are trying with the SAW stuff, or the F5B plane guys, or...

Terry, problem is, the higher those limits, the more time, engineering and money it takes. Only very few people are able to do it and willing to spent the time and money. So you (Andy, Darin, Terry,...) think they will selfregualate themselfs to a reasonable level: 'Nobody will be that stupid to spent that much money and time...' - well, one will. People like me and Brian. And then the other will need to follow - or quit. End. Done.

That's what Brian is saying. People like Brian and me love to push the limits - we don't selfregulate us if the rules allow more. We know that AND we know we are not allone! So, the only solution is to set the power limits low, to a reasonable level.

With 10,000mAh rules and the new, even lower IR technology of modern LiPo's you about triple the power level of all sprint and SAW classes, compared to IB4200 SHV's. For enduro it's also almost triple (about 2.5 capacity and more voltage). This opens a pandora's box.

If you want more runtime, well then you need to increase runtime in the rules. In a class where it counts to use as less time as possible (sprint, SAWs), how can you expect people will RUN longer? Giving them more capacity will make them faster, not make them run longer. Similar for enduro.

If you want to achieve a certain goal, then you need to change exactly that. Don't change something else and think it will influence what you hope. Want more runtime? Well, make runtime longer in the rules. Want people to leave more fuel in their tank, well, don't give them more fuel, limit the fuel flow. Does that make sence?

My wish for Chistmas would be that you take your time and think about it again. Step back, forget all the new rules, the debates and new technologies. Go back to what you wish for yourself to achive in model racing, what's the fun about it for yourself, what will keep others in the hobby, and last what will bring new people to the hobby. Don't think technically, that's the second step.

Anyway, again, I wish you a Merry Christmas - we'll probably talk before the Happy New Year

Joerg