At least the IMPBA made rules that are clear

[gooycheese]

First off I really don't know nothing about the EP classes at all. But if they allow double the power compared to last year does that mean we will be seeing Joerg approaching 200mph? When will there be some rules set? I have a RTR sv27 it isn't a record setting boat for sure, but it is a starter boat that if could race would like to try. I hope all these rule work themselves out there should be some limitations, but like I said I don't know how the classes are even broke up so I'm not gonna say anymore

Thanks For the interesting Read

Paul

 

[Don Ferrette]

Don, you got my deapest respect. You - as a nitro burner - understand more of this than most of the FE guys.....

Thank you Joerg. You already had and have great respect from me on your accomplishments. Hopefully one day we will meet. B)

 

[sjslhill]

You can run that RTR SV27 at Batavia ILL and use NIMH in 2007. WWW.BataviaRC.com

First off I really don't know nothing about the EP classes at all. But if they allow double the power compared to last year does that mean we will be seeing Joerg approaching 200mph? When will there be some rules set? I have a RTR sv27 it isn't a record setting boat for sure, but it is a starter boat that if could race would like to try. I hope all these rule work themselves out there should be some limitations, but like I said I don't know how the classes are even broke up so I'm not gonna say anymore

Thanks For the interesting Read

Paul

 

[piper_chuck]

Hi Chuck,

If the battery being used can output more amps, a motor can be chosen which will draw more current and therefore have more power.

If it were only that simple. :lol:

Paul.

Paul, while choosing the right combination of motor, prop, battery, and boat is certainly not simple, the concept of being able to produce more power if you've got more amps available is very simple.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Don, you got my deapest respect. You - as a nitro burner - understand more of this than most of the FE guys.
Joerg Mrkwitschka

(NAMBA T Hydro record @140.36mph)

I am absolutely astounded!

How arrogant can a person be?

How do you classify the +99% of electric racers that you don't know, never met, and have never corresponded with as understanding less than Don does about this subject?

 

[gooycheese]

Would the sv27 be considered a "P Mono Class"? Ummmmmmmm hey everybody, This is all about having fun. Be happy!!! Oh yeah is there gonna be a restrictions on cell sizes I have 2- 6 cell 4500's NIMH will those be ok, I haven't even tried to use them yet? Is a sv27 just gonna get blown away in this class?

Thanks Paul

 

[T.S.Davis]

But what most people, electric racers or not, WILL understand is the following: in case the new NAMBA rule proposal passes completely, it allows more than DOUBLE POWER compared to 2006 in every class except some entry classes. Everyone will hopefully understand that this is of some HUGE impact.
I don't know if anyone told Mr. Al Waters, president of the NAMBA, this would be the case ?!

(NAMBA T Hydro record @140.36mph)

Why this perpetual assumption that FE doesn't understand the impact? Yes we do.

The clubs that passed the individual proposals I mentioned earlier have among their ranks multiple record holders and some I would consider FE pioneers. We're supposed to accept that those guys are ignorant, or can't understand the impact, or know less than Don (no offense Don)? The largest FE club in the US sent this latest proposal into NAMBA for a national vote. They based the proposal on their experience and added some of the ideas that other clubs voted in favor of. Those guys just don't understand what they have submit?

Your right Joerg. That is a bit arrogant.

 

[Kris Flynn]

Hey Paul,

i think MMEU or someone like that are going to make a SV27 STOCK class, having said that i dont know where they are in relation to you.

The boat in stock config probably would get smoked...guys are using around 30" boats on 12 cells now...I think Darin J or someone said it ould make a good O mono (8cells????)or something though.

Kris

 

[T.S.Davis]

Would the sv27 be considered a "P Mono Class"? Ummmmmmmm hey everybody, This is all about having fun. Be happy!!! Oh yeah is there gonna be a restrictions on cell sizes I have 2- 6 cell 4500's NIMH will those be ok, I haven't even tried to use them yet? Is a sv27 just gonna get blown away in this class?
Thanks Paul

I would run the V27 in P offshore. P mono might be a little to fast. They're respectable in P offshore though. I have no idea if Batavia runs a P offshore class. I think they do a P spec 700 class that they run counter clockwise or something. I've never been but I hear Batavia is a great time. Some of us MMEU yahoos were talking about running down for that this summer. Watch for their web site for the latest and greatest.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Would the sv27 be considered a "P Mono Class"? Ummmmmmmm hey everybody, This is all about having fun. Be happy!!! Oh yeah is there gonna be a restrictions on cell sizes I have 2- 6 cell 4500's NIMH will those be ok, I haven't even tried to use them yet? Is a sv27 just gonna get blown away in this class?
Thanks Paul

I would run the V27 in P offshore. P mono might be a little to fast.

I'm with Terry... I raced mine in P-Mono last season, and had fun, but a full-tilt P-Mono would be too fast to match... P-Offshore, on the otherhand, would be nice...

Somewhere on this site, I posted some video footage and comments on my races... I think if you do an SV27 search, you should be able to find it... (or look for posts by Darin Jordan )...

You - as a nitro burner - understand more of this than most of the FE guys.

I'm with the "that's incredibly insulting crowd"... You are not telling the whole story, and you are making some big assumptions...

YES, a good majority of us "FE guys" do understand the POTENTIAL of the allowances being considered... BUT, we also understand what is PROBABLE and what might ACTUALY be done in practice... There are very few... VERY few... that are going to put out the kind of $$$ it would take to build a truely insane setup like you keep talking about... if the parts were even available... which brings up another point... that the parts to build these theoritical setups don't even exist... not off the shelf anyhow...

So, if it's going to take a lot of one-off pieces to put one of these things together.... tell me exactly how that's going to hurt the MAJORITY of FE racers out there... They aren't likely to ever encounter such a beast... if... IF... such a beast could actually be brought to fruition...

Meanwhile, we'll be getting longer battery life (higher number of competitive cycles), more runtime, etc.... Yah... that sucks...

 

[sjslhill]

Batavia runs P Mono. The Spec series is 700 motors only. Go there and run the fun runs and find out, it's in your area.

 

[gooycheese]

Thanks Everyone for all your answers

And if the power is gonna be double I wanna see speeds pushing 200mph ok?

 

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks Everyone for all your answers

I'll appologize right now for the sidetracking, but here are those videos I was talking about... First is stock, the next is stock but with the prop detounged (stock prop)... Ultimately, I used an X646 that I had worked over (removed tounge, bar cut, etc...) Works great...

SuperVee 27 - Stock Test

SuperVee 27 - Stock with Detounged Stock Prop

 

[Darin Jordan]

Paul, while choosing the right combination of motor, prop, battery, and boat is certainly not simple, the concept of being able to produce more power if you've got more amps available is very simple.

BUT... we don't race on paper guys... we can't race "concepts"... Someone please post a parts list of what would be required to make a 7.4V (N2) setup use 400Amps for the 60 seconds or so that a normal heat race would last... Not parts that "someone could make", or parts that are so unique only a handful of racers out there have the means to obtain them... but parts that actually exist to the average racer... Prices too please, if you have them...

I don't think there is an issue with getting most to agree that some regulation is in order, but it has to be sensible, techable, and realistically implementable... It would also be nice if it wasn't something so specific that it had to be changed every year, but that may be necessary at the rate the tech changes...

I just don't see this changing the balance of competition at all...

And... if you are concerned about the "costs to be competitive"... It takes new NiMh cells every 6-cycles or so right now to stay on the top rung... Compare that to the 50+ cycles for Lipos and you'll quickly find that the costs over a season would at minimum balance out... We've had numerous examples on the other site showing this to be the probable scenario...

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

I really hate seeing all this brought up again but here we go.

Don, you got my deapest respect. You - as a nitro burner - understand more of this than most of the FE guys.

Joerg,

Your kidding right? Hey, I understand the "math" and "theory" but that is such a simplistic way of looking at it. I'm sorry my friend but theory and in practice are two entirely different things. I'm sure if Don understood EXACTLY what it took to field the type of boat that "could" happen he would quickly change his tune. Joerg, one of your biggest problems is you really have no concept of how we race in America. It is completely different from what is done overseas.

And with all due respect to our nitro brothers how would you like it if your boats could only run alcohol and be under 80DB. Maybe not the best comparison but they do it overseas, why not here?

Please, someone, anyone, build one of these mythical boats and show everyone what is going to happen. I'm laying odds that we won't be seeing one anytime soon.

I'm done with all this crap, I've got PO'd once too many times over it.

Paul.

 

[T.S.Davis]

Go there and run the fun runs and find out, it's in your area.

Steve's right. Hook up with these guys. Lot's to be learned from that gang.

I'm with ya Paul. I know your clutching your chest in shock. We've heard this speculation thing before. Once after midnight in Ohio around a campfire. I thought you might need CPR that night.

All this speculation about what "could" be done as thow it absolutely "will" be done is frustrating. 99+% of FE racers go to their vendor and ask what's available on the shelf. There are maybe 3 racers on planet earth that could build a 400 amp controller for N2 oval right now. Those 3 guys are going to how many races? Every race in every city? Even the NATS don't get the same group of guys every year.

How do you anticipate technology that doesn't exist? Heck, maybe we should write a proposal for hydrogen fuel cells. There aren't any that are viable just yet but there "could" be someday. Let'e plan ahead. (sarcasm) OR........ we could address hydrogen fuel cells when they become viable and prove to have an impact on racing.

How about a rule excluding props made with diamond leading edges? There are none available but someone "could" make one. (more sarcasm) Then they would own N2 mono. Or....... maybe we could address diamond props when they start to effect racing. That's crazy talk Terry!

When the first FE rules were drafted they were based on the technology availble at the time. I'm sure fuel rules were written that way too. The equipment had to be accessable to people for FE to grow. When the LSH rules were drafted they were based on the equipment available at the time. Because that's what would make the class work. Did it?

I wise man once told me that the first race happened when the second guy showed up. The first rule was made by the guy that came in second. If it were up to all the specuators, those two guys would still be at the ponds edge figuring out what's legal.

 

[JfromJAGs]

I guess I offended many people with my post. I'm sorry and I apologize for that. Actually I knew I would do so, but still did not ment to offend. So, sorry.

But how do you tell someone he's wrong and that he overlooked something or that his analogy does not work?? I'm no politician, I can't do it without offending people. So, again, sorry. I did not ment to offend. My intention was to point out the error, nothing more, nothing less. If you guys would just please step back and think about what I'm saying, then you may see what was overlooked, and don't get offended by my try to pont it out.

Don saw the weak point, and that was his fault. Again, I'm sorry that my comment made things worse for him. I did not ment this to happen - I could have know though.

Anyway, we'll need to see what the vote will bring and pray it will not be the end of FE in the US.

Best regards, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

Joerg Mrkwitschka - NAMBA troublemaker #1

P.S. For those who wait for 200mph: I will not try to race a 25-30HP model boat for SAWs. 200mph is not impossible. I will just not try.

 

[Darin Jordan]

But how do you tell someone he's wrong and that he overlooked something or that his analogy does not work??

What about accepting the possibility that people HAVE looked at these things, and have NOT "overlooked something", but that they have looked at the big picture and don't put the weight on the issues that you do?

What is technically achievable, and what is PRACTICALLY, or ACTUALLY achievable, are not the same thing. These extreme setups would take equipment that isn't even available at this point, and isn't likely to be, except to the rare few who can make it for themselves... I doubt that 99% of the FE community will ever encounter those individuals... even at a big National event... and that's IF these extremes are really possible to obtain. Not to mention the fact that these setups would have very limited competitive lifespans, likely leaving a lot of burned up equipment laying around after a sucessful heat... How many people are really going to push things that far? Not many... This is evident even today, as people choose their setups to maximize useful battery life, at the expense of a "top" setup...

The benefits far outweigh any potential negatives...

 

[JfromJAGs]

What about accepting the possibility that people HAVE looked at these things, and have NOT "overlooked something", but that they have looked at the big picture and don't put the weight on the issues that you do?

So you are saying you knew it and still did it? Ok, you'll see what will happen and I'll pray.

 

[Darin Jordan]

So you are saying you knew it and still did it? Ok, you'll see what will happen and I'll pray.

Rather than "praying"... why don't you write a proposal for some implementable limitations and submit it for a NAMBA vote?? If you are right, it'll get passed and this will all be a memory... You are a paying NAMBA member, right?? I'd be happy to write it up for you if you'll put together all the details... I'm pretty good at that sort of thing...