#360 free machining brass for a head button?

[Jeff Lutz]

I am quite sure we will be talking about this topic for a while.... Some Maybe ordering some 360 material and Cutting themselves? Others maybe buying from Steve or whoever is willing to make them? We were going to talk about this later in the year But THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG!!!!!!

The cat was let out over two years ago but no one would listen. Glad to see you all finely saw the light. Here is a pic of my first one in May 2010. This was designed by Marty Davis who then showed me how to make it in the garage shop. Amazing what comes out of a garage. Thought it a honer when John Otto was pitting for Gene Mongar and turned to me and asked "what makes that boat so dam fast" David

I was going to mention this was talked about atleast a year ago, maybe 2 years I could not remember. But,at the same time some of you guys were starting to get into combustion chamber shapes that work better that some of us have been running for decades! Steve mentioned dual plug heads, some of these shapes would not allow dual plug heads without thread intrusion. I will say I was proud to see some of you guys excited about the heads. You guys have started accepting detonation and working around it. Have any of you ever heard of "Direct injection"? It was the savior of the 2stroke engine from EPA in the mid to late 90's. Outboard engines mainly. On a direct injection 2 stroke-------------WHEN THE PORTS OPEN--NOTHING BUT AIR AND OIL ENTER THROUGH THE PORTS--FUEL IS SHOT IN AFTER EXHAUST CLOSES................ THIS GIVES IT THE EFFICIENCY OF A FOUR STROKE. An ECU calculates how much air comes in per stroke and injects the perfect amount of fuel.(Hopefully). With fuel being shot in after the exhaust closed, no fuel can short circuit out the exhaust. If you think about it---THE ONLY THING A TUNED PIPE COULD DO WITH 'DIRECT INJECTION' IS HELP 'AID' AIR INTO THE CYLINDER . (OR COULD IT). BUT, WHEN IT COMES TO LETTING OUT BURNED FUEL CHARGE OUT OF THE EXHAUST IT IS A HANDICAP. TAKE IT OFF AND THROW IT IN THE POND. DIRECT INJECTION OUTBOARDS DO NOT NEED TUNED PIPES. BUT, OLD LOOPER 2 STROKES CAN TURN THE SAME RPM AS DIRECT INJECTION. What? FUEL SCAVENGING DOES NOT MEAN A **** THING WITH DIRECT INJECTION. What? Yamaha Hpdi's (High pressure direct injection) were melting down pistons even with this "Perfect amount of fuel" being injected. Mercury optimax's (also direct injection) were not. Yamaha has quit making all but a few direct 2 strokes.Why were yamaha engines melting down pistons with direct injection? Why are mercury optimax's doing fine?(I've seen both engines apart at a rebuild shop). Is this reason the same reason some our doing it with tuned piped model engines? You bet your azz it is. Out of all of this, what are the most important things to control inside the engine? Imagine if you could burn all your fuel and not detonate the ALUMINUM head.??

 

[dr gary turner]

How about Naval brass???????????????

 

[Andy Brown]

How about Naval brass???????????????

The T.C. of naval brass is very close to 360 brass. Naval is 805 BTU. 360 is 798BTU..Expansion is about the same too. Naval brass may be a little stonger, it has more zinc.

 

[Andy Brown]

I am quite sure we will be talking about this topic for a while.... Some Maybe ordering some 360 material and Cutting themselves? Others maybe buying from Steve or whoever is willing to make them? We were going to talk about this later in the year But THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG!!!!!!

The cat was let out over two years ago but no one would listen.

Glad to see you all finely saw the light.

Here is a pic of my first one in May 2010. This was designed by Marty Davis who then showed me how to make it in the garage shop.

Amazing what comes out of a garage.

Thought it a honer when John Otto was pitting for Gene Mongar and turned to me and asked

"what makes that boat so dam fast"

David

Yes I know Marty was talking about them about 3 years ago in Charleston SC & I think different motors will see different results? But all will step up to More Performance with the extra pre-chamber heat. I`am sure Andy will be right back with some Big Results. Now I dont make them & I have nothing for sale. But I will have them on every motor I run as soon as I can get them all made If Steve is willing to make them...... I just received a Set of Brass buttons for a Set of VAC91 Twin engines

Steve O'Donnell was talking to me a about berylium copper heads over 10 years ago. Sometimes it takes awhile for people to get moving with new ideas. The multi-port cylinders that we use in model two-strokes today started showing up in our engines in the 1960's, but engineers at MIT were doing serious testing on multi-port two-strokes in 1920.

 

[dwilfong]

I am no engineer and it takes me some time to read and digest information as I get board with all the formulas.

If you take a look at the paper that i supplied a link to it has much info on the combustion proses in are engs.

It pertains to the emission out put of a small two stoke glow eng.

What it proposed was the complete burning of fuel. It only goes to say that if we can burn all the fuel we get the most power out of it.

This was a very in depth study and there is lots of info.

It would be great if we could under stand and apply some of this to what we are thinking.

I found this after the chamber designed I am now using was made. but this info seam to back up why it works.

David

 

[dwilfong]

Guys Im Going to Inject this again as i did 2 years ago

Anodising

There is something there look at the OS XM outboard

Greg

Just thinking out loud but if you just coat the chamber?

That way the squash would transfer the heat away from the piston but the coating would keep the surface temp up in the chamber.

There are some pretty good spray on ceramic coating out now.

 

[mark ham]

what about titanium?

 

[hugh hargett]

Jim, with all of this "Secret Society" stuff that you are supposedly privy to, you saying that you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong, about the 360 brass head material not making a difference compared to aluminum even though a lot of boaters have tested it and are running it with better performance and you saying the cylinder head temperature does not make any difference in the performance of our boat engines even though that is a proven fact, and a lot of your other incorrect comments that I do not want to be associated with.

I am going to bow out with grace and leave you with your thread. Good luck with your venture.

Charles Perdue

Just one more question, what was the official speed that you ran with your X-hydro when you held the SAW record?

Sorry to see you go, not really! I have NAMBA record sheets all the way back to 1985 & IMPBA sheets back to 1996. I don't see your name listed for any event what so ever. Maybe you ran some with some other organization. The last time I ran straight away in 1994 at a sanctioned NAMBA event, the official speed was 85.88. The boat was a 14 lb modified crapshooter with my engine & prop.

Jim Allen

I dont and wouldnt even play like I do Jim. Whoever made up the theory that you have to race to know engines is a fool point blank it means absolutely nothing to what knowledge a person has in their head. Be happy not everyone is racing coz I can tell you now some of you just had a good boat put in your hand$$$$$. What makes a good fool is not being able to accept info with facts and tested data from info with IMHO's. Send the motors down to Lexington with the brass button in them and DYNO test them ending all the speculation. Joe W Steve Woods said the button he used had a shallower bowl now whats the truth? Is the bowl shallower or not? If you need me to pull the quote from the other thread I can.

Secret societies or whatever foolish charges people wanna make wateva!!!! You dont have to be an engineer to know something but Ill take an ME's tested word over alot of whats been offered here as "what I think". Kill it send the motors!!!and end all talk!!!!!Im sure the 2 cycle forum is set up that way coz engineers dont really care for folks with alot IMHO's they cloud the truth or havent you noticed?? Send the motor for testing might be the one time Jim allows you a FREE pull :blink: . Yeah coz dyno pulls aint free big spenders.

"DYNO PROVEN RESULTS" is a great sales pitch!

If youre the type that doesnt value or gets tired of reading formulas no need to fool with anything technical; especially the operation of an engine. Alot of formulas and math all in it....... You definately arent ready for lamda control of an engine if you get bored with formulas. You wont even be able to set the internal clock on the mcu without some math.

To be quite honest I can take a youtube video's audio and a scope and tell you exactly how many K youre turning.Be careful! Coz I can get the truth from a video with audio. Admittedly I wouldnt know if you were indeed running the brass <_< .

Hugh

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Anodizing????? Like the Keeley Turbo plug buttons?

 

[hugh hargett]

If you mean top coating like you do a high performance car piston it aint a autozone spray on operation :lol: too funny.Tell me youre kidding please!! . Any true engine man will tell you you got alot of other things to worry about before you get into the finite practice of top coating a piston.I trust you guys mean something else when you say "coatings"?

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Thermal barrier coatings aren't DIY. But they are readily available.

 

[hugh hargett]

Sounds like a band aid why not just use the right material from the get go if available? I guess one could try whatever he wanted to and may have great results but without real proof of the upgrade in performance what good is it to the world? Proof is where it stands now. The amount of things you can try are virtually infinite wat you can prove may not be.

 

[dwilfong]

Thermal barrier coatings aren't DIY. But they are readily available.

Just spray it on and bake in the oven.

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Sometimes you need mutually exclusive properties: I.E need to move the heat that gets in out, but also want to keep heat out of the material. Coatings are part of the material.

Even OEM's use coatings on pistons now. The technology in today's auto engines is impressive; coatings, Direct injection, variable valve timing and lift, etc.

 

[Joe Warren]

Well I have Raced and Ran for about 13 years now. Have had the chance to Race and Learn from Some of the Best model boaters in the country. though many do not agree with each other & even i have my own theories. sometimes we assume that what we have for current performance is as good as it can get? But many hrs at the lake testing and attendingraces watching other modelers push their boat to the MAX limit many lessons can be learned if you are paying attention. Maybe you have never seen a 92 mph 40 Hydro in Heat racing trim while the race was being ran? (stu barr in evansville approx 6-7 years ago. Maybe you have never seen a 84 mph 20 Hydro (Bill Mcgraw RR .21 Extreme same year they set the record with lackey) 100 plus mph twin Hydro ( Andy Brown Huntsville) But went you see something like this it means it can be done & you need to pay close attention to what you can see about the boat. This does not happen by accident!!! & you may not know everything about the boat & engine But when a Great Boat and a Great Engine come together at the same time and someone is paying attention to great detail It is Obtainable. No one to date can measure the amount of unburn fuel or the BTU`s or (Unspent energy) that we are Just blowing out the pipe unused?? But I can tell you that the Ideal head button alloy (Combustion Precamber) can light that fuel and You will see results. You have already bought the High Percent Nitro fuel & put it in the tank.. Why not get the Energy it can provide? Now we can talk about this till you butt falls off. Or you can just put on a Brass Head Button and see for yourself. My only wish is we could have found it 10 years ago........Now Back to making Brass Chips.........

 

[tnrcboatracer]

Great info. I wonder which type of coating was on the Keeley buttons; BArrier or Dispersant???? Hmmmm.

 

[hugh hargett]

Thermal barrier coatings aren't DIY. But they are readily available.

Just spray it on and bake in the oven.

Go on and spray that s$%t on your motor bake it then give us the your un dyno ed results .It will become industry standard in a short while.

About the #360 free machining brass anyone willing to back up the claim on a dyno pull? yes or no?

Note about coatings and how many of them are garbage http://swaintech.com/race-coatings/

 

[dwilfong]

Great info. I wonder which type of coating was on the Keeley buttons; BArrier or Dispersant???? Hmmmm.

I have one of his buttons for a K&B 7,5 and wondered what the black coating was.

There is a reason thy paint radiators black to disperse the heat.

 

[tnrcboatracer]

The ones I have are more of a dark brown. Ever try to get one to detonate......

 

[hugh hargett]

All the high performance radiators and intercoolers I see on the market are the natural color of satin aluminum. Black paint does not disperse heat it increases it. On a hot summer day Put a black t on then put a white t on and tell me which shirt is hotter standing in it.