19T 05's

[AlanN]

I was wondering what makes and or types of 19T 05's you guys have been using for N mono. What size prop have you guys been using for a 5 lap heat? I would assume smaller than a x435.

 

[drobie]

I was wondering what makes and or types of 19T 05's you guys have been using for N mono.  What size prop have you guys been using for a 5 lap heat?  I would assume smaller than a x435.

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Trinity Chameleons.

I fried lots of motors with a Y535. With that prop, motors are good for one heat (at least in my boat anyway, a Force 21).

Probably somewhere between x432 and Y535.

I'm building a new Force right now and think I can lighten it up enough to swing that 35.

 

[jstolz]

Alan,

I think most people are running a Trinity Chameleon. As far as props go, I ran a Y531 with a Chameleon in an Electrified. It ran very well. I would syspect that a 432 would also be a good choice.

Jay

 

[Jeff Shriver]

Has anyone run the Reedy Spec 19T Quad Magnet motor? It seems from the touring car websites, the Spec 19T Quad and Chameleon 2 are the most popular motors.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Trinity Chameleons.
I fried lots of motors with a Y535. 

I'd be interested in knowing why this is? We regularly run X435's or X632's or Y535s with our 27T N1 motors with little problem...

Of course, my N1 hull is an El Lobo 2 Graphite that weighs under 40oz in race trim, so perhaps that's lighter than most??? I'm not sure how that compares...

On my hull, we run either an de-tongued X632 or a de-tongued X435 (a little less rulely... get's a little squirely with this one...) and my motors come in under 120degrees, with brush cooling and a small fan blowing on the brushes...

I'll admit, however, that we take N1 pretty seriously, so our hulls are NOT stock and a lot of attention has been paid to getting the necessary lift, etc... to make them air out... As well as to make them as LIGHT as possible...

 

[brooks93]

Darin the reason is easy.. its a 19t not a 27 turn so you get more rpm then you do torque

most 27t stocks are around 18k most 19t that I have seen are around 24k

think of it as a 7s vs a 15s hacker.. you can run more prop on the higher wind motor then you can on a lower wind motor.

These guys are serious about n1 also

 

[Darin Jordan]

Darin the reason is easy..  its a 19t not a 27 turn so you get more rpm then you do torque
These guys are serious about n1 also

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Brooks... Please don't take my previous post as any kind of put-down... I was seriously interested in these guy's setups and why they'd be having motor issues...

I hadn't thought about the 19T having less torque... Quite frankly, the guys that tried them here thought they were MORE powerful, not less... The 27T motors we use turn from 30,000 up to 36,000 (on a computer dyno) or so, which I believe is more, or very near the same as the Trinity 19T motors, so I hadn't thought of the 19T as turning much more RPM...

The "fast" N1 guys in our club run Epic Binary or Monster Stock 27T motors, with AgressiveRCTEch brushes, and these turn 36,000+RPM (again, on a dyno). These ore run in El Lobo 2s with extended strakes and they normally run X435 props with the tongues cut down. Their motors get up to 140 degrees or so on average...

My setup is a little different, as I run a P2K2 style motor, which only revs about 31,000RPM but has better torque numbers then the Epics... With the same prop as these guys run, I only get up to around 115degrees on a race run, but I'm right there with them on overall performance... I think my boat is a little lighter than most...

We had some guys put in 19T motors with no other changes and their boats were considerably faster, with little, if any, additional heat build up reported...

Does anyone have some output specs for the 19T motors? It would be interesting to compare that to what we get from the 27T motors as far as torque, etc.. goes...

 

[brooks93]

Darin no worries I didn't take it as a put down

I hadn't thought about the 19T having less torque... Quite frankly, the guys that tried them here thought they were MORE powerful, not less... The 27T motors we use turn from 30,000 up to 36,000 (on a computer dyno) or so, which I believe is more, or very near the same as the Trinity 19T motors, so I hadn't thought of the 19T as turning much more RPM...

I would have to see that to believe that.. I raced sedan for years and I ran alot of mod motors and pro tuned.. even my best 12t double wasn't close to 36k rpm and a 10t double that I had up until about a month ago came from trinity all tweaked at 35k.

I really don't see how a 18k 27t stock P2K can double its rpm by changing spring tension and brushs. So I would have to say BS on a 36k stock 27t motor. Not on 6 cells

the 19t might have more power then the 27t.. you do loose torque but you gain rpm.. so if you gain more rpm then you loose in torque you would have a more powerful motor.. I could be wrong and probably am.. I haven't ran anything brushed in over 2 years.

I was goign to start back up in sedan but, decided not to.

 

[Darin Jordan]

I would have to see that to believe that..
I really don't see how a 18k 27t stock P2K can double its rpm by changing spring tension and brushs.  So I would have to say BS on a 36k stock 27t motor.  Not on 6 cells

Ummm... OK, now you can see it...

 

[Darin Jordan]

I would have to see that to believe that..
I really don't see how a 18k 27t stock P2K can double its rpm by changing spring tension and brushs.  So I would have to say BS on a 36k stock 27t motor.  Not on 6 cells

Here is an Epic Binary prepared by AggressiveRCTech... 37,000 and some change...

 

[Darin Jordan]

I would have to see that to believe that..
I really don't see how a 18k 27t stock P2K can double its rpm by changing spring tension and brushs.  So I would have to say BS on a 36k stock 27t motor.  Not on 6 cells

And here is a Monster Stock, also prepared by AggressiveRCTech... ( www.aggressiverctech.com just in case you'd like to inquire... )

35,000 and change...

Looks like the dyno'd voltage is 7.5... I'm not sure what the correct voltage is for a 6-cell pack at full charge, but I know my charger always says something over 8.0... (if it's only suppose to be 7.2V... why does the charger always say a higher value???)...

Anyhow, all these motors work great...

We actually have guys that run X438s and X440s with them as well, but those motors are about 6-lap motors, then they are typically a little warm...

 

[brooks93]

under load you voltage would be probably 6.5 to 6 volts..

also that 35k number is not under load.. look at the amp draw and the draw under max eff its only 21k

so pump the voltage down to where it should be and put it under load and you have a probably 18 to 20k motor

look at the last graph under max power.. when the motor draws its max power of 32 amps it only spinning at 15k at 6 volts.

 

[Darin Jordan]

under load you voltage would be probably 6.5 to 6 volts..
also that 35k number is not under load.. look at the amp draw and the draw under max eff its only 21k

so pump the voltage down to where it should be and put it under load and you have a probably 18 to 20k motor

look at the last graph under max power.. when the motor draws its max power of 32 amps it only spinning at 15k at 6 volts.

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Kelly, I don't want to turn this into a big debate... I relayed your comments to the owner of the information, and he disagrees with your assessment. I can boil it down to this simple point... His motors make MORE power than most 27T motors, and it has to do with the unique brushes and painstaking attention to detail he takes in breaking them in and assembling them... I've seen the before an after and it is quite a bit of difference...

Now, all that being said, a stock 19T appears to be faster... I'd be interested to see what would happen if Ted got ahold of one of those... We may find out this winter and for next season...

 

[brooks93]

I am not trying to say his motors are not better then a stock 27t but, the graph you posted shows the motor only makes 15k with 34 amps of load and made 124 watts of power.. and at 34 amps the volts was 6 volts.. Which agian would make sense for under load volts. max eff. was at 21k and 21 amps.

which in my mind is correct.. now a stock 27t might be less then that at the same load which I would be willing to bet but, the graph clearly shows exactly what I am talking about.. look in the bottom left..

you have max power, max eff and max rpm.. now under max rpm look at the amps.. 2 amps.. that tells me no load on the motor. the 2 amps is what the motor itself takes to turn itself over.. think IO on a brushless break down

and the numbers I am refering to are under load numbers thats why the 36k numbers seemed high to me.

I am thinking you where saying 36k with a load on the motor.. if that was the case you would have a 30 mph plus boat in n1.. NOT going to happen

we are both right but, if he thinks I am wrong with the break down have him jump on here and explain it to me. I am not a expert by any means.

 

[Darin Jordan]

I am not a expert by any means.

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Kelly,

Yah... me either... All I know is what I've seen and what I've been told... Bottom line is that these motors GO...

Ted could explain it better, but here is a chart he sent me that goes along with the graph for the Epic Binary graph shown above... This shows the loads, torque, RPMs, etc... I think it tells a different story than the graph alone...

Epic Binary 2 Dyno table

 

[brooks93]

basicly shows the same thing at around 30 amps which most boats pull plus some its making around 15k rpm. which is good under load in my opinion. 35k no load doesn't do you much good unless your racing on the bench..

 

[drobie]

One thing that I always wondered about in the 27T vs. 19T discussion.

If these pros can (as Andy K. is fond of saying) get 19T performance out of a tweaked 27T, then what can they get out of a tweaked 19T?

 

[AlanN]

I am not an expert either but there a physical differences between the 2 winds.

Obviously a 19t can generate more rpm than a 27t. It also depends on the wheel your spinning.

Darin:

My experience has taught me that many sellers/distributors of products will tell us whatever we want to hear or at least make their evidence out to be what we think we need. I do know that some people are gifted in their ability to tweak a motor for better performance ex...Ed "The Master" Hughy but I have bought tweaked motors and found some just as equal or less than better than if I just changed some brushes and fooled with different springs. My point....buyer beware.

 

[Kevin Whitehead]

Kids,

This is a great thread for promoting the N2 classes (especially N2 Sport Hydro!)

Drop in a Lehner Basic 5300 (or similar) motor and a cheap brushless control.

Faster

No brushes = No maintenance

No need to find a motor voodoo doctor to "tweak" your motor (so you can compete with the deep pocket adults getting power from the bank account instead of the battery pack)

KW

 

[AlanN]

Now now Mr. Whithead,

You know I love the N2 stuff but N1 is what we're dicussin!

HUG!!!!!

ps your "package will be shipping soon"