Whats fair about "Toy Boats"

[Joe Warren]

There is good and bad to both sides of this subject and honestly I don't care any more, just want to race. I've said my piece and will leave this topic with one final thing- while this is NOT directed at any particular people or clubs since the advent of 2.4 that technology has actually made it even easier to perform race manipulating and heat stacking than when we only had fixed frequencies. Every race program heat formatting can be edited one way or another before it's "final" version spits out the heats. Has that happened lately?? Hard to say 100% irrefutably but I've heard plenty of rumors and accusations...........

It's a hobby fellas we're supposed to do this for FUN.

Maybe I need to sent to a Email from Mr Knight. You Name is Included in it........... You have been accused of Cheating Don.........

 

[Don Ferrette]

There is good and bad to both sides of this subject and honestly I don't care any more, just want to race. I've said my piece and will leave this topic with one final thing- while this is NOT directed at any particular people or clubs since the advent of 2.4 that technology has actually made it even easier to perform race manipulating and heat stacking than when we only had fixed frequencies. Every race program heat formatting can be edited one way or another before it's "final" version spits out the heats. Has that happened lately?? Hard to say 100% irrefutably but I've heard plenty of rumors and accusations...........

It's a hobby fellas we're supposed to do this for FUN.

Maybe I need to sent to a Email from Mr Knight. You Name is Included in it........... You have been accused of Cheating Don.........

Ummmm........... really? Well this should be good for a laugh since I'm more often accused of being too hard line when it comes to following the rule book.

 

[Kris Flynn]

Does this mean that if I went to RC events I could look at the list then just sign up on the same channel as a know "fast" racer to avoid running in the same heat?.. What am I missing?.. I thought the heats were set at random.

I think anyone who does this, or anything to achieve this is just low and should be booted from the organization. Some like to win at all costs i guess...I would rather beat someone, not them lose to me (should make sense to those who go away to RACE not just to WIN)

I think what Mic is talking about is important if you are used to your normal pit person...I remember my pit guy nearly giving me a heart attack in Florida in 2014 when he screamed in my ear after getting excited about a dead boat which was actually behind me...needless to say there was another dead one after that haha

I honestly think the heat should be generated as random as possible for the heats, but then a button to select for the final heat which puts the top 6 (or what ever) in one heat to battle it out once and for all (if some are on same frequency then they have to go to alt freq for last heat).

 

[Kris Flynn]

There is good and bad to both sides of this subject and honestly I don't care any more, just want to race. I've said my piece and will leave this topic with one final thing- while this is NOT directed at any particular people or clubs since the advent of 2.4 that technology has actually made it even easier to perform race manipulating and heat stacking than when we only had fixed frequencies. Every race program heat formatting can be edited one way or another before it's "final" version spits out the heats. Has that happened lately?? Hard to say 100% irrefutably but I've heard plenty of rumors and accusations...........

It's a hobby fellas we're supposed to do this for FUN.

Maybe I need to sent to a Email from Mr Knight. You Name is Included in it........... You have been accused of Cheating Don.........

Ummmm........... really? Well this should be good for a laugh since I'm more often accused of being too hard line when it comes to following the rule book.

So how did you cheat Don?

 

[Joe Warren]

If you Dont attend the Race........... None of this is a Problem!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dr gary turner]

The issue is not cheating for me but I run the same 5 classes as my race partner including 2 twins.

Thus if all are entered on 2.4 it is potential that I must find 20 individuals to help pit and launch in a 4 round race. This is a real problem.

I take real offense at being accused of cheating in trying to find 20 individuals to help.

I have never cheated in racing for the last 40yrs in racing R/C boats or planes or any other endeavor.

The accusations of cheating towards individuals needs to be supported by hard facts otherwise quit making such accusations.

 

[Joe Warren]

There is good and bad to both sides of this subject and honestly I don't care any more, just want to race. I've said my piece and will leave this topic with one final thing- while this is NOT directed at any particular people or clubs since the advent of 2.4 that technology has actually made it even easier to perform race manipulating and heat stacking than when we only had fixed frequencies. Every race program heat formatting can be edited one way or another before it's "final" version spits out the heats. Has that happened lately?? Hard to say 100% irrefutably but I've heard plenty of rumors and accusations...........

It's a hobby fellas we're supposed to do this for FUN.

Maybe I need to sent to a Email from Mr Knight. You Name is Included in it........... You have been accused of Cheating Don.........

Ummmm........... really? Well this should be good for a laugh since I'm more often accused of being too hard line when it comes to following the rule book.

It just means you need to find a different caller for John Knight ever heat he runs in............It Dont matter if he had a Experienced guy in mind!!

 

[John Knight]

No one is being accused of cheating, let me make that perfectly clear. Signing up for a race on a non DSM system when using a DSM system is not right and not according to the rule book, period. 97% of the racers sign up with the DSM system and accept with no problem the random setting of heats. The ones that own a non-DSM system (like me for instance) or will do it to preserve their pit buddies to help. Many view that as stacking the deck for competition and that is the perception of those racers.

Doc - invariably from the past races held, the general average of hitting you and Mark (or any other 2 racers for that matter) in the same heat is about 25% or less. That could be 5 heats. Eliminate the twins and F Hydro you are down to 3 possibly. That is the average. It will depend on how many boats are entered in the class and how many heats are run and that average may go up some or not at all.

The primary racing software racks up the heats in an entirely random fashion for all rounds run for each class individually. In addition, individual heats cannot be changed and racers cannot be moved from one heat to another. Bill Britton built that in to preserve the randomness.

This change is done for one simple reason - to ensure fairness to ALL racers entered in the race. And it IS IN the rule book which we all expected to follow. An exception to it has been granted to the twins and the F Hydro classes, the ones you guys have been quoting time after time, for the very reasons you quoted with I concur with and you should be happy with it. For the other classes please follow the rule book. When you become an IMPBA member or attend an IMPBA race you attest that you will follow the governing rules of that association. The same for NAMBA.

Joe - I can get a number of people to pit for me and I have in the past and will in the future. So can you and I have helped you and Ralph, Doc and Mark, and may others numerous times. I am most willing to do it again as will many racers in attendance. This race normally has over 100 racers in it.

To all - come if you want and stay home if you want. Either way we will race these TOY BOATS! But do the right thing and enter properly.

 

[John Finch]

I race with my brother in law Jim. Because we have become good pit men for each other I have dropped classes i enjoy so that we can pit for each other. I only run two classes and he runs two classes. We have a great time and always have a pit man who knows what we need in a pit man. Sometimes I change my classes at different races but not to classes he is in. Works for us. For two guys who run twins..... I know what that is like. Don Ferrette was my pit man in twin nitro years back but when he started with twins I had to find help. The proper help was just not there for me so I gave up the class. I can see Mark and Doc wanting to have each other for pit men in the case of twins.

 

[Joe Warren]

I race with my brother in law Jim. Because we have become good pit men for each other I have dropped classes i enjoy so that we can pit for each other. I only run two classes and he runs two classes. We have a great time and always have a pit man who knows what we need in a pit man. Sometimes I change my classes at different races but not to classes he is in. Works for us. For two guys who run twins..... I know what that is like. Don Ferrette was my pit man in twin nitro years back but when he started with twins I had to find help. The proper help was just not there for me so I gave up the class. I can see Mark and Doc wanting to have each other for pit men in the case of twins.

Well Said john..... Exactly on Point.

 

[John Knight]

And the exemption WAS GIVEN for the twins and the F Hydro classes for allow for the special needs of them. However that is not good enough. Those will be only classes exempted. Some racers say even that is too much. Rule compliance is required for the other classes To be honest, you, Ralph, Doc and Mark are the ONLY ones that are doing this set up while ALL others are abiding by the rule book. Time you guys do too. Come or not come, your choice, not mine or ours.

Done with this and don't continue to send me PM's. You allege that Beals, Elkins, Stu and Don F also do your guys actions. They don't and run with DSM. The race rules are set for everyone. Get onboard.

 

[Mark Bullard]

Well John. What you are reading in the rule book has nothing to do with this. It is for the old frequency channels that were required for racers to be able to change frequency for a race if there were conflicts if the host club needed them to. It was also written for racers that changed frequency between heats that were running the same boat in different classes. This is why you have the time limit.

Now as of cheating, I have never cheated. And are not trying to cheat. If I wanted to stir the pot we would enter on the same frequency so that we could be in control of the heats we run in by blocking if needed. But this is a sorry idea by any standard and I would never do it. But there maybe some that have and will.

But I guess you have answered the question. So the best think I can do is take my boats to another race. We will not be coming. And I have heard of a few others that will not because of this also. I have counted 30 boats that will not be there as of now.

 

[Tom Foley]

What the hell is going on here ? Why all this hardline stuff ? Come on let's race these **** boats already .

 

[Richard Hartley]

I agree Tom

My thoughts about team racing are that if you plan to do that then get a big enough team so when you are in the same heat there is still someone to pit and call for you

I wanna race

Ive had Scott Miller,Richard Glover,Andy Brown, Tim Johnson, Charlie Siler, Aaron Aleva and others pit and call for me

Almost any of the racers going to an event of this caliber should be able to pit and call

Im coming for you Stan

Lets go racing

Richard

 

[Rudy Formanek]

Our biggest problem has been the community is now so small 90% of the classes at 90% of the races are just one heat anyway. Haven't seen a matrix yet where if you have 12 boats in 2 heats (6x2) you race all the boats the same number of times, so therefore every contest is stacked if you have more than 1 heat in the class. Been to many a NAMBA nationals where the host club strangely gets some mighty easy heats. Is stacking the deck --- cheating?? Some would say yes some say no. Some call it "TEAM RACING". Its been here forever and I don't see it going away soon. I don't wanna see people going back to 75MHZ, most of the new 2.4 stuff is really good. Sure are a whole lotta classes out there, that somebody could race if you don't wanna race your pit man, just sayin'.

 

[Rokieboater]

Make 2.4 mandatory and eliminate frequencies all together. Probably a safer situation all the way around as far as radio equipment is concerned. Just an idea.

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

Make 2.4 mandatory and eliminate frequencies all together. Probably a safer situation all the way around as far as radio equipment is concerned. Just an idea.

While forcing guys with 75 band, or for that matter 27 band, radios that are working fine to switch to 2.4 is an "idea'" I'm not sure it is a good idea. Can those of you who know Gary Preusse imagine telling him he couldn't run his 1/8 scale on 27.095??

JD

 

[Andy Greene]

Ok..The lid is almost off the box...keep knocking on it...can't wait for contents to come out.....

We are getting close now -

Pass the popcorn Chuck, my bowls empty ......

 

[timothy johnson]

Tom is right, lets race!! I believe Mark has a valid point about the rule book, if its not specific to the radio's we are running now then leave it alone. It makes no difference to me who I run against, I do take note of the more experienced racers and their position on the lake. Mark I hope you will reconsider. Tim

 

[Rudy Formanek]

Make 2.4 mandatory and eliminate frequencies all together. Probably a safer situation all the way around as far as radio equipment is concerned. Just an idea.

While forcing guys with 75 band, or for that matter 27 band, radios that are working fine to switch to 2.4 is an "idea'" I'm not sure it is a good idea. Can those of you who know Gary Preusse imagine telling him he couldn't run his 1/8 scale on 27.095??

JD

But race Directors could allow only one entrant per class to enter on any individual 27 or 75 channel! Software could be written to allow only one entrant per class on any 27 or 75 channel.