Outboard Motor verses Inboard Motor that acts like an Outboard

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Hi ron and any1 else

on here its states If you can send me a picture of a full size tunnel that runs an inboardnengine on a turntable, in the outboard tunnel class legally, then I will stand corrected.

Have a look at this,these will be racing with outboards in 2012,inboard V6 with caudwell marine outdrive
Darren,

That's a great video, but not what we are talking about at all. Look at the video closely. Better even, find a picture with the cowl removed. This still turns as a single unit and is mounted OUTBOARD on the back of the transom, not inside the hull on a turntable. The cowl is extended to cover the engine for aerodynamics but notice where they say it can be mounted to an existing hull in 20 minutes? It's mounted outboard, not inboard, but thanks for sharing. If you can find another video with the engine on a turntable mounted INSIDE of the boat and INSIDE of the transom of the boat, and legal to run in the f1 outboard class, I would really like to see it!!!!...... ;)
 
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Look at this!!!! Fred will be proud!!!! They took an inboard engine and created a LawLess Outboard engine with the engine weight forward!!! Fred should see if they copied his work!!!!..... ;) They did EXACTLY like I did and took a traditionally inboard engine and mounted it to a lower unit. People have been doing this for years in our hobby. But notice the hinge pin and the fact that it is mounted on the same transom as the other F1 Outboard Engines. The cowl covering the engine side-tracked your opinion. Sorry.......... ;)

JULY_P_and_P_Cauldwell.jpg
 
hi ron

go to 3.00 min n the vid

the engine is solid mount and the steering is on the axis drive,the whole unit doesnt turn so makes it inboard engine with steerable trim and steering outdrive
 
Ron if I kept my motor in the same place but instead of it be mounted to the bottom, I put a transom there and made a bracket to mount the motor from ,would you say that's a outboard ?
Shane,

To really be an outboard it should be mounted outboard of the hull. If you cut up your boat, create a transom where you have the engine mounted now, (similar to an Aeromarine tunnel. they tried this years ago), hang this contraption off of the transom of the boat, yes it would be an outboard. I hate you got caught up in this discussion as it has been brewing for a while, but seeing you were building one and realizing others may be as well, I thought it warranted discussions and rulings now before it gets totally out of control and destroys the integrity of this class and the intent it was created to represent....... ;)
If I did this to my boat it would be no different looking ,the only difference would be where the mount would be ,it would still be Pushing the envelope and I think that's where you have a problem, because know that they use this setup in full size boats whats

Wrong with it know

Ron I do think this is a grate topic , and I don,t won't to get anybody mad , because in this hobby we need all the friends we can get,

We are all in a tunnel boat family and that's a dieing breed

Thank shane
 
hi ron

go to 3.00 min n the vid

the engine is solid mount and the steering is on the axis drive,the whole unit doesnt turn so makes it inboard engine with steerable trim and steering outdrive

Look above Darren, case closed!!!!
 
Ron if I kept my motor in the same place but instead of it be mounted to the bottom, I put a transom there and made a bracket to mount the motor from ,would you say that's a outboard ?
Shane,

To really be an outboard it should be mounted outboard of the hull. If you cut up your boat, create a transom where you have the engine mounted now, (similar to an Aeromarine tunnel. they tried this years ago), hang this contraption off of the transom of the boat, yes it would be an outboard. I hate you got caught up in this discussion as it has been brewing for a while, but seeing you were building one and realizing others may be as well, I thought it warranted discussions and rulings now before it gets totally out of control and destroys the integrity of this class and the intent it was created to represent....... ;)
If I did this to my boat it would be no different looking ,the only difference would be where the mount would be ,it would still be Pushing the envelope and I think that's where you have a problem, because know that they use this setup in full size boats whats

Wrong with it know

Ron I do think this is a grate topic , and I don,t won't to get anybody mad , because in this hobby we need all the friends we can get,

We are all in a tunnel boat family and that's a dieing breed

Thank shane

I agree Shane!!!.... ;) Yes my concern is that it is mounted INBOARD and not OUTBOARD. That has been my stance all along. Look at the pic above and with this newly designed F1 Outboard engine Darren brought forward, notice the drawing in the background of a traditional outboard engine, they both are mounted OUTBOARD of the transom. They have just created a LawLess Outboard with the weight shifted forward. Great discussions.
 
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hi ron

go to 3.00 min n the vid

the engine is solid mount and the steering is on the axis drive,the whole unit doesnt turn so makes it inboard engine with steerable trim and steering outdrive

Darren,

Go to the pic above. Case closed. It is a LawLess F1 Outboard mounted to the same transom and OUTBOARD of the boat just like the other traditional Outboard Engines. You were fooled by the extended cowling, that's ok!!!!..... ;)
 
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If your on about that pc its the wrong that is being used in F1

this is the 1 they will be using

Drive.jpg
 
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If your on about that pc its the wrong that is being used in F1

this is the 1 they will be using

Drive.jpg
JULY_P_and_P_Cauldwell.jpg


Again Darren,

Look at the side view above in comparison to a standard F1 Outboard. It is a newly designed tilted Outboard using an inboard engine, just like a LawLess. Look at where it is mounted. You are missing the point here. It need to be mounted OUTBOARD of the transom with the engine OUTBOARD of the boat. The cowl threw you off and that's ok. No need to keep beating a dead horse on this one. Find a picture where the ENTIRE engine is mounted INSIDE of the transom of the boat and totally INBOARD on a turntable and you will have a comparison, ok?.... ;)
 
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The 1 you posted is not the 1 being used in F1

LOOK AT THE PIC I POSTED AND THE VIDEO YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE ENGINE IS MOUNTED INBOARD THE ENGINE DOES NOT TURN ONLY THE AXIS DRIVE

end offwhether its inboard or outboard its still an F1 tunnel full stop
 
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Darren,

You are getting off course. The second pic you posted above came from here:http://www.automobil...no---85843.html

Notice in the writing below from that picture that:

The test unit is fitted in a timber and carbon two seater DAC catamaran and early performance figures indicate it is very fast i.e. it set an unofficial South African speed record of 142 mph and accelerates from standstill to 160 kph is 8 seconds.

Formula One Powerboat is the INBOARD Cat Racing Division. The U.I.M Formula One Powerboat World Championship http://www.class-1.com/ You are side tracking this thread..... ;)

The first picture is their new OUTBOARD engine and it is mounted OUTBOARD.
 
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If your on about that pc its the wrong that is being used in F1

this is the 1 they will be using

Drive.jpg
JULY_P_and_P_Cauldwell.jpg


Again Darren,

Look at the side view above in comparison to a standard F1 Outboard. It is a newly designed tilted Outboard using an inboard engine, just like a LawLess. Look at where it is mounted. You are missing the point here. It need to be mounted OUTBOARD of the transom

with the engine OUTBOARD of the boat. The cowl threw you off and that's ok. No need to keep beating a dead horse on this one. Find a picture where the ENTIRE engine is mounted INSIDE of the transom of the boat and totally INBOARD on a turntable and you will have a comparison, ok?.... ;)
Ron not trying to mess with you but I think that looks more like a angled turntable to me
 
I only posted 1 pic and it came from caudwell marine and the same can be found on F1H20

Check the links i posted

they are not using there new outboard they are using the 1 i posted and has been run in the vid

let me let you into something

i come from a back ground of racing tunnel F1 tunnels in a class called NS2000 i also have a very good friend who is 1 of the racing co-ordinators of F1 powerboats,this is how my info came to what i posted

As for side tracking the thread it was stated about inboard in full size F1 i posted what is to become reality next yr in F1

end off
 
If your on about that pc its the wrong that is being used in F1

this is the 1 they will be using


Again Darren,

Look at the side view above in comparison to a standard F1 Outboard. It is a newly designed tilted Outboard using an inboard engine, just like a LawLess. Look at where it is mounted. You are missing the point here. It need to be mounted OUTBOARD of the transom

with the engine OUTBOARD of the boat. The cowl threw you off and that's ok. No need to keep beating a dead horse on this one. Find a picture where the ENTIRE engine is mounted INSIDE of the transom of the boat and totally INBOARD on a turntable and you will have a comparison, ok?.... ;)
Ron not trying to mess with you but I think that looks more like a angled turntable to me

Hey,

Its not about the engine design. Its about where its mounted. This design above is mounted outboard of the hull. It looks as though the engine AND lower can be turned either together or independently. That would take some serious review to work in our hobby as the outboard engine must also turn with the lower, hence the reason John uses a turntable. See below:

IMPBA Outboard Rules

Engine and Hull Specifications

1. There are two outboard classes - Tunnel and Hydro (Outrigger).

2. There are six engine classes – A, B, C, D, E, and F.

3. The tunnel outboard classes shall not lock down engines nor use an auxiliary steering

system.

4. The hydro outboard classes may lock down engine and steer by an auxiliary steering

system
 
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Notice the term Outboard above in clarifying the outboard tunnel and outboard hydro classes above. The method of turning the boat can be changed but the OUTBOARD term rules. The engines must be mounted OUTBOARD of the hull, no question. This is very clear to me and didn't warrant further rule clarification.
 
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I only posted 1 pic and it came from caudwell marine and the same can be found on F1H20

Check the links i posted

they are not using there new outboard they are using the 1 i posted and has been run in the vid

let me let you into something

i come from a back ground of racing tunnel F1 tunnels in a class called NS2000 i also have a very good friend who is 1 of the racing co-ordinators of F1 powerboats,this is how my info came to what i posted

As for side tracking the thread it was stated about inboard in full size F1 i posted what is to become reality next yr in F1

end off
The engines in full size F1 Outboard Tunnel Racing must be mounted OUTBOARD of the hull and transom, that is the discussion here. There is a design that is starting to gain popularity as it moves the COG forward of the transom and negates many of the issues related to hanging so much weight off of the rear of a boat. My concern is that if we don't address this now, it will continue to vary the class as it was intended, that is to closely represent full size outboard tunnel racing in our hobby. On outboard tunnels the engine is mounted outboard of the boat and transom just like we have been doing in our hobby. The design I saw in Charleston and mentioned by Shane, (and I am sure others will follow), has an INBOARD engine mounted INBOARD of the hull and transom. It was placed on a turntable to meet the " The tunnel outboard classes shall not lock down engines nor use an auxiliary steering system" ruling but breaks the main rule intended for this class, the engine is not mounted OUTBOARD of the hull.......... ;) I feel this needs to be rectified now. If it takes an amendment to clarify the obvious, since we do not have a full technical review committee at the IMPBA at this moment, then that may be where this ends up going.
 
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I only posted 1 pic and it came from caudwell marine and the same can be found on F1H20

Check the links i posted

they are not using there new outboard they are using the 1 i posted and has been run in the vid

let me let you into something

i come from a back ground of racing tunnel F1 tunnels in a class called NS2000 i also have a very good friend who is 1 of the racing co-ordinators of F1 powerboats,this is how my info came to what i posted

As for side tracking the thread it was stated about inboard in full size F1 i posted what is to become reality next yr in F1

end off
Darren,

Was your background in the RYA Powerboat Racing PB2 Circuit in the UK?
 
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yes we raced Ns2000,which is F1 tunnels with the 2ltr merc rather than the 2.5

been 14yrs since i was last involved in full scale racing

got some amazing memories from them yrs racing the burgess hulls who again is 1 of my friends now retired from building,but we still keep in contact

heres a pic from the past of our hull and yank tank van LOL @ lake windermere before they stopped racing on the lake

img002.jpg
 
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yes we raced Ns2000,which is F1 tunnels with the 2ltr merc rather than the 2.5

been 14yrs since i was last involved in full scale racing

got some amazing memories from them yrs racing the burgess hulls who again is 1 of my friends now retired from building,but we still keep in contact

heres a pic from the past of our hull and yank tank van LOL @ lake windermere before they stopped racing on the lake
WOW. Those are great pics. Looks like that series runs cats, monos, and hydros. I found the rule book below and the rules for those boats follow our rules for the definition of outboard and inboard motors. See below:

http://www.p1superst...rcuit_Rules.pdf

25 | P a g e

2 0 1 1 C i r c u i t P o w e r b o a t R a c i n g R u l e B o o k P B 2 V e r s i o n 1

F19 MOUNTINGS AND TRANSMISSIONS

Outboards

1. Mounting brackets and clamps must be secure and in a satisfactory

condition.

2. Engine mountings must be attached to the transom with at least two

clamps and two bolts, or four bolts secured by locking nuts.

3. All clamps must be adequately tightened & secured.

Inboards

1. Engine mountings must be sound, and the mounting bolts securing to the

hull must be pinned or lock-nutted.

2. Where an outdrive is fitted, the outdrive ring connection to the transom 26 | P a g e

2 0 1 1 C i r c u i t P o w e r b o a t R a c i n g R u l e B o o k P B 2 V e r s i o n 1

and the unit to the ring must be secure

3. All moving parts likely to cause damage if broken must be suitably

shielded

For shafts in excess of one foot in length the shielding must not allow

more than 1/2in clearance at either end.

4. Bearers must not be saturated with oil

Wikipedia description:

An outboard motor is a propulsion system for boats, consisting of a self-contained unit that includes engine,gearbox and propeller or jet drive, designed to be affixed to the outside of the transom and are the most common motorized method of propelling small watercraft. As well as providing propulsion, outboards provide steering control, as they are designed to pivot over their mountings and thus control the direction of thrust. The skeg also acts as arudder when the engine is not running. Compared to inboard motors, outboard motors can be easily removed for storage or repairs.

When boats are out of service or being drawn through shallow waters, outboard motors can be tilted up (tilt forward over the transom mounts) to elevate the propeller and lower unit out of the water to avoid accumulation of seaweed, underwater hazards such as rocks, and to clear road hazards while trailering.

In naval architecture, a transom is the surface that forms the stern of a vessel. Transoms may be flat or curved and they may be vertical, raked forward, also known as a retroussé or reverse transom, angling forward (toward the bow) from the waterline to the deck, or raked aft, often simply called "raked", angling in the other direction.[1][2][3] The bottom tip of the transom can be approximately on the waterline, in which case the stern of the vessel is referred to as a "transom stern", or the hull can continue so that the centreline is well above the waterline before terminating in a transom, in which case it is referred to as a "counter stern"[4] or "cutaway stern."[5]






On smaller vessels where an outboard motor is the source of propulsion, the motor is usually mounted on the transom, and held in place either by clamps or metal bolts that go through the transom. In this arrangement, all the power of the motor is transmitted via the transom to the rest of the vessel's structure, making it a very important part of the vessel's construction.[6]

Can someone tell me why we need a rule addendum to clarify the obvious description and known rules for Outboard Engines and Inboard Engines?

 
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