Need help with 89-90 Miss Circus Circus

[shann harrison]

Okay heres my problem I have late pictures of the 89 circus on the trailer and testing my question is did the 89 90 circus qualify or raced with the round backed cowl on the pink lady?primary boat.I know it raced on the old school bus but unsure of the pink lady even thought that cowl was on the boat when testing and transporting it on the trailer from race to race.And would anyone have picture of it with the round cowl being raced on the pink lady??Thanks Shann

 

[Mike McKnight]

When you say "Round Cowling" what do you mean? You mean the Clown Frown cowl? The Pink Lady was in all but two races in 1989. Chip flipped and broke it in half at Lake Onendaga in NY. They tried to qualify the School bus in TC but a broken rudder took them out. Chip drove the School bus to a dramatic win against the Bud in Seattle. Then the Pink Lady ran in San Diego and Las Vegas. The Pink Lady ran all of 1990. They tried the three-wing boat in 1990 but it was slow.

 

[shann harrison]

Mike,The cowl Im trying to explain is the clown frown but at the back of the scoop instead of the flat slope it is rounded if you where to look at rcboatcompanys SG1150C cowl thats the one I meaning. I have pictures but my scanner is not working in order for me to upload them.Its similar to the 88 U 100 cowl.They trailered it with it on but did they ever run a race with that cowl?Im building Mikes lazer kit 158 8700 hull,And Im trying to figure this out.Cause now its time to fit the cowling.And Im stumped.Shann

 

[Mike McKnight]

The Pink Lady hull didn't run with that cowl. The cowl you speak of is smooth all the way to the fairing around the turbine tube. However there is a small vent on the backside with a vertical vane down the center of it. That was the way both cowls were at the end of 88 on the Miller and the Circus. In 89 when the 8700 had the sponsons radiused the cowl was changed to the flat area from the rear vent to the end of the fairing. The School Bus (8401) had the rounded cowl. The only time the 8700 had a smooth cowl all the way back was in 1988.

If you can email me or post the pics you are talking about I can probably figure it out for you. There was lots of confusing stuff going on between 88 and 90 on those boats.

 

[shann harrison]

The Pink Lady hull didn't run with that cowl. The cowl you speak of is smooth all the way to the fairing around the turbine tube. However there is a small vent on the backside with a vertical vane down the center of it. That was the way both cowls were at the end of 88 on the Miller and the Circus. In 89 when the 8700 had the sponsons radiused the cowl was changed to the flat area from the rear vent to the end of the fairing. The School Bus (8401) had the rounded cowl. The only time the 8700 had a smooth cowl all the way back was in 1988.

If you can email me or post the pics you are talking about I can probably figure it out for you. There was lots of confusing stuff going on between 88 and 90 on those boats.

Mike, thanks Ill see if I can upload these for you.Its very confusing.the date on the back of the one is Sat,Sept,19,89 with the cowl you decribed to a T.Yes thats the one.It must be from a test session.No good for me then,I guess this boat will go on the shelf until I remodel this cowl to make molds for the correct one.The one I would like to do is the late 89 earliy 90 with the lower one vertical.Thanks Shann

 

[Kevin Lloyd]

Mike are you sure the School Bus didn't have the vertical vane on its cowling, I have the video of that 89' Seattle race, and I was sure it had that cowling, obviously there is so much discussion of this era with that particular boat as we have talked about plenty. The only thing for certain is that boat ran in the Seattle configuration only then...one time in Seattle, so a rare gem to say the least.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Not to confuse things but here is a shot of the back of the cowl from 1991 when the 8401 ran as the American Spirit. Hope this helps

http://newtonmarine.smugmug.com/Hydroplanes/1991/9733197_BV73c#705398846_4zwVS-A-LB

 

[Mike McKnight]

Kevin...the School Bus did have the vertical vane on the back vent. The one thing it did have in the Seattle race was the verts from the Pink Lady was the tapered Jones wings as they broke the Lucero wings with the flat trailing edge in TC when the rudder broke. Here's a screen grab of it from Seattle..

Here's another on the trailer...

Here's the PL from San Diego

Also if you look carefully at the two boats...the cowl on the PL sits back farther from the cockpit than the SB. It is also slightly shorter in length over all. The airscoop on the SB sits right up on the back of the windshield on the SB because the nose it longer than the PL. Plus the back edge of the windshield slopes are opposite from one boat to the other.

Shann...the odd sized verts didn't run on the PL until 1990. Also there are small differences in the paint. On the 1989 boat the pink stops ABOVE the canard wing as it extends toward the tips of the sponsons on the top edge. In 1990 the pink goes down inside the airtrap BELOW the canard wing. Plus there are small decal differences like the U-31 on one vert. The 89 also ran with a GOLD CUP CHAMPION on the sides of the cowl after Detroit on both the PL and SB.

I'm getting ready to make molds for all of these parts...Kevin is first in line for the SB cockpit and cowl.

 

[shann harrison]

Kevin...the School Bus did have the vertical vane on the back vent. The one thing it did have in the Seattle race was the verts from the Pink Lady was the tapered Jones wings as they broke the Lucero wings with the flat trailing edge in TC when the rudder broke. Here's a screen grab of it from Seattle..

Here's another on the trailer...

Here's the PL from San Diego

Also if you look carefully at the two boats...the cowl on the PL sits back farther from the cockpit than the SB. It is also slightly shorter in length over all. The airscoop on the SB sits right up on the back of the windshield on the SB because the nose it longer than the PL. Plus the back edge of the windshield slopes are opposite from one boat to the other.

Shann...the odd sized verts didn't run on the PL until 1990. Also there are small differences in the paint. On the 1989 boat the pink stops ABOVE the canard wing as it extends toward the tips of the sponsons on the top edge. In 1990 the pink goes down inside the airtrap BELOW the canard wing. Plus there are small decal differences like the U-31 on one vert. The 89 also ran with a GOLD CUP CHAMPION on the sides of the cowl after Detroit on both the PL and SB.

I'm getting ready to make molds for all of these parts...Kevin is first in line for the SB cockpit and cowl.

 

[shann harrison]

Kevin...the School Bus did have the vertical vane on the back vent. The one thing it did have in the Seattle race was the verts from the Pink Lady was the tapered Jones wings as they broke the Lucero wings with the flat trailing edge in TC when the rudder broke. Here's a screen grab of it from Seattle..

Here's another on the trailer...

Here's the PL from San Diego

Also if you look carefully at the two boats...the cowl on the PL sits back farther from the cockpit than the SB. It is also slightly shorter in length over all. The airscoop on the SB sits right up on the back of the windshield on the SB because the nose it longer than the PL. Plus the back edge of the windshield slopes are opposite from one boat to the other.

Shann...the odd sized verts didn't run on the PL until 1990. Also there are small differences in the paint. On the 1989 boat the pink stops ABOVE the canard wing as it extends toward the tips of the sponsons on the top edge. In 1990 the pink goes down inside the airtrap BELOW the canard wing. Plus there are small decal differences like the U-31 on one vert. The 89 also ran with a GOLD CUP CHAMPION on the sides of the cowl after Detroit on both the PL and SB.

I'm getting ready to make molds for all of these parts...Kevin is first in line for the SB cockpit and cowl.

Mike do you have a good picture of the 90 PL.?Shann

 

[Mike McKnight]

I don't have any at home they are at the office. If you give me your email address I'll send them to you tomorrow. I have a couple on the trailer and a few on the water.

 

[hugh hargett]

I don't have any at home they are at the office. If you give me your email address I'll send them to you tomorrow. I have a couple on the trailer and a few on the water.

I have the 90 dumas kit I think No matter which year Its a beautiful boat! I wish I could see the slight diferences you speak of as far as the paint. I havent painted mine yet but I want it to be accurate. Is the dumas kit for sure a 90 or an 89 style u31?

 

[hugh hargett]

Kevin...the School Bus did have the vertical vane on the back vent. The one thing it did have in the Seattle race was the verts from the Pink Lady was the tapered Jones wings as they broke the Lucero wings with the flat trailing edge in TC when the rudder broke. Here's a screen grab of it from Seattle..

Here's another on the trailer...

Here's the PL from San Diego

Also if you look carefully at the two boats...the cowl on the PL sits back farther from the cockpit than the SB. It is also slightly shorter in length over all. The airscoop on the SB sits right up on the back of the windshield on the SB because the nose it longer than the PL. Plus the back edge of the windshield slopes are opposite from one boat to the other.

Shann...the odd sized verts didn't run on the PL until 1990. Also there are small differences in the paint. On the 1989 boat the pink stops ABOVE the canard wing as it extends toward the tips of the sponsons on the top edge. In 1990 the pink goes down inside the airtrap BELOW the canard wing. Plus there are small decal differences like the U-31 on one vert. The 89 also ran with a GOLD CUP CHAMPION on the sides of the cowl after Detroit on both the PL and SB.

I'm getting ready to make molds for all of these parts...Kevin is first in line for the SB cockpit and cowl.

So if its a pink lady the back of the windshield slope foward?

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Hugh, if you're building a Dumas, that is a composite of the two Circus hulls from 1988. I'm sure Mike knows better than I, but in 1989, the boats went to Jones sponsons with rounded edges so the kit is not accurate in that respect for the 89-90 boat

 

[Mike McKnight]

Hugh to answer the windshield question look at pic 3 above. That is the Pink Lady and working from front to back both boats have a swept trailing edge but the PL sweeps back from bottom to top with the top being the longest point. Now scroll up to pic 1. That is the School Bus, the 89 backup boat. The windshield sweeps back from top to bottom with the bottom being the longest point.

Now to answer the Dumas question...I can only assume that they were trying to duplicate the the 1989 Circus. Because as HJ stated it is really a melding of the PL and the SB. It has the shorter nose and inset transom of the PL but the sponsons of the SB. There are some more but those are the big ones. In 1988 both hulls had the pointier sponsons. The Pink Lady was the U-31 Circus and the School Bus was the U-00 Miller and for one race the U-00 Circus. It's a confusing story but I won't go into all that now. Before the 1989 season the PL was refitted with radiused or rounded sponsons but the SB did not. They kept it as is basically and just repaired the damage from the flip in San Diego in 88. Both boats were painted identically in 1989 and there was one small decal on the nose of the SB that is not on the PL. Now as far as the Dumas decals are concerned they are actually a combination of 88, 89, and 90. The real story of the boats is somewhat confusing so it's not surprising that Dumas is a little off on accuracy. The Dumas Circus is fine as a fun boat and I'm sure that is what their intention was when they started offering it. As far as 1/8 Scale Unlimited racing is concerned, it would need some modifications to meet the rules of either racing organization. I've seen some Dumas boats that have had mods made and ran well.

Now for the paint differences between 89-90 on the PL. It's really very subtle. The pink that is at the top edge of the sponson where it meets the airtrap...on the 89 ot rolls over that edge and then stops on the inside wall of the trap well above the canard wing. You can kind of see it in pic 3. On the 90 the pink goes all the way down below the canard wing. Also on the vertical wings they had one that was longer than the other and extended above the horizontal. Plus they had a U31 decal on the right vertical at the bottom. That is one of the decals included in the Dumas set. I sent a bunch of these pictures to Shann last week. I'll try to post them later.

 

[Gale54]

Hugh to answer the windshield question look at pic 3 above. That is the Pink Lady and working from front to back both boats have a swept trailing edge but the PL sweeps back from bottom to top with the top being the longest point. Now scroll up to pic 1. That is the School Bus, the 89 backup boat. The windshield sweeps back from top to bottom with the bottom being the longest point.

Now to answer the Dumas question...I can only assume that they were trying to duplicate the the 1989 Circus. Because as HJ stated it is really a melding of the PL and the SB. It has the shorter nose and inset transom of the PL but the sponsons of the SB. There are some more but those are the big ones. In 1988 both hulls had the pointier sponsons. The Pink Lady was the U-31 Circus and the School Bus was the U-00 Miller and for one race the U-00 Circus. It's a confusing story but I won't go into all that now. Before the 1989 season the PL was refitted with radiused or rounded sponsons but the SB did not. They kept it as is basically and just repaired the damage from the flip in San Diego in 88. Both boats were painted identically in 1989 and there was one small decal on the nose of the SB that is not on the PL. Now as far as the Dumas decals are concerned they are actually a combination of 88, 89, and 90. The real story of the boats is somewhat confusing so it's not surprising that Dumas is a little off on accuracy. The Dumas Circus is fine as a fun boat and I'm sure that is what their intention was when they started offering it. As far as 1/8 Scale Unlimited racing is concerned, it would need some modifications to meet the rules of either racing organization. I've seen some Dumas boats that have had mods made and ran well.

Now for the paint differences between 89-90 on the PL. It's really very subtle. The pink that is at the top edge of the sponson where it meets the airtrap...on the 89 ot rolls over that edge and then stops on the inside wall of the trap well above the canard wing. You can kind of see it in pic 3. On the 90 the pink goes all the way down below the canard wing. Also on the vertical wings they had one that was longer than the other and extended above the horizontal. Plus they had a U31 decal on the right vertical at the bottom. That is one of the decals included in the Dumas set. I sent a bunch of these pictures to Shann last week. I'll try to post them later.

Mike just want to jump in on this about the Dumas kit story. Dumas people went to the 1989 Seattle race to measure and take pictures of the boat. Remember in 1989 the main hull blew over in Syracuse race and broke in half? So the boat they saw was the back up. Thus the sponson and cowlings being different. Hope I did not upset you with my 2 cents just thought I would throw it in.

Don

 

[Mike McKnight]

Yeah I remember Chip broke the the primary hull in NY, I mentioned that earlier in the thread. But if they measured the boat at Seattle they made a couple of big mistakes then. One being the nose of the cockpit, they still have the shorter nose. The other is the transom. The School Bus has a flat transom except for small wing mount extentions. They did the inset transom that is on the PL transom. Plus the cowl they show on the box is for the PL too. That's why I kinda thought they morphed the two somehow...

 

[hugh hargett]

Yeah I remember Chip broke the the primary hull in NY, I mentioned that earlier in the thread. But if they measured the boat at Seattle they made a couple of big mistakes then. One being the nose of the cockpit, they still have the shorter nose. The other is the transom. The School Bus has a flat transom except for small wing mount extentions. They did the inset transom that is on the PL transom. Plus the cowl they show on the box is for the PL too. That's why I kinda thought they morphed the two somehow...

Is the circus you working on now a Newton Plan? I think Im more confused which one it is now lol. I can say that that it looks more like the SB to me. I wonder has this has changed with Dumas? The kit is about 100 dollars more now.It also looks like the pink lady has a bowline with more taper towards the water line. If I had the choice of hulls for racing Id much rather have the PL. So I envy you on that .Its a sharper looking sleeker hull. Does anyone have the dumas paint scheme sheet? Mine was stolen out of storage some years ago with alot of models I might add.

 

[Mike McKnight]

Shann was working on the 90 which is what started this thread. I am making a few last parts for the 89 School Bus and then it'll be ready for paint. Mine is a Troy McIntire glass hull that I heavily modified. It has sat on my shelf since 2003. It was not the hull I originally ordered from him but he told me to keep it while he built the right one. The molds that he had were made by Jeff Hunter I believe and are not available anymore. I have an old build thread somewhere but I can't find the old gallery. Anyway here are some pics of each to clarify which is which.

Here is the School Bus in 1989 MHR8401

Here is the Pink Lady from 1989 MHR8700

Now here is the Pink Lady from 1990

Hope this straightens it out some. By the way Hugh I may have that Dumas paint scheme. Give me a day and I will do my best to find it.

 

[shann harrison]

Mike,Could you resend them pictures I think I deleted them by mistake,of the 1990 Circus.my email is [email protected] now Im on a work trip and hopefully home next week friday.but if you cannot find the dumas color codes I should have them in the kit Im buying from Kevin Visconti.And in the same email could you get deep on the mods need for the dumas kit as well.Shann