Single F hydros/Twin F Hydros

[Don Ferrette]

While this is great to see a race like this shaping up I think some need to take off the rose colored glasses. While I'd be quick to loan or give a fellow racer pieces and parts to get them back on the water does anyone really think that another racer would hand over a complete boat to someone else to race?? I'm sure some of you will get on here and "say" you would but when it comes down to actually doing it?? How many people can actually afford to have back up boats anyways?? I'd like to see someone walk up to a twin pilot who brought an "extra" boat and tell him "so and so totaled his twin so we'd like to give him your extra one to race". We all like to have fun and enjoy the camaraderie but let's get real here, the only ones who will benefit from the back up boat deal is the ones with the deep pockets, that's why the IMPBA has a rule in place preventing it. Now this is only my opinion and some may not like it but I've been around this game long enough to know what gets said and what happens in the heat of battle are two different things.........

 

[Don Ferrette]

IMPBA use to have a 2 boat rule for the US-1 classes. The very reason was so that the guys with all of the knowledge, money and time could not enter every class and walk away with all of the trophies.

The two boat restriction was in place back when everyone ran time trial portions of US-1 competition. After the option to run the just top 5 or 20% in US-1 trials was allowed it enabled things to be opened up to allow racers to enter more than 2 boats, a restriction they had complained about for a long time. It was in place because of event time restraints and had nothing to do with keeping out the "knowledge, money and time" racers.

 

[julianconde]

While this is great to see a race like this shaping up I think some need to take off the rose colored glasses. While I'd be quick to loan or give a fellow racer pieces and parts to get them back on the water does anyone really think that another racer would hand over a complete boat to someone else to race?? I'm sure some of you will get on here and "say" you would but when it comes down to actually doing it?? How many people can actually afford to have back up boats anyways?? I'd like to see someone walk up to a twin pilot who brought an "extra" boat and tell him "so and so totaled his twin so we'd like to give him your extra one to race". We all like to have fun and enjoy the camaraderie but let's get real here, the only ones who will benefit from the back up boat deal is the ones with the deep pockets, that's why the IMPBA has a rule in place preventing it. Now this is only my opinion and some may not like it but I've been around this game long enough to know what gets said and what happens in the heat of battle are two different things.........

I agree with you Don. I have given away parts (P/L, bearings,shafts,servos, ect). But im sorry i dont think in the class i run that a Twin Pilot would just offer a Twin for someone else to drive Speacially when they cost around 4500 to well over 5500 dollars to put together. i for that reason have 2 Twins (101RS and 91RS) Roadrunner Extremes and carry both to a race. Not saying i have deep pockets but in the event some one destroys their Twin i can help with parts but as far as a boat for them to run I dont Think so unless they want to buy it.. my 2 cents.

I have had Racers gave me servos,batteries,Boom tube material,fuel,shafts,props,tanks,pipes,P/L, Cowling and im very thankful for those great racers that have helped me but a full rigged Twin thats a whole different thing..

Julian

 

[Mark Bullard]

Well I think that Andy has a different idea for sure for this race. He is right by the fact of racers driving or flying for many miles to break a boat in the first round and have to set out the rest of the race. Have did that a couple of times myself. The first time was in 1999 and the last time was a couple of weeks ago in Hobart. Now if I had a spare boat and it was allowed, you darn right I would pull it out of the trailer. As for as loaning a boat it to another racer the answer would be no but I would loan parts. So I guess this race would come under the term " If You Can't Run With The Big Dogs Don't Get Off The Dock "

 

[Andy Brown]

Don, I respect your experianced opinion. Please explain how entering 12 boats built by the best of the best with the best of the best parts, is LESS "deep pocket" than a guy flying in with two boats and a back up.

Nobody is going to ASK anyone to loan someone a boat, but I do know a few that would if they had it to spare.

P.S. Don, you nor I where there when the two boat rule was written. Maybe we don't know the true intent of the rule? Maybe some of the older boaters that were heavily involved with IMPBA leadership back in the 60's could shed some light.

I did attend several Internats in early 80's when eveyone ran trophey Trials. 1981, 1983, 1984, 1985. By 5 PM everyday, everyone had their boats cleaned up and many of us were floating around in the hotel pool soaking up the late afternoon Sun and talking boats. Good times with some of the greatest r/c boaters! TIME, was not an issue in anyone of those years.

 

[julianconde]

the way the ecomony you have to have deep pockets regardless of what class you run.(race fees, hotel,food,fuel, Nitro,boats ect ect) by the time your done with a nats you have easy 1 grand or more invested. but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled.

Julian

 

[Andy Brown]

the way the ecomony you have to have deep pockets regardless of what class you run.(race fees, hotel,food,fuel, Nitro,boats ect ect) by the time your done with a nats you have easy 1 grand or more invested. but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled.

Julian

"but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled."

OR easily Quadrupled.

 

[dwilfong]

when you get to the top of the game in any racing you need lots of money to play.

Why should this be any different. I don't think this race is for the local pond lizard.

It is what it is.

If you want to put on a "WORLD CLASS RACE" you do what needs to be done.

Andy do what you need to do and thy will come.

David

 

[julianconde]

the way the ecomony you have to have deep pockets regardless of what class you run.(race fees, hotel,food,fuel, Nitro,boats ect ect) by the time your done with a nats you have easy 1 grand or more invested. but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled.

Julian

"but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled."

OR easily Quadrupled.

THEN you will need to have deep pockets and the Twin guys depending on the motors they use will have to have even more deep pockets to ensure they have alot of spare boats, parts shafts, complete motors ect ect ect. So Don Ferrette is correct to race with the best of the best and have the best equipment you can buy you will have to dig deep in your pockets..

and i will quote Mark Bullard on this " If You Can't Run With The Big Dogs Don't Get Off The Dock "

Julian

 

[Andy Brown]

the way the ecomony you have to have deep pockets regardless of what class you run.(race fees, hotel,food,fuel, Nitro,boats ect ect) by the time your done with a nats you have easy 1 grand or more invested. but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled.

Julian

"but when someone is traveling from a different country to a Nats that cost can easy be doubled."

OR easily Quadrupled.

THEN you will need to have deep pockets and the Twin guys depending on the motors they use will have to have even more deep pockets to ensure they have alot of spare boats, parts shafts, complete motors ect ect ect. So Don Ferrette is correct to race with the best of the best and have the best equipment you can buy you will have to dig deep in your pockets..

and i will quote Mark Bullard on this " If You Can't Run With The Big Dogs Don't Get Off The Dock "

Julian

Julian,

$20 grand in SPARE parts/boats only keeps someone in the game if something bad happens. It won't put them in the winners circle!

Remember, if something bad happens like your engine blows, you hit a buoy and break a boom, you fold a prop on a turtle, or your boat stuffs and sinks to the bottom. You've all ready lost a round of points. Have something bad happen in two rounds and you're probably out of the tropheys.

Therefore having this massive amount of spare parts you are talking about won't increase anyones chance of winning. The reality is that it will give someone a chance to blow up another engine in the next heat, which serves to prove he has engine set up issues and the fact that he has 10 of them does nothing for his total in the points standings.

Bottom line is. His #1 boat better be his "A Game" and he better drive his "A Game" because no amount of spare stuff makes up for inferior set up and bad driving.

 

[julianconde]

ok we are not talking about this race. this is in general in the reply that you got to have deep pockets.. Its a no brainer and does not take a rocket scientist to agree what you just posted and i agree. but i always say Better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it.

Julian

 

[dwilfong]

If i come over for this race i will be Bringing an Back up .20 boat

You just never know what can happen

I was messing with props today and when a little big

The boat was going slow so i was way off the course when it stoped

Another guy running his gas twin offshore POS was told about it

He went past it 3 times before running it over

Lake lizard! <_<

 

[wayne middlemiss]

If i come over for this race i will be Bringing an Back up .20 boat

You just never know what can happen

I was messing with props today and when a little big

The boat was going slow so i was way off the course when it stoped

Another guy running his gas twin offshore POS was told about it

He went past it 3 times before running it over

that would be another issue that needs to be adressed on club days greg, it realy shoud be done like a race day class for class not a all in smash up derby

 

[bzubee]

Andy this sounds really cool but if you go to a back up boat you should still lose your points. I can't afford to have back up boats just sitting around as I'm sure many other racers will agree.

Jeff,

I'm glad you like the format. We are still adjusting it. I hope to see you here. It will be a great race. We are working out the details and more information will be available soon.

Jeff, these are my thoughts on back up boats.

IMPBA use to have a 2 boat rule for the US-1 classes. The very reason was so that the guys with all of the knowledge, money and time could not enter every class and walk away with all of the trophies. I thought it was a good idea because I saw the results from the Baltimore, Md. NAMBA nats when I was first getting into boating back in about 1972. Herb and Ricki Stewart won 80% of the trophies. At least it seemed like that many. They had a truck load of boats and they both got trophies in a bunch of classes.

Some years later IMPBA decided to allow multiple boats to be entered into US-1 classes by one contestant. Seems like they did this when Internats entries became less in the 1990's. ??? So today there are no limits on how many boats an IMPBA member can enter in a race or the IMPBA Internats.

Jeff, you and I both know at least a couple of very good racers that show up at the races with 12 boats. And sometimes they leave the race with nearly as many trophies.

You and I and a bunch of other guys can't afford to support more than 1 or 2 or maybe 3 boats to race. So where is the fairness with these "deep pocket", "12 boat" guys? Are you and other racers questioning the fairness in racers showing up with 12 boats?

Jeff, my purpose in allowing back up boats is for the UNLIKELY event that someone's boat becomes severely damaged to the point of putting him out of the race.

He came to race and we are putting on a race to have full heats, full of good competitive race boats. Not to have a guy side lined and not to see how many heats we can combine because of attrition.

There are racers that will travel a long distance for this race. What if a guy comes from Australia or Europe and his boat gets cut in half in the first heat? What do we say? "Sorry bud, get on the plane and go home because IMPBA has this "deep pocket" rule, so your done? "

"Oh and BTW Mr. Australian, It is ok with the IMPBA if you had entered 11 high dollar, custom built, best of everything boats, but if you bring two average boats and your old 15 year old beater as a back up in case some guy looses radio and cuts your good boat in half, sorry but you can't do that!"

Jeff, I have raced at the NAVIGA world champs several times. They allow back up boats. Some racers, but not most, do bring back up boats. I can not say that I have seen the ability to run a back up boat give anyone an unfair advantage.

Someone here will say: "But if a guy can bring two boats for every class he could have a rough water boat and a calm water boat. That would be an unfair advantage." I guess he could. But would he be any different than the guy that entered 12 classes? Well, I guess he would if he entered 12 classes and brought 24 boats!

The bottom line is this. I see allowing a back up boat as a practical solution to the guy that says, "Well I don't know if I want to travel 10,000 miles to a race in which I could get side lined if my only two boats get destroyed." My answer to him is, "bring your two boats". "If they get destroyed we will find you two more boats that are not being raced by another competitor so you can continue in this competition."

Is that not what happens at any give race when someone breaks an engine, losses a shaft, folds a prop, explodes a sponson, looses a cowl...and another competitor walks up and says, "here ya go!" "I have a spare cowl you can borrow. Can I help you get it mounted?"

Well in the case of my race, you can loan your competitor your spare boat if his sinks in 60' of water!

Hey Andy neat thing with your idea now is with 2.4 radios it is real easy to switch over to someones boats with a push of a couple of buttons.

 

[Joe Warren]

If attending this race?? Set up a spare boat with all of the parts you have been haulin around....We normally carry 2 to 3 different Twins in the trailer....Much Better than a Pile of Parts!!!!!!! I would like to see a race flier so we can put this Race in next years schedule of events to attend!!!!!!!Many of us decide what races we want to atttend as early as january So the time can be scheduled off.....

 

[Andy Brown]

If attending this race?? Set up a spare boat with all of the parts you have been haulin around....We normally carry 2 to 3 different Twins in the trailer....Much Better than a Pile of Parts!!!!!!! I would like to see a race flier so we can put this Race in next years schedule of events to attend!!!!!!!Many of us decide what races we want to atttend as early as january So the time can be scheduled off.....

We plan to have a definate date and full race details by mid Oct. Stay tuned!

 

[dr gary turner]

This posting was started several months ago about a seperate class or category consisting of single F-Hydros. At the Fall Nats the single F-hydro class was offered and was vary well attended and the competition and speed was outstanding. I suspect it will continue to be offered at many races. In time and I don't know how much time the group will need to be proposed the X-HYDRO CLASS.

 

[julianconde]

X hydro will also consist of Twins thats in namba rules. the new class would have to be Single X Hydro and Single F Hydro.