question for West Systems users

[longballlumber]

I have run into an issue twice now. 2 nights ago I mixed up a batch of 105 resin and 206 hardener. I then coated some bare wood for sealing. After sealing the bare wood I added some 407 filler and did some work.

Well the next day (near 24 hours) the wood that I coated did not fully cure, it was still tacky. However, the area I used the filler cured just fine. My assumption was that maybe I didn’t mix the epoxy good enough for coating, and then when I added the filler it got mixed better.

Then, last night I tried it again. Went down this morning and “Son of a… Gun” it did it again.

What usually goes bad first the resin or the hardener? Do I need to replace both? They both are a few years old (4+ I am guessing).

Thanks for your input...

Mike Ball

 

[Buckshot]

Dunno?

I've been using the same can of 105 resin, and 207 hardener (group B size)now for about 5 yrs with no problem.

-Buck-

 

[yurkanip]

longball, I ran into a problem a while back and actually have a post somewhere here, a while back. I finished a rigger, west system inside and out, then tried to stain /seal over that with poly....was tacky for weeks. I called west, and they gave some great suggestions as to what problems I had. They suggested, always staining first, THEN sealing in with west system, if that is what you want in terms of protection of the wood. Also stated that it often times will not cure correctly unless it is mixed for at least a minute. (problem if using as a finish, is if you mix too quickly, you get a lot of bubbles, and those bubbles are directly transfered to the hull. I have had great luck with clear coating over west, after final coat. both with polycrylic, polyurethane (oil), and also krylon rattle can. then clear.

Back to the original question that you asked, when I called West system they stated, that the only thing that won't dry on west systems, is ALKYD stains. this is deck stains, thompsons water seal type of product.

Hope this helps...and my suggestion is to mix thoroughly..and it will dry. West system is great. stuff, sorry that yours did not turn out soo great the last few times.

 

[Mark Leyde]

What usually goes bad first the resin or the hardener? Do I need to replace both? They both are a few years old (4+ I am guessing).
Thanks for your input...

Mike Ball

The hardener goes bad. If you call one of the epoxy companies. They will tell you that it only has a shelf life of about one year.

 

[Terry Keeley]

I'd give them a call, they have excellent tech support!

 

[longballlumber]

I'd give them a call, they have excellent tech support!

Hey Terry,

How go's it!!!

I was told by a well respected source that Tempature my be the issue. My basement can be a steemy 58 degrees while I am not down there. Even with my space heater on it never gets above the low 60's down there. I am going to let it sit for a few days and see if it cures.

Thanks

mike

 

[Brad Christy]

Mike,

I have found that when I seal a boat, sometimes it feels tacky for quite some time. What I have found, though, is that is just FEELS tacky. If I go ahead and scrape it with a razor blade, it's fine.

BTW, my hardener is about five years old. It has turned a dark red from the moisture it has absorbed attacking the steel can it's in. It still hardens up just fine. I'm just about out, so I've gotten a new can and intend on throwing out what's left of the old (less than 1/2" in the bottom of a quart can), but otherwise, I'd still be using it.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Blackout]

My West Systems hardener and epoxy is around 7 years old and it still works great. The color has changed but that is suppose to be normal.

 

[Terry Keeley]

I'd give them a call, they have excellent tech support!

Hey Terry,

How go's it!!!

I was told by a well respected source that Tempature my be the issue. My basement can be a steemy 58 degrees while I am not down there. Even with my space heater on it never gets above the low 60's down there. I am going to let it sit for a few days and see if it cures.

Thanks

mike

Doin' good, can't wait til the water is soft!

Yup, could just be slowwww...

 

[Milner]

I too have been using 5 year old hardener without apparent issue other than color change. I'd suggest 205 hardener if it's less than 65F consistently and working in thin layers. Pot life at 60F will still be quite long, but at least it will cure. As a side note on mixing practice, I've started dispensing and doing initial mixing in one cup and then pouring into a second cup for final mixing. That's what is recommended by the suppliers to avoid having a layer of poorly mixed resin on the sides and bottom of the mixing container.

Brent

I have run into an issue twice now. 2 nights ago I mixed up a batch of 105 resin and 206 hardener. I then coated some bare wood for sealing. After sealing the bare wood I added some 407 filler and did some work.
Well the next day (near 24 hours) the wood that I coated did not fully cure, it was still tacky. However, the area I used the filler cured just fine. My assumption was that maybe I didn’t mix the epoxy good enough for coating, and then when I added the filler it got mixed better.

Then, last night I tried it again. Went down this morning and “Son of a… Gun” it did it again.

What usually goes bad first the resin or the hardener? Do I need to replace both? They both are a few years old (4+ I am guessing).

Thanks for your input...

Mike Ball

 

[Douglas P Shepherd]

I too have been using 5 year old hardener without apparent issue other than color change. I'd suggest 205 hardener if it's less than 65F consistently and working in thin layers. Pot life at 60F will still be quite long, but at least it will cure. As a side note on mixing practice, I've started dispensing and doing initial mixing in one cup and then pouring into a second cup for final mixing. That's what is recommended by the suppliers to avoid having a layer of poorly mixed resin on the sides and bottom of the mixing container.
Brent

I have run into an issue twice now. 2 nights ago I mixed up a batch of 105 resin and 206 hardener. I then coated some bare wood for sealing. After sealing the bare wood I added some 407 filler and did some work.
Well the next day (near 24 hours) the wood that I coated did not fully cure, it was still tacky. However, the area I used the filler cured just fine. My assumption was that maybe I didn't mix the epoxy good enough for coating, and then when I added the filler it got mixed better.

Then, last night I tried it again. Went down this morning and "Son of a… Gun" it did it again.

What usually goes bad first the resin or the hardener? Do I need to replace both? They both are a few years old (4+ I am guessing).

Thanks for your input...

Mike Ball

West system is a thermo set epoxy. Meaning the thinner the coat is the longer it will TAKE TO GO OFF. Mixing is major to the epoxy working correctly!!!! 3 to 4 min and mixing. Temp is also major 40 degs No less. Also do not use oil type heat with west systems. It will Not go off correctly. Apply some heat to the area and it should Kick off. Do not get the surface over 150 degs. Doug

 

[Preston_Hall]

I'd give them a call, they have excellent tech support!

Hey Terry,

How go's it!!!

I was told by a well respected source that Tempature my be the issue. My basement can be a steemy 58 degrees while I am not down there. Even with my space heater on it never gets above the low 60's down there. I am going to let it sit for a few days and see if it cures.

Thanks

mike

Agreed. Lay it in a window that gets sun light and see what happens. I assume you are married since you are restricted to the basement so the window may be a problem. :lol:

 

[Preston_Hall]

Mike,
I have found that when I seal a boat, sometimes it feels tacky for quite some time. What I have found, though, is that is just FEELS tacky. If I go ahead and scrape it with a razor blade, it's fine.

BTW, my hardener is about five years old. It has turned a dark red from the moisture it has absorbed attacking the steel can it's in. It still hardens up just fine. I'm just about out, so I've gotten a new can and intend on throwing out what's left of the old (less than 1/2" in the bottom of a quart can), but otherwise, I'd still be using it.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Second that.

 

[longballlumber]

Agreed. Lay it in a window that gets sun light and see what happens. I assume you are married since you are restricted to the basement so the window may be a problem. :lol:

Thanks for everyone's input. I took the boat upstairs and it cured fine overnight!!!!

Funny you mention that Preston. First thing that my wife asked me when I broght the hull upstairs was, "What is that doing up here?"... LOL :lol:

 

[Don Ferrette]

Agreed. Lay it in a window that gets sun light and see what happens. I assume you are married since you are restricted to the basement so the window may be a problem. :lol:

Thanks for everyone's input. I took the boat upstairs and it cured fine overnight!!!!

Funny you mention that Preston. First thing that my wife asked me when I broght the hull upstairs was, "What is that doing up here?"... LOL :lol:

Yup, learned a long time ago with epoxy if ya can't get the shop to 65 degrees or better bring it inside. At least the epoxy won't stink up the house like bondo or poly resin will. When ya got a wife with a nose like a bloodhound you quickly learn what you can sneak in and what you can't. Years ago when we were still in an apartment I mixed up about a half dollar sized amount of bondo out on the balcony. After I had applied it on the part I was working on I brought it inside where it was warm (it was winter). I had just finished closing the sliding glass door when from the master bedroom I heard "what's that funny smell?" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[SayMikey]

Agreed. Lay it in a window that gets sun light and see what happens. I assume you are married since you are restricted to the basement so the window may be a problem. :lol:

Thanks for everyone's input. I took the boat upstairs and it cured fine overnight!!!!

Funny you mention that Preston. First thing that my wife asked me when I broght the hull upstairs was, "What is that doing up here?"... LOL :lol:

Yup, learned a long time ago with epoxy if ya can't get the shop to 65 degrees or better bring it inside. At least the epoxy won't stink up the house like bondo or poly resin will. When ya got a wife with a nose like a bloodhound you quickly learn what you can sneak in and what you can't. Years ago when we were still in an apartment I mixed up about a half dollar sized amount of bondo out on the balcony. After I had applied it on the part I was working on I brought it inside where it was warm (it was winter). I had just finished closing the sliding glass door when from the master bedroom I heard "what's that funny smell?" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Last winter i made cowls all winter long in the spare bedroom a table and lots of drop cloths. My wife liked it soo much she made most of them. This winter she got a rash on the first one and sent me back to the garage too cold to work let alone mix epoxy................

 

[dave roach]

Mikey

I would have sent the wife to the garage LOL.

Dave Roach

 

[Bob Howard]

MikeyI would have sent the wife to the garage LOL.

Dave Roach

Sounds like you arn't married

Bob

 

[Brad Christy]

MikeyI would have sent the wife to the garage LOL.

Dave Roach

Sounds like you arn't married

Bob

Bob,

Yes he is and no he wouldn't have.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

 

[Bert Dygert]

Mike,

The West Systems 206 hardener is heat sensitive. The can says do not use under 60 degree's F. You need to make sure your shop is in the mid 60's and it shouldn't have an issue. You may want to bring your resin and hardener up to room temperature before using. It takes about 2 hours to heat up the resin and hardener to room temp. The basement is a good place to store them when not in use. You could try to find someone with access to a heat space like a paint oven or boiler room to see if you can get your project to kick off. Just make sure it's not over 150 like Doug mentioned.

Good Luck.