NAMBA lipo rules

[HTV Boats]

Just a thought on setting up proceedures. My living is in the insurance business and as an agent I get accident calls every day. No once gets up in the morning and says I think I'll have an accident today. That's why they call it an accident. What makes something on purpose is directly violating known proceedures to mitigate losses. (safety proceedures) This moves the liability to the individual and helps an organization or company off the legal hook. As an organization having safety proceedures in place helps tremendously in any lidigation. Sometimes just common sense documented and applied will make a case.

To say nothing is needed and compare to other hazards does not move the FE racer forward. Nitro and Gas have risks that have been addressed and certainly can be improved. Keep this from becoming FE vs Fuel as we all wan't to race. I will not vote on an issue that I have no experience with so it is very important for FE guys to lead the way to safety in their future. We have to avoid hearsay and use real world facts. The lawyers will use both if we give them the chance.

 

[Andrewg]

Don

You are right on one thing at least. teh stress on cells during rracing is higher than cell phones. But Like cell phones racers use cells designed for the purpose tfor which they are used.

However you share a common misconception about fire risks. To deal with those risks you need to identify accurately when and where they arise. Fire is a risk which emerges in two specific palces 1. overcharging & 2. after damage.

Most of the early incidents to which you refer occurrred when the use of balancers was not the rule and the use of non-lipo chargers was and people kept/charged damaged cells

Electric power tools have ciruitry to detect overcharging and over discharge.

Modellors use them too. To prevent the fire risk associated with overcharge, we use a balancer which ensures every cell is charged within its spec. If specs are exceeded and there is a significant margin - an alarm sounds. A pot doesnt prevent a fire - a balancer does.

Like power tools during discharge we use a voltage cutoff in our escs. As a rule we never reach it as we dont use more than 50% discharge. However this area is not a fire risk with cells in their normal state, except where cells are in parallel pairs.

Overdischarge damages cells and prevents recharge. Packs puffed by overcharging are always discharged prior to disposal so they are stable and not a fire hazard.

The second fire risk is damage. Damaged cells should not be recharged or rescued - they should be discharged and then disposed of. It is that simple. Once discharged they dont constitute a fire hazard.

 

[Paul Pachmayer]

Hi Guys,

Don, don't worry about the safety rules so much, they are being worked on and will be implemented. Actually all rules are being worked on step by step right now so hopefully nothing is overlooked. As these rules get finallized they will be posted here in steps so everyone can see them. We all understand the potential problems associated with current lipo batteries and belive me they will be addressed.

O well.. Im just concerned about the cost and some of the safety issues with liops.. i have quite a few lipos myself and all in all they do perform well but are they NESSARY TO MAKE BETTER RC BOATING....?

Absolutely. The current state of electric boat racing is not healthy. The introduction of Lipoy cells has changed the face of electric racing and other than the up front cost my racing budget for cells has decreased dramaticly since I started using lipos. I realized a savings after the first solid year of using them. I also haven't experianced 1 single problem using these cells.

Paul.

 

[Grimracer]

Paul,

If im wrong let me know.

Lipos have changed the face of Areomodling.. I have yet to see any huge gains in any form of racing ( boats or cars or other ) because of liops.

Question still remains.. Will lipos make rc boat racing better... better might be faster ( personally i dont think faster makes " better" boating ), better might be safer, better might be cheaper, better might be more fun ( subjective to the win or loss of the participant)... heck maybe better is just pushing technology for the sake of pushing technology...

Do lipos make RC aircraft fly better? That is an easy answer. Do lipos make for better RC boat racing? Not so easy to answer...

ROCK ON men and thanks Paul for your knowledge.. its very valuable.

Grim

 

[Darin Jordan]

I have yet to see any huge gains in any form of racing ( boats or cars or other ) because of liops.

That's because they haven't been LEGAL for boat or car racing...

And I don't think it's so "hard to answer"...

They will be lighter...

They will provide longer run-times...

They will MAKE it possible for true heads up competition against Nitro/Gas using THEIR course and THEIR race-lengths...

They will be cheaper over the course of a season... maybe even provide multiple seasons of competitive use... (this one is enough for me!)

They will make boats FASTER...

They will make for more interesting motor/hull combinations... (things can get bigger... which for some of you older guys with failing eyesight and reflexes should be a MAJOR bonus...)

They will (already have) make RC boats more appealing to a wider audience... (just look at all the Nitro/Gas guys inquiring about getting involved!)...

They will be MORE FUN! (based on all of the above and then some...)

 

[Grimracer]

Thats it then. Me.. im not a nube but having experts on this board are very important for all..It looks like Lipos are the future of RC boat racing..

One more question..Tell me how you feel about Lipos in the hands of a RTR boat pilot.

Lets get on with it then.. lets go racing.

Thanks guys

Grim

 

[BoatDoc]

They will MAKE it possible for true heads up competition against Nitro/Gas using THEIR course and THEIR race-lengths...

outside of "open" power classes, i don't see any need for this. i run FE because i want to run FE. i, and many others, have no interest in racing with nitro/gas. been there, done that, no interest in it anymore. i'm all about faster boats, lighter boats, and longer running boats. but the whole "ooooh, now we can run with the fuel guys" argument is driving me nuts. if you want to run with nitro, get a nitro boat. not pickin' on you darin, you just happened to mention it.

 

[Darin Jordan]

if you want to run with nitro, get a nitro boat. not pickin' on you darin, you just happened to mention it.

NO Problem dude... I'm with you... I have NO desire to run WITH the Nitro guys (No offense... I just don't desire it... LOVE watching, however! )... quite frankly, we'd lose lakes here in the Pacific Northwest if there were Nitro/Gas boats on them... Some of the lakes they wouldn't be able to run have actually invited us to come check out...

I'm all about FE, but I mentioned the combo thing because it IS important to some people... and it IS a valid "benefit"...

 

[Pagemaster]

They will MAKE it possible for true heads up competition against Nitro/Gas using THEIR course and THEIR race-lengths...

I hope to be able to try this. I have no other choice right now. There are zero electric racers in my area. I have been trying

to round them up for years with poor results.

Steven

 

[Darin Jordan]

I have been trying to round them up for years with poor results.
Steven

Lead by example Steve! Kick their A$$e$ and they will come!!

 

[Pagemaster]

I have been trying to round them up for years with poor results.
Steven

Lead by example Steve! Kick their A$$e$ and they will come!!

Although I would love to Darin. I want to run a similar speed. The .21 namba mono class is very strong around here.

I have had some input from some guys about what will work. I don't want to run much faster or slower.

I'm gathering parts for a q mono lipo boat. I would love input in a new thread if someone has some.

 

[Grimracer]

To all, I quick comment if I may.

I race Nitro boats because I like the challenge. I do not have anything against FE or gas for that matter. I just like all the challenges that a nitro motor gives me. I like the sound when a pipe stages and what it takes to make a boat do that. I like the challenge of tying to be a better tuner then the next guy.. I like the engine talk and having to read the weather to get a good win.

You see.. I like FE boats too.. they have some very cool aspects as well.. but to mix nitro and electric does not make better boating.. just different boating....

To say that ones is better because its faster.. is a bunch of BS.. i think we all agree to that.. dont we...

Darin...

You post was good.. darn good.. im still not seeing how that makes better boat racing... all things = right now.. you have the same thing.. I wider audience however makes a bunch of sense. Good one there for sure.

ROCK ON

Grimracer

 

[HTV Boats]

I have been trying to round them up for years with poor results.
Steven

Lead by example Steve! Kick their A$$e$ and they will come!!

Racing nitro vs FE is apples and oranges. If someone can come up with a rule structure to race heads up be my guest. If you think the LiPo discussion is hot propose some class rules to mix them all. Best case is only in an open or run what ya brung class. King of the hill is worth bragging rights.

I think most nitro racers more than respect how fast FE is going. Kicking our ass may be gratifying but won't increase events. Stable pricing and knowing our investment won't be obsolete before the paint drys will help. I would build an FE tunnel tomorrow if I knew it might be competative in a year or two. Notice fro me it's a tunnel and others want their favorites. Thats another obstacle too many choices.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Lead by example Steve! Kick their A$$e$ and they will come!!

Kicking our ass may be gratifying but won't increase events.

Guys... You need to lighten up... I was just kidding around... Note the smiley at the end of the quote...

 

[HTV Boats]

Lead by example Steve! Kick their A$$e$ and they will come!!

Kicking our ass may be gratifying but won't increase events.

Guys... You need to lighten up... I was just kidding around... Note the smiley at the end of the quote...

Smiley noted, I think we all would like to see our sport, hobby advance and these discussions do just that.

 

[brooks93]

Lead by example Steve! Kick their A$$e$ and they will come!!

Kicking our ass may be gratifying but won't increase events.

Guys... You need to lighten up... I was just kidding around... Note the smiley at the end of the quote...

Smiley noted, I think we all would like to see our sport, hobby advance and these discussions do just that.

I don't thing anyone is trying to write rules to put nitro vs FE or gas vs FE. The only class's that is fair for either are the open class's and maybe 1/8th with some restrictions to our FE power.

 

[Darin Jordan]

Hey Guys... Early rumors have it that "...all proposals passed"... If that's accurate, it will mean that NAMBA will operatate under the following rules power:

1) Lipos and similiar chems are legal. Any other "new chem" must be approved by the club through documentation, etc...

2) Paralleling limited to 2P

3) 10,000mah limits for N thru Q, 12,000mah limit for S & T

4) 1/8th scale to use T-power specs

plus the 1/6th mile course was approved...

That's all UNOFFICIAL, but what the current rumors on the "other" board are...

 

[drobie]

One more question..Tell me how you feel about Lipos in the hands of a RTR boat pilot.Grim

I'll jump on this Grim, because no one else seems to.

RTR aircraft are already shipping with lipos. I don't know anything about corporate liability, but if you include a charger and ESCs with cutoffs (like my little Blade CX), that's a big step in the right direction.

C rates are steadily moving up, and with the SV amps draws, you can probably get a lot of performance increase out of a relatively tame lipo pack. By tame I mean an application with requirents that don't get too close to pack capacity.

Maybe we need some time to abuse them before you start shipping RTR boats with them. Then again, I don't think you guys want Kyosho or Traxxas to be the first.

I'm sure their product development teams are already working on something they think will top the SV. Could lipos be part of their design?

 

[Grimracer]

Thanks Doug...

For me its not all about being first just the best we can.. and with this make RC boating as fun, fast and EASY TO GET for the new person as possible.

Good answer my friend

Take care

Grim

 

[Flyguy55]

Hi Grim

Im an old retired Nitro Racer.

I really like the SV 27. I have 2 of them. I raced them last weekend in WWIII and placed in 2 of 3 classes with the stock power system.

But my opinion, its too fast for first time boaters , and not enough tips to make them handle well.

Look on E bay to see how many are forsale.

So I wouldnt suggest Lipos . I run Lipos , I added adjustable trim tabs and bigger turn fins. It ran best with a 645 cupped prop.temps about 100 deg.

I put a SP 700 SC in one of my boats for LSO , and its a great combanation, controlable , good handling.

competive speed in that class.

A much better beginners boat.

Dick Roberts

Abq NM