Motor Break in. When is tight to tight

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Hyaden there was alot of used engines in that time period but ya i hear ya lol.Thanks for that post Hydro as that is where my pipe i set now.Anthony not sure what you mean on the restriction at 0.050 on the head. i would hope that is not the head clearance. Thanks all for your help. Still need to get to the lake.

Jeff
 
Jeff, Tony is referring to a .050 water oulet in the cooling jacket. An easy way to do this is to solder the rudder fitting shut, and drill a .050 hole in the solder.
 
Im down to a .030 hole in the rudder fitting, and still have to use a zip tie around the water line to get heat in the motor.
 
.020" to .030" is where all my water outlets are. depends on the engine & hull. riggers & my k&b ob's run down near the .020" end. riggers run under less load when set up correctly, & need less cooling because of it. pushing a mono thru the water requires more water, imo. at least that's the way it works on my hulls.i prefer to restrict the water at the outlet. restricting at the inlet & having a larger outlet hole than the restricted inlet can cause the cooling system to not fill completely. that can cause air pockets & hot spots, leading to detonation. i have never had a water line come off doing it this way, even on my screaming fast jae .21. i just make sure i use large enough fittings & small enough tubing that it is a TIGHT fit. also, drill your outlet hole (if you do it this way) right next to the original outlet, so you get full circulation. start small, it's much easier to enlarge a hole than shrink it.........remember that we're trying to get temps up to 180 to 220 degrees. want a comparison? run your car down the highway for 10 miles, then stop & pop the hood & lay your hand on the radiator (be careful, it WILL be hot). that's 180 - 220. waaaay hotter than most folks believe. once you do that, you might realize that your boats are running much cooler than they should. temp guns are useful, but just slowing down coming in to shore & the few second delay in getting a temp reading can mean 20+ degrees less than running down the straights at wot. i've used one of the venom battery moniters that record temps, i was surprised at the differance. on my nitro buggies, i can get a temp reading much quicker, so i know the venom reads fairly accurately. what i read on the beach & what i recorded on the pond have been as much as 30 degrees different...........proper temps mean more power & longer engine life!
 
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There can/may/should/might be a ton of engineering involved in where the temp should be for these engines. It would be interesting to hear from someone who actually understands the relationship between the materials, expansion, target expansion, etc... I wonder if anyone can add something like that..
 
Hey Guys

Know this has been a topic before and have read alot of past posts on this. But when is a engine to tight to just heat up and heat cycle? Personally i have never done this heat cycling stuff. i have a new nova rossi that so tight at TDC that its impossible to move it past TDC with out a wrench and that is with the plug out. What are your suggestions? Can i still heat the motor up prior to starting when its this tight? Don't have a heat gun but what other means can i do to heat it up prior to starting? Any help would be great.

Thanks in advance

Jeff

ps i have had it started very briefly which it stopped very quickly. Nervous of all the strain being put on the motor
Jeff the Danger is the motor can & will pull the bottom out of the rod if it is blocking hard at the top. the correct fitting piston & sleeve the piston pin hole should be about 50 percent up into the Top of the exhaust port hole if you have it all out out and are testing by hand fit. If the piston stops traveling way before this you need to be very careful with Rpms......A little motor oil thru the ex port hole will help the parts to slide together.Sometimes WD40 or other thin lubs make them Bark as they are traveling across TDC. Be careful or you will pull the bottom out of the connecting rod
 
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Thanks joe as that is what i was thinking as well. I never checked the fit by hand prior to running. just new it was tight. Chekcing it now the wrist pin is just out of the exaust window approaching TDC
 
Thanks joe as that is what i was thinking as well. I never checked the fit by hand prior to running. just new it was tight. Chekcing it now the wrist pin is just out of the exaust window approaching TDC
Man that is Tight. Be careful with it and you will have a engine that will keep the fit a long time. ALSO Make sure to use a torque wrench to secure the head bolts 10 inch lbs is all it needs in a cross pattern. Small Bore Engines are very critical on head bolt torque being correct. You can easily distort the case by over tightning the head bolt. this adds crush to the case and the upper half of the liner.
 
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There can/may/should/might be a ton of engineering involved in where the temp should be for these engines. It would be interesting to hear from someone who actually understands the relationship between the materials, expansion, target expansion, etc... I wonder if anyone can add something like that..
This guy does it all the time :huh: :D

Modern day ABC & AAC engines use metallurgy that requires a tight piston liner fit. High silicon aluminum piston materials, such as RSP-444T6 (30% silicon), will need a tight fit. This is because of the piston's low expansion rate when compared to the liner's higher expansion rate. Liner materials such as #360 brass, C54400 phosphor bronze, 4032 silicon aluminum or the tri-metal liner materials used in engines will require a tight fit when fitted at room temperature.

To facilitate more rapid break in time, use an airplane propeller with no water cooling for break in. A 10" X 7" pitch, left hand APC propeller, cut to 8" X 7" pitch works for a .40 cuin outboard type engine. A reliable tachometer should be used to determine the needle setting for maximum RPM. Fuel used is 15% nitro with 5 ozs of de-gummed castor added to each gallon of fuel. 21/2 to 3 gallons of fuel running at WOT usually is sufficient to break in a .40 size engine.

Jim Allen
 
yeah,.. he does... and he does it well... But I guess I was thinking more like "the initial interference with P/L "whatever" is 0.002. This is the nominal by design and very with manufacturing tolerance.. The intended interfere at ??F for the life of the engine is designed to be 0.001. By design, 2 hours at ???f, will get this tolerance ,..;. bla bla...

too much thinking and not enough education here I suppose
 
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Sometimes the deck on the case can be marginal lower and allow the piston to travel futher into the taper. Sometimes the same liner assembly will fit entirely different into a different case.
 
Sorry Joe reading what i wrote it was interpreted wrong. What i was saying is that wrist pin was traveling past the exhaust window so its out of the window but just out on the top end side. So i'm on the good side lol. But when the engine locks up and it squeeks to get the piston free is not a nice sound on an expensive engine. i closed up the water exit to the .050 already so its just a matter of getting back to the lake. Thanks all for your input.

Jeff
 
yeah,.. he does... and he does it well... But I guess I was thinking more like "the initial interference with P/L "whatever" is 0.002. This is the nominal by design and very with manufacturing tolerance.. The intended interfere at ??F for the life of the engine is designed to be 0.001. By design, 2 hours at ???f, will get this tolerance ,..;. bla bla...

too much thinking and not enough education here I suppose
Where the piston will stop in a clean liner, measured from the top of the liner, is referred to as the crunch amount. This amount will vary from engine to engine because of the different amounts of taper that can be found in liners as well as on the tops of pistons. Henry Nelson & I have found that the correct amount of taper on both the piston & the liner is controlled by the length of the stroke. Shorter strokes can stand stepper tapers on both & longer strokes just the opposite, but the crunch amount will be determined by the alloys used. Only trial & error testing will tell you what the best numbers are for any given situation.

For example: in my .8966 cuin engine with a bore of 1.125" & a stroke of .902" the best taper amount for the liner length of 1.635" was .007". This would mean that the change in diameter from the top of the exhaust to the top of the stroke would be .0021492" or .0010746"/ side. This change is measured over a distance of .502". The crunch amount is .240" to .245" measured from the liner's top. The piston's top taper is .002"/.100" distance. When both amounts are correct there will be a very distinct wear band at the .100" mark on the piston. Many different taper combinations were tested before arriving at the final numbers. These numbers are used with Mahle 138 piston material & liners made of #360 free machining brass. Alloys such as RSP 444 will require a much tighter fit & a different alloy for the liner.

Engines that have the correct numbers will last indefinitely, even when different alloys are being used.

Jim Allen
 
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Sorry Joe reading what i wrote it was interpreted wrong. What i was saying is that wrist pin was traveling past the exhaust window so its out of the window but just out on the top end side. So i'm on the good side lol. But when the engine locks up and it squeeks to get the piston free is not a nice sound on an expensive engine. i closed up the water exit to the .050 already so its just a matter of getting back to the lake. Thanks all for your input.

Jeff
Jeff Frank Orlic offers a new cooling head that about 50 percent of the stk size water capacity has been removed. This allows the engine to make heat.
 
Thanks again Joe. I already contacted Frank about his products and all he carries is a carb for this motor.

Jeff
 
Thanks again Joe. I already contacted Frank about his products and all he carries is a carb for this motor.

Jeff
Well he has sold a ton of them, Someone on here must have one?
 
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Jeff just get it in the water under load running rich but lean enough to launch.If the motor wont heat up restrict some water. And dont run the piss out of it half throttle 3-4 tanks and you should be good to go. Let the motor come in on its own,you will know when its time to lean a little
 
Thanks guys yes i think if i get a half second to do any thing other than work i just may get it in the water. Thanks

all
 
Jeff, I can make you a water jacket if you would like. just let me know what size hole you want in it, and where. PM me if interested. I wont make anymore with the 10-32 fitting in them as its too much flow.

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