Copying of Engineered Products

[rumrunner]

+1 Kris is a stand up guy . He will help you any way he can.

 

[Steve Seebold]

I make running gear for gas boats, but I absolutely refuse to make an exact copy of something someone has made without that persons permission.

I was at a local pond about 3 years ago and I was approached by someone who asked if I could duplicate the prop pitch gage that Steve Wood makes. My answer was , yes I can, but without Steves permission, I would not do it.

I have been asked by other boaters to copy running gear and I absolutely refuse to do it.

 

[moparbarn]

Jim & Mark, you are barking up the wrong tree. Jim, you started the same thread over on JRCBD where Kris is not a member to defend himself from being essentially called a thief. Are you going to leave the 1 or 2 lines you posted there to be possibly be taken out of context, without posting the entire story? Or does someone have to do it for you there also, as Kris was forced to do here??? You are absolutely correct in your thoughts & feelings about copying/splashing/ripping off designs, but Kris ain't your man.

 

[Kris Flynn]

ahhh HA, so this Jim guy has been slagging me off on various sites....you will be hearing from my LAWYER PAL

oh wait, I dont give a f... what you think because I have done nothing wrong, you are the one lacking intergrity taking down this road. If you were a MAN you could have spoken to me about this in a private message. Well done Jim, hope it made you feel better.

I am now waiting for the admins to delete this (not that i want them to) so all these people look like good guys again, instead of what and who they actually are. Where is Mark and Dave in this? Hiding again?

so, if i modify a prop to make it work for ME, why can't I get it duplicated in (say) CoCr so that if I wreck it i can easily get another one? I am certainly never goin to use Mark for any props (if I hurt one I have now) and I am happy I have none of his...well actually I will have none VERY SHORTLY as i dont use them.

Do you offer a service like this Jim? Can I send MY prop to you to be duplicated (not that i would) and expect you to duplicate it and not sell it to everyone else?

I also see over on Jims Dock that you are upset that I am selling old stock that a friend of mine had...is this the wrong thing to do? Should I not offload these propellors? Should I just keep them?

I really am sick of this place. Absolute garbage like this thread are very disspointing and I have decided to give this place a WIDE BERTH and not come back. Good luck with your props Jim, but I certainly will not be buying any more, Octura get the job done VERY well for me.

 

[ozbryan]

Unfortunately threads like this turn good people away from not only the forums where they help people but also the sport...

The two clowns should be ashamed of them selves.

Nothing good for the sport coming out of their BS dribble.

 

[drwayne]

Oh dear ..another classic example of Mericans mistaking Australian humour for something sinister ....

the funny thing here is, we're laughing at you .......

I do remember Kris gaining a world record with some Australian technology and one of Aaron's most excellent prop tweaks ..

Now that should scare you Mericans .. your podiums need enlarging to fit us marsupials in full roar.

 

[Tom Foley]

So who is going to re- design the 1667 with some real changes to get it in the proper shape and pitch range for our Twins without bending ?

 

[ABC PROPS]

I Don’t care if this man is stand up or sit down kinda guy

I am Sorry about the way this has turned out

But the facts that I see here

1 Advertised COCR copies of my products online

2 Sold Copies of a COCR copies of my products online

3 AND stated very clear He was going to copy 100 to be precise of one of my products

When called out

Claims it was a joke

Copyright infringement to me is not a joke

yes you can change the item and remake it

but for personal use only

NOT SALE FOR PROFIT

Material change,bending,reshaping,ETC

Does not justify at all

The item Has to able to qualify on its own to be legal

READ COPYRIGHT LAW

Which brings up my question

So far all i have heard was BS

IF YOU CAN MAKE A BETTER PROP

WHY ARE YOU COPYING SOMEBODY ELSES WORK

AND NOT MAKING IT FROM SCRATCH?

Why are the people who copy my props not posting and protecting their work?

 

[wayne middlemiss]

And the Chinese copy lots of things ,and give a rats arse they don't ,

 

[Louise Flynn]

Dear ABC PROP man,

I am so utterly disappointed that you would even have the disrespect to accuse my husband of copying your props!! I can tell you for a fact that he has never copied yours or anyone's props!!!!

People like you are an absolute joke and you have just made yourselves look like fools!!

This could of just been dealt with by simply sending a private message to clear this up with Kris instead of you making Kris look like a cheat, copier ect.. the only person who I hope this has affected is you!! People like you ruin it for everyone else!!!

Thanks for the nice words Bryan

 

[Mark Bullard]

Done got the 1667 ready for a twin. And it will not bend.

 

[Andy Greene]

I Don’t care if this man is stand up or sit down kinda guy

I am Sorry about the way this has turned out

But the facts that I see here

1 Advertised COCR copies of my products online

2 Sold Copies of a COCR copies of my products online

3 AND stated very clear He was going to copy 100 to be precise of one of my products

When called out

Claims it was a joke

Copyright infringement to me is not a joke

yes you can change the item and remake it

but for personal use only

NOT SALE FOR PROFIT

Material change,bending,reshaping,ETC

Does not justify at all

The item Has to able to qualify on its own to be legal

READ COPYRIGHT LAW

Which brings up my question

So far all i have heard was BS

IF YOU CAN MAKE A BETTER PROP

WHY ARE YOU COPYING SOMEBODY ELSES WORK

AND NOT MAKING IT FROM SCRATCH?

Why are the people who copy my props not posting and protecting their work?

So I guess I gotta ask -

Are you still not selling the end raw product ??

Or is the concern someone has ordered your prop , then duplicated it - from the same raw end product you provided and sold it under another name or exact dimensions you created ?

I gotta say, I have sent Mark a prop and asked for 2 exact duplicates and yeah- they where close- but not exact. That said, if someone is duplicating what you claim to be proprietary, how is that if no two are exact then ?????

This could and should have been handled elsewhere IMHO - and frankly me of all people reported it to the mods to be removed, go figure.

This entire situation will cause ill will , discontent and prop mfg threating to pull out - FOR WHAT ?????

MISCOMMUNICATION .

 

[JimZaremski]

Oh dear ..another classic example of Mericans mistaking Australian humour for something sinister ....

the funny thing here is, we're laughing at you .......

I do remember Kris gaining a world record with some Australian technology and one of Aaron's most excellent prop tweaks ..

Now that should scare you Mericans .. your podiums need enlarging to fit us marsupials in full roar.

Yes, we're all stupid because we're American. Here's a tip, if a whole lot of people are interpreting your "humor" as something "sinister," maybe you should stop and consider that what you said wasn't funny.

 

[Brad Christy]

Kris,

I don't really have a dog in this fight, either, but I can tell you this: If someone develops a "BBQ sauce" that starts with Heinz Ketchup, even if reverse engineered and remixed from scratch, take it to market and Heinz finds out about it, that certain someone will have the biggest, meanest lawyers they've ever seen knocking on their door in a matter of a couple days.

So, yes, that means taking one of Mr. Schaffers' props, tweaking it to your liking, then reverse engineering it to be taken to market, that is a direct violation of "intellectual rights" laws.

Also, one cannot make threats of action, then when called out on it, claim it was just a joke and expect every one to just shake on it and laugh it off, even with a supposed language barrier.

I have known Jim for a long time. I've been to his shop several times. I've seen how much time and effort he puts into his products. If someone makes a public statement to undermine those efforts, Jim has every right to make a public statement to defend those efforts. Just because you're embarrassed to have been called out on a statement you shouldn't have made, doesn't mean Jim handled the situation incorrectly.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[Brad Christy]

Guys,

And for what it's worth: YES, Jim will develop a prop JUST FOR YOU. You can either buy the mold or the first 50 props out of it (IIRC), and you have your very own, proprietary prop. There are many of them out there. Just ask him.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine And Precision LLC

 

[ian thompson]

from what i have read in this thread Id say that unless you could prove the you were the first person to make a propellor for an outboard ..You are all copying / improving..call it what you will..

all props are a development of the 1st one made..

this is called progress..

Change the blade shape ?? its still got a hub & 2 or 3 maybe 4 blades..its still an outboard propellor it may not look like the original but it still does the same thing..

If you are making props & dont want people to get your design. The answer is simple DONT SELL THEM TO OTHERS

If you dont want your props to improve dont listen to any feedback from users & above all dont let a 3rd party modify them..

Because if you listen to a user & change your props to their ideas then sell them to others.. you are copying the users ideas..of course no one has ever done this..

This is a silly situation hope it resolves itself soon

Ian

 

[KenOlvis]

...

 

[Joe Warren]

Prop Tweaking, Polishing and Bending is best left to the Experts. I have 100s of Andy Brows Octura & ABC Props. I did pay him for his labor to make a Good Product Better... & they are better than when they left Octura.......... it was My Choice & my Money... & I consider his prop Work to be the Best Money can buy....Again Personal Preference.......I have also given a Special Cut F Mono prop to a known Paticular prop tweaker & He copied it a 100`s times for Profit & i can tell you he Never Appreciated it........ So people Will Do What they Do for Profit.......... I think for ABC Jim its what he does for a living. Understood..... & its what others do for a Hobby!!!!!! Keep up the Good Work Jim.... They Win a Lot of Races on Different Boats........ Keep you eyes on the Winners Circle Not the Distraction......

 

[Brad Christy]

Ian, Ken,

So are you saying Harley Davidson shouldn't be able to hold the patents on their engine design? It's just a collection shafts, rods and pistons, just like the one before it. Nope. It doesn't work like that. If It did, nothing would ever evolve. Nobody would ever invest anything into making things better than they already are because somebody else would just come along and take what you've done, tweak it and call it theirs.

Jim started over with his prop design. He dug into what makes a prop do what it does and why it does it that way. He came up with something radically different than what we'd seen previous. He deserves the credit and reward for his work. Period.

Thanks. Brad.

Titan Racing Components

BlackJack Hydros

Model Machine and Precision LLC

 

[ozbryan]

So Jim other than the fact that you have accused kris of copying your stuff when he physically hasnt... havent you in fact done worse because you have done that?

You didnt invent the propellor... according to Wikipedia Josef Ressel did in 1827.

So you have copied his work and made it better... havent you?