Buckeye 880 & Thunder in the Valley races

[Don Ferrette]

"I know that The North Coast club had very poor attendance at their nitro races last year. I can find no fault with their class decisions."

What do you expect from a club that boasts being all gas & does not allow nitro at the club pond. I heard about their "nitro offerings" last year & also heard that it was a joke at best. Now granted I was not there but this is what I heard. Sorry TJ but I totally disagree with you saying "Its a perfect split and I appreciate all of the work that these guys have done in trying to grow the hobby in Ohio". I guess you do agree with it since you happen to run the same nitro classes they are offering and are not on the sh!tty end of that stick. Turning away someone because he runs a nitro hydro is not growing the hobby, it's wrong period! I spent years going out of my way to accomodiate anybody who was a boater no matter what was in the fuel tank but now I see how it is. What ever happened to we are all boaters & in this together? Keep thinking along current lines & it will lead to a dark day for all. h34r:

 

[Ken Dutlinger]

The way i see it they should atleast offer the classes and if three boats dont show up then they dont run .On both flyers is says 3 boats to make a class.

Ken

 

[Tony Jacuzzi]

"I know that The North Coast club had very poor attendance at their nitro races last year. I can find no fault with their class decisions."

What do you expect from a club that boasts being all gas & does not allow nitro at the club pond. I heard about their "nitro offerings" last year & also heard that it was a joke at best. Now granted I was not there but this is what I heard. Sorry TJ but I totally disagree with you saying "Its a perfect split and I appreciate all of the work that these guys have done in trying to grow the hobby in Ohio". I guess you do agree with it since you happen to run the same nitro classes they are offering and are not on the sh!tty end of that stick. Turning away someone because he runs a nitro hydro is not growing the hobby, it's wrong period! I spent years going out of my way to accomodiate anybody who was a boater no matter what was in the fuel tank but now I see how it is. What ever happened to we are all boaters & in this together? Keep thinking along current lines & it will lead to a dark day for all. h34r:

DON et all:

Who is getting turned away? I wont argue this anymore its ridiculous. I have been to many "nitro races" that offer only a couple of gas classses Open Gas Mono etc., The gas guys have been putting up with this type of thing for a long time I can only suggest that if you and the others dont like the classes being offered dont attend the race, chose one more to your liking. I really dont see why someone outside the District has an interest in whats happening in another District, and is suggesting that somehow an all gas club is a bad thing? D2 is the largest district with the greatest growth since the last real registration nyumbers were available . The District has grown about 25% since 2000 so we must be doing something right. I defend the right of each club in D2 to offer what they want, and to register as any type of club FE Gas Nitro Steam or any combination . This is the kind of stupid arguing that hurts model boating, not an all gas or all all FE or all anything. This is fostering a nitro vs gas argument much more than what those clubs are doing

PS We do run all the mono classes, I am building a Sport40 and a scale and have a B hydro, Bryan also ran a 40 Crapshooter for a couple of years. The classes we run have nothing to do with anything

 

[Don Ferrette]

"I know that The North Coast club had very poor attendance at their nitro races last year. I can find no fault with their class decisions."

What do you expect from a club that boasts being all gas & does not allow nitro at the club pond. I heard about their "nitro offerings" last year & also heard that it was a joke at best. Now granted I was not there but this is what I heard. Sorry TJ but I totally disagree with you saying "Its a perfect split and I appreciate all of the work that these guys have done in trying to grow the hobby in Ohio". I guess you do agree with it since you happen to run the same nitro classes they are offering and are not on the sh!tty end of that stick. Turning away someone because he runs a nitro hydro is not growing the hobby, it's wrong period! I spent years going out of my way to accomodiate anybody who was a boater no matter what was in the fuel tank but now I see how it is. What ever happened to we are all boaters & in this together? Keep thinking along current lines & it will lead to a dark day for all. h34r:

DON et all:

Who is getting turned away? I wont argue this anymore its ridiculous. I have been to many "nitro races" that offer only a couple of gas classses Open Gas Mono etc., The gas guys have been putting up with this type of thing for a long time I can only suggest that if you and the others dont like the classes being offered dont attend the race, chose one more to your liking. I really dont see why someone outside the District has an interest in whats happening in another District, and is suggesting that somehow an all gas club is a bad thing? D2 is the largest district with the greatest growth since the last real registration nyumbers were available . The District has grown about 25% since 2000 so we must be doing something right. I defend the right of each club in D2 to offer what they want, and to register as any type of club FE Gas Nitro Steam or any combination . This is the kind of stupid arguing that hurts model boating, not an all gas or all all FE or all anything. This is fostering a nitro vs gas argument much more than what those clubs are doing

PS We do run all the mono classes, I am building a Sport40 and a scale and have a B hydro, Bryan also ran a 40 Crapshooter for a couple of years. The classes we run have nothing to do with anything

Who's getting turned away? Did you not read Joe Knesek's post back on page one?

If you're ok with any club turning away another fellow boater because there is something different in his fuel tank then yes going any further with this is a waste of time, I would like to think you think otherwise.

I have said it before & I will say it again, I have ALWAYS supported ANY boater in good standing regardless of what kind of boat they showed up with or what was in the fuel tank. It has become apparent others do not think this way.

 

[Ken Dutlinger]

I didnt mean for this to start a big argument .I also run a Gas Sprot hydro ,Gas Mono , Gas Rigger ,scale and soon a Sport 40 .I was just asking why they are not offering the Nitro hydro classes .They ran the hydros at "thunder in the Vally" last year .

Ken

 

[Ron Olson]

At least they have classes for boats in the D-2 points series. Unfortunatley up here some classes have faded away and others are making big comebacks with thanks to people like Tony.

I wouldn't get too mad as clubs can specify wha classes they want to have. D-14 has the Ultimate 21. We have the IMPBA Gas Nat's and the Internat's. If we were to have a true Internat's, it should include all legal IMPBA classes, including gas, electric and steam as ridiculous as it may sound.

If classes don't draw in an area, why try to fill the class?

How many of you remember when a lot of clubs wouldn't let a gas boat near their race with a 10 foot pole? I do and it wasn't that long ago.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

http://p086.ezboard.com/fjimsrcboatdockjim...cID=21831.topic <_<

The ACLazer's post is not truthful. I moved to Cleveland in 1999 and ran on this pond which is 20 minutes from my home for 2 years until Ron Van Wagnon stopped running boats. Once he stopped running, the club moved to GAS boats and in 2003, I was told that I would not be allowed to run my Nitro boats at the pond any longer. Since then I have traveled as far as Virginia to practice before races. Last season Rick from the Seville club invited me to run at their pond which is over an hour away.

Tony, the club may offer nitro classes at their races but I assure you they do not welcome nitro boats during practice weekends. I realize I am the token Nitro racer in the area but I am also the most active racer in the Cleveland area and the only one that attends races throughout the district. I'm just one person and have no interest in practicing at a pond that I'm not welcomed.

For the record, I have not supported this club's races after being turned away, I see no reason to support their races. I did contact them regarding the Rookie of the Year series last year but they had an issue with the series rules that had been implemented earlier in the season. They do list a Novice class for the two '06 races but neither will be included in the ROY series unless the club accepts the series rules.

 

[Mark Bullard]

Well this is the answer I was looking for. Its called segregation. This was posted on JRCBD by Dom of the club in question to Don Ferrette. Now I guess the pond owner can do what he wants its his pond. But I just do not understand what the differance is. A boat is a boat.

Mark

Re: No Nitro RIGGERS

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don

The owner of the NCPH Club Pond has chose to run Gas Boats only there. It's his Pond on his own personal property and actually a Huge Pond that he has in his back yard. We have run Nitro Boats there on many occasions but it is a Gas only Club, always has been since I joined back in 1999 and even long before that. I have nothing against Glo Boats, never have, ask anyone. I'm not going to blow up your skirt and give you a bunch of BS but I really don't know why, sorry.

 

[Terry Flynn]

Then I have a question regarding the owner of the pond can do what he want's. but isn't the pond insured by the IMPBA and if so any one in good standing should be able to run there regardless of what type of boat they have. And if this pond isn't opended to any IMPBA member then why is the IMPBA insuring something that is privet?

 

[piper_chuck]

The ACLazer's post is not truthful....

Finally, the dirty details start coming out.

Tony, the club may offer nitro classes at their races but I assure you they do not welcome nitro boats during practice weekends. I realize I am the token Nitro racer in the area...

One has to wonder if you're the "token nitro racer" because of a lack of interest, or if perhaps it's due to behind the scenes work to get rid of nitro? When faced with no convenient site to run at, people will either give up, and quit racing, or give in, and convert to gas. One might ask why would a club want to do something that would harm boating? Perhaps because eliminating the classes the people in power aren't interested in means THEY get more time to run their own classes? Nah, it's impossible to think anyone would be that self-centered.

I sure am glad the people in this area have an open mind and will support ANY and ALL classes that people are interested in running!

 

[piper_chuck]

DON et all:

Who is getting turned away? I wont argue this anymore its ridiculous. I have been to many "nitro races" that offer only a couple of gas classses Open Gas Mono etc., The gas guys have been putting up with this type of thing for a long time I can only suggest that if you and the others dont like the classes being offered dont attend the race, chose one more to your liking. I really dont see why someone outside the District has an interest in whats happening in another District, and is suggesting that somehow an all gas club is a bad thing? D2 is the largest district with the greatest growth since the last real registration nyumbers were available . The District has grown about 25% since 2000 so we must be doing something right. I defend the right of each club in D2 to offer what they want, and to register as any type of club FE Gas Nitro Steam or any combination . This is the kind of stupid arguing that hurts model boating, not an all gas or all all FE or all anything. This is fostering a nitro vs gas argument much more than what those clubs are doing

Tony, what is so sacred about a district boundary that prevents people from one district discussing something that happens in another district? From what I know, lots of people attend cross district races. Heck, I attended a cross district race last weekend! And why do you feel discussing perceived segregation is "fostering a nitro vs gas argument"? Discussion is healthy, leads to improved communication, and quite often to resolving problems. I always wonder what's being hidden when people try to stifle such discussions. People who race nitro hydros are trying to understand why their classes don't show up in some races, or for that matter, the district high points series. Is it truely a lack of interest, or some other reason?

 

[Tony Jacuzzi]

http://p086.ezboard.com/fjimsrcboatdockjim...cID=21831.topic <_<

The ACLazer's post is not truthful. I moved to Cleveland in 1999 and ran on this pond which is 20 minutes from my home for 2 years until Ron Van Wagnon stopped running boats. Once he stopped running, the club moved to GAS boats and in 2003, I was told that I would not be allowed to run my Nitro boats at the pond any longer. Since then I have traveled as far as Virginia to practice before races. Last season Rick from the Seville club invited me to run at their pond which is over an hour away.

Tony, the club may offer nitro classes at their races but I assure you they do not welcome nitro boats during practice weekends. I realize I am the token Nitro racer in the area but I am also the most active racer in the Cleveland area and the only one that attends races throughout the district. I'm just one person and have no interest in practicing at a pond that I'm not welcomed.

For the record, I have not supported this club's races after being turned away, I see no reason to support their races. I did contact them regarding the Rookie of the Year series last year but they had an issue with the series rules that had been implemented earlier in the season. They do list a Novice class for the two '06 races but neither will be included in the ROY series unless the club accepts the series rules.

To all:

My last post for sure on this topic:

You are mixing and matching three separate clubs and three different sites here:

I am pretty sure that my good friend and race partner Joe Knesek is talking about the Cleveland MBC when he says there was an issue in 2003. Since then they have all new leadership and I believe an all new attitude. If Joe contacts them and he gets turned away again I stand corrected but I don’t believe that will happen now.

The North Coast Pondhoppers are located about 80 miles from the Pennsylvania border run on a private lake They are registered as a GAS only club in the IMPBA and state that on their club registration, they have always been a GAS only club. They are offering (2) nitro classes at their race 1/8 scale and Sport40 even though last year they only had I believe 3 scale boats show up. They also offered the nitro mono classes and had few entrants and burned for all of the trophies

The Seville (Performance MBC) is located in Seville Ohio, and openly welcomes nitro racers and is where Joe Knesek and family is practicing. This is the club that hosts Thunder in the Valley, and selected what classes they run.

D2- has 16 races that include some that offer only 2 gas classes, and 12 nitro (Mini Gold Cup), some that offer only (5) classes total GM Hydrofest Novice-Scale-Sport40-LS27Mono-LS27 SportHydro, some that are Gas only - Lansing MBC etc., and some that offer almost every class in gas and nitro The choice of races to attend is easy.

Piper Chuck:

Discussion is fine, but if the constituents of D2 are satisfied with the races, clubs etc here why would others want to stir it up. I do not look at District 12's or any other Districts races or clubs and then critique them, I personally don’t care what they are doing as long as they are not impacting D2, the IMPBA or Tony Jacuzzi. This constant harping and sniping IS destructive and divisive in my opinion, It is a direct slam at the clubs named in the posts and then like all of the other similar hot topic posts degenerates into name calling and bitching. (generally by the same people) I am the District-2 director and I am satisfied with the schedule and the clubs etc. I have received no complaints (email, snail mail, phone) from anyone in the District about the race schedule, or classes etc. I know Ken D is a member of D2 and his initial question on Jims was the first time the topic has arisen. My term as D2 director expires at the end of the season I invite and welcome people to step up, and do the job the ay that they want to see the District run.

Tony J

 

[TomMoorehouse]

it's unfortuante to see a club turn away any boater.

But let me tell ya this goes both ways I tried to get 2 classes to run in my club this year and both got shot down. I wanted .12-.18 rigger and gas rigger classes. Now it seems in my area we have a culture that says gas boaters are bad / loose ponds/ dont drive responsibly/ don't make nice ovals around the pond..... we don't want them at our races. I've tried more than once to get a gas rigger class. but heck if I succeed honestly I don't think we could get 3-4 gas boats to show up. and clubs need to pick what classes people will come to the race for. If you don't you will end up with plaques that have no use. and if a property owner says no nitro on my pond... it's his property... no different than saying no fishing on my pond. that does not mean the club can't say lets find a new pond so we can run nitro though.

 

[TonyKilbarger]

I won't comment on all of the above, just want to add one thing. I realize you can't offer all classes at races, especially 1 day races. You have to offer the classes which are popular in the area. What I think clubs should do but many (including those in Ohio where I live) do not is add a couple of catch all classes like open mono, and open hydro. One reason why few people come when say the buckeye 880 offers just sport forty and scale is that if you only run nitro as I mainly do, is it really worth a trip to run 1 boat 3 times and then watch all of the other classes. Most scale and sport 40 boaters run other boats also and if the clubs would offer a catch all class, at least they "could" run in that. I have tried to get at least one race in Ohio to offer open hydro so I can run my F Hydro. That way is someone wants to run an XLS hydro or even an electric hydro they could. One year I ran open mono in Dayton with a 100 seaducer and ended up second to a 40 mono. ( Thanks young Mr. Maston). It made for some exciting racing watching the smaller 40 scream along and my Diesel truck chasing along.

OK, off the soap box. Warm weather is coming, I need to get busy!

 

[Don Ferrette]

...................... This constant harping and sniping IS destructive and divisive in my opinion, It is a direct slam at the clubs named in the posts and then like all of the other similar hot topic posts degenerates into name calling and bitching. (generally by the same people) ...................

Funny I seen no "name calling" "harping" "sniping" or "bitching" as you call it but rather a deep concern as to why a boater is getting turned away from running at an IMPBA insured pond & what happened all of a sudden to a couple races that were deep in nitro hydros? I'm sorry TJ but I look at the big picture, including trends developing throughout the organization that I may find to be good or bad. I have a couple friends who've always spoke highly of the Buckeye 880 race & how one day I should go there. Well it appears there is no longer a reason to even consider that since I run mostly nitro riggers. It's extremely hard to believe that just like that you can't get enough nitro hydros to make classes at these 2 races? Was this a "trend" developing?? Anyone got the entry lists from the last couple years for the Buckeye & Thunder in the Valley?

The current offerings don't bother you because you run nitro monos, sport 40 & scale so you are not affected. There is no way you can convince me or anyone else that this would not bother you if you had a wall full of riggers. Of course it would, that is only natural.

I've always believed in supporting all boaters as I have said repeatedly. This year in D12 we have expanded our district points offerings to 16 classes due to good growth in the gas classes. Gas sport hydro is really catching on so we now added that class to the district points series as well as a seperate gas cat class to the already long present gas mono & gas hydro. There are currently not enough gas riggers to warrant a seperate rigger class so they run in gas hydro & it will probably stay that way for now. I want a place for all to play & play together as like Mark said a boat is a boat and we are all boaters.

 

[piper_chuck]

I won't comment on all of the above, just want to add one thing. I realize you can't offer all classes at races, especially 1 day races. You have to offer the classes which are popular in the area. What I think clubs should do but many (including those in Ohio where I live) do not is add a couple of catch all classes like open mono, and open hydro. One reason why few people come when say the buckeye 880 offers just sport forty and scale is that if you only run nitro as I mainly do, is it really worth a trip to run 1 boat 3 times and then watch all of the other classes. Most scale and sport 40 boaters run other boats also and if the clubs would offer a catch all class, at least they "could" run in that. I have tried to get at least one race in Ohio to offer open hydro so I can run my F Hydro. ..

I wonder how many others are in your position? I wonder how many just gave up because they felt nobody cared? Tony Jacuzzi said he's received no complaints, concerns, etc about the classes being offered in the district. Perhaps it's time for you and your fellow nitro hydro racers to make your concerns known. In fact, why don't you invite them to join in this discussion?

 

[Blaise Recca]

Our first boat was a RTR Dumas gas mono. When we showed up at a district races we would wait all day to run a heat, if they even had a gas class, then we would have to run in an open class with all types of modded motors. That made it hard for a new boater first starting out. As time went on we followed the crowd and got a bunch of nitro boats, at some races running 4 nitro classes each.

When we moved up from Florida to NC we found there was mostly gas boat racing in the NC area. I sold all the nitro stuff on Ebay and got a few more gas boats. Hey, before the gas nats started IMPBA did not even have a national race for gas boats. Boy how things have changed.

Bottom line....We're still racing , that's all that matters anyway.....having some fun. The way I see it, nitro is on the way out. With all the problems and high cost of nitro motors (Picco stole my money with no parts to repair my engines), and the cost of fuel, well, even at $3 a gallon, gas is cheaper then glow fuel by far!

How many twin hydros in the world are there anyway,......its a dying breed. Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

[Scott Norris]

Our first boat was a RTR Dumas gas mono. When we showed up at a district races we would wait all day to run a heat, if they even had a gas class, then we would have to run in an open class with all types of modded motors. That made it hard for a new boater first starting out. As time went on we followed the crowd and got a bunch of nitro boats, at some races running 4 nitro classes each.

When we moved up from Florida to NC we found there was mostly gas boat racing in the NC area. I sold all the nitro stuff on Ebay and got a few more gas boats. Hey, before the gas nats started IMPBA did not even have a national race for gas boats. Boy how things have changed.

Bottom line....We're still racing , that's all that matters anyway.....having some fun. The way I see it, nitro is on the way out. With all the problems and high cost of nitro motors (Picco stole my money with no parts to repair my engines), and the cost of fuel, well, even at $3 a gallon, gas is cheaper then glow fuel by far!

How many twin hydros in the world are there anyway,......its a dying breed. Wake up and smell the coffee!

I should have insisted that the Greensboro club make an Open Mono Class instead of an Open LSG Mono Class just so I could Lap your Hiney Twice Blaise. I hope you show up and enter Offshore this Sunday so I can show you exactly WHY Nitro isn't a Dying Breed. When Chuck Gardiner and Myself showed up in Greensboro there was practicaly no active Nitro Classes. This year there are 5 dedicated Nitro Classes in the Club Series. Knock off the Brain Wash Techniques Blaise. That Coffee smells really Stale to me.

 

[Brian Blazer]

I think some of it boils down to clubs not wanting to shell out the money for trophies when there is a chance the class won't get filled. I would much rather go to a race where the entry fee is $5.00 to $10.00 no matter how many boats you have. This money will go to porta potties and to help the club out. Recognition for a job well done is all that is needed at an event...still have the presentation, but just give the winners a piece of paper that says "You DA MAN!", "You DA Second MAN!" and "You DA Third MAN!" I have too many worthless trophies collecting dust. In my opinion it is all about getting together with your friends and having fun. I would rather save the large entry fee and take the wife out to dinner.

I wonder if Cincinnati has a $5.00 event next year how many people would come.

Just a thought.

Brian

 

[Mike Byer]

Scott the way I understand it, it is open mono, not just a gas class.

Mike B