Future of SAW Time Trials

Intlwaters

Help Support Intlwaters:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Mark,

Great post on the fresh/ salt water thing. The other thing about newsites is are they suitable to run on all day or just for an hour or so??

All sites have some kind of bad weather now & again, but you can not put on an event for only an hour or so.

Don :)
 
Here is something to think about when you start looking for more places to set records. ALL boats run faster on salt water. So, if you were to set up a course on salt water would you argue an advantage over a freshwater site?
Hey now that's thinkin' outside the box. Who's gonna bring the 20 ton dump truck full of salt to the next SAW? :lol:

Seriously though, good post Mark. :)
 
On a not so serious note, just figure out how to sprinkle salt out of the bottom of your boat while it is running! :lol: Wait.....that might work....................
 
Guys,

This is not about who can or cant do what.I meant this to be about trying to ferther the SAW side of our hobby. All I am saying is that if a change of some kind is not considered then very soon our current sites will be unsafe to run at higher speeds.

Don :(
 
Well gee Chris I sure don't see how you think this is some kind of "attack". What Don suggests will make it easier, it's right there in print, just read it. A little defensive are we perhaps? :rolleyes:

And as far as running at the speeds you guys claim that's fine, but you still couldn't back it up, that's part of the whole picture so no record. But by all means keep trying, I hope you all get it there one day. I watched Kentley Porter push his 21 hydro well over 100 for 2 straight seasons well before anyone else out there was even close. Unfortunately mother nature was not on his side at both events to let him back it up. Oh well so it goes, he certainly didn't pout about it, as he said it was the hand he was dealt. He's a proud pappa right now so who knows when we'll see him bring that boat out again. :ph34r:

You all can word it however you like but you're still trying to make it easier. And as for room, if you're running out of it you need a bigger SAW site. B)
I was actually hoping that somebody would have picked up on the "Monday's" movie quote. I guess the joke's on me!

In my heart of hearts Don I believe that it was not an attack and I personally have no problem with you (maybe with your assertions that in some cases had no basis in fact but not you) as I only call it as I read it (the post was not mine) or find a need to be defensive (the original post was not mine), but let me suggest that proper etiquette in written communication is a very difficult to achieve and cannot be reached all the times. The choice of words, phrases, quotes, images, multiple exclamation points in a row, multiple question marks in a row, TYPING IN ALL CAPS, and other seemingly innocent things can more often than not be misinterpreted. That's why more things get done in a shorter period of time with less mistakes when verbal communication is the choice so that being said I would be willing to host a group of people at my place for drinks, snacks, bench racing, and future of SAW discussions!

Don, I may have misread the intent of your statement that "If this is 'so common' as you say then why does the 5 year old 67 SAW record @ 115 still stand? Or are these supposed speeds brief fleeting moments on radar that can't be maintained for 330 feet?", but given the additional statement that "as far as running at the speeds you guys claim that's fine, but you still couldn't back it up, that's part of the whole picture so no record. But by all means keep trying, I hope you all get it there one day." They have already been there and will continue to be there and they have already backed it up and can continue to back it up. Okay, I know Maher can set up his .67 hydro and run back and forth between 105 and 110 all day long and he and others have made passes barely on the pipe and gurgling fat at 100. What good is that? What he and guys like O'Donnell, the Grim's, and others like them do is try to make larger gains. 10 to 15% increases over their current speeds are the types of goals I've seen them set and I see them continue to tweak and tweak until the boat will finally make a pass well on the pipe and tweak and tweak until it will go both ways.

"You all can word it however you like but you're still trying to make it easier." Well, it's a proven fact that Don and the guys who run on Legg Lake don't need to make it easier. Let me say again that Don, Mark, Chris, Jimmy, many of the experienced SAW participants at Legg will be the first to step up and help get a driver lined up for passes so it's already becoming easier (we will do the same for you when you go there Don because it is an unfamiliar lake for you and we want you to have a good time)! "And as for room, if you're running out of it you need a bigger SAW site." I know you can do better than that! I do hope for all of us that we are blessed with boats that over time become fast enough that we start running out of slow down area.

Again, any rules changes no matter what they are will not be resolved on the discussion board so whatever people may have on their minds is encouraged to make it in a post.

My apologies to the casual reader of these posts as they have become largely off topic, but hopefully this has been entertaining and perhaps a little informative as well. That being said, if it doesn't have to do with specific suggestions regarding Mr. Maher's discussion topic you've heard the last from me on the topic before the censors get to me! And the crowd goes wild! :lol: :lol:

Out and off to the garage!
 
I here ya Chris & you're right, just 'cause we type it one way doesn't mean it's read the same way on the other end. But I am curious though, if you guys are comfortably running above the 67 record why not just bust the record & up it officially?? Just a question, no underlying hidden meaning or message.............. :D
 
Just to add to Marks view: I was at the Drag in Agusta last year. And I could not belive that the water was Glass enough for them at 3:00 in the afternoon!! It was Hot as ^%$# but

reflection calm. There may be something to that.

Also, Saltwater for starit pass would PUSH the numbers way up. Saltwater passes at sea level would be the BOMB!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I here ya Chris & you're right, just 'cause we type it one way doesn't mean it's read the same way on the other end. But I am curious though, if you guys are comfortably running above the 67 record why not just bust the record & up it officially?? Just a question, no underlying hidden meaning or message.............. :D
Okay, you caught me on the way out. That's really a Don/Mark/Chris question, but I can say that they put on the SAW, run their boats, and maybe set a record. More often than not (and I'm sure you have personal experience with this), they know "there's more there" and more often than not that "there" is 10 to 15% above there they ran. That being said, that's what they work toward. They bend on the prop, work with the pipe, go mad science with the fuel, and reach for the stars instead of the clouds. Now, if somebody went 1-2% above their record would they back it down and try getting it back? Would you?

When Jimmy and I went 75 with the .45 Mod tunnel several of us knew there was 80 in there. We didn't try for 77 or 78. We tried for 80. In the process we went 77 two way average and went 80 one way and that prop became a limp leaf. Now we're trying to get it back. It may take six months or a year since we only run typically no more than three times a year and don't have an opportunity to practice much either.

Some of us like to make things difficult!
 
Eric, sorry I missed your post.

The idea of a shorter time trap is to gain distance on both runup & shutdown. If the courase is 30ft.,130ft. or330ft. it MUST be surveyed & certified. Yes it could be that it is easier to drive thru a shorter courase, but like the cream that comes to the top, skill & experience will too.

The wife sayes its time to go out for dinner & margaritas.

Don :)
 
Guys,

This is not about who can or cant do what.I meant this to be about trying to ferther the SAW side of our hobby. All I am saying is that if a change of some kind is not considered then very soon our current sites will be unsafe to run at higher speeds.

Don :(
Don,

You know that many sites are unsafe with boats running at heat racing speed.

If a 120 mph boat loses radio while going through a short trap, how is that safer than the boat losing radio while making a 330' pass?

If a boat won't slow down and turn around witnin the confines of the lake, then it's time to build one that will. That's part of the challenge. We can eliminate that, but don't worry there will be many more challeges that will continue to keep all but the few with the thickest skin particapating.

Take for instance the Special "SAW only" engine that I am working on. Only a few will be built and they will sell for $6,500 a copy. Just think how many peolpe that will elimiatet from participating!

We might want to make a rule against that, but while we're at it we should make a rule against Jimmy Allan's $200,000 hand made barstock engines and pipes. LOL

I see no evidence that a short trap will improve attendance.

Years ago when C/L Speed began to lose attendance they tried to fix it by limiting nitro, eliminating tuned pipes, along with a few other things to make it "easier". C/LSpeed is smaller than ever and at the event I attended a few weeks ago 90% of the contestants had White hair or No hair.
 
COUGH!,COUGH!,COUGH

Sorry bout that Andy, just had to get thru that smoke screen you blew up about the 120mph boat w/radio problem. A 20mph or a 120mph boat w/radio problem is going to crash, long or short, the time trap has nothing to do with it.

Turning in the confines of the lake is what this is all about & unless you or anybody else can turn a SAW rigger with no turn fin at say 110mph we will soon be out of room.

Oh, that 6,500$ motor, hope you have lots of boats to put it in, cause I know it will go at least 250mph & crash every time because you cant slow down to turn it.

You could be right on the white hair thing, it most likley will be you, me & anybody else with thick skin.

Don :p
 
why would the notion of changing the rules be more acceptable than finding a venue more suited to the speeds and problems you speak of?

what % of boaters attending SAWS nationwide are running at over 100 mph?

are SAWS just about the 100 mph plus riggers?

just questions from an admitted newbie running electric monos and sport hydros...

Ron
 
Andy....big ? you have been real fast at legg lake,were you able to slow down ok, and how fast do you think you could go at legg lake and slow down ok?...mostly im asking about from the right to the left....what do you think?
 
Capt Ron,

Maybe Iam being selfish when I speak of changing the format rather than the venue. sad to say we do not have another body of water suited for the speeds that will be atained in the future,any where neer by that I know of.

Good question on % of boaters over 100mph. I dont have a clue nationwide, but here on our lake we have about 20-30% that run 100+ at everySAW.

And NO it is not just about 100mph riggers. Its just without them its like a Nationals without Twins. They are the crowd favorite.

Don :)
 
I've only seen pix and vids of some of the other sites where SAW events have been held. Legg Lake is way too small to really get up to speed on, at least where they hold the event at and Team JAG's or any other people trying for a record would be a lot faster if they did run somewhere else to get more speed up before going through the traps. Huntsville has a ski jump ramp in the turn 1 area that drivers have to miss otherwise they get serious air but look at how many records are set there. The Thread Lake site up here in Flint, MI should be used more than it is as there is plenty of room to get up to speed and to shut down, sits low so it is pretty well protected from westerly winds. Maybe it is time to find another site in California for record trials.

On the 2-way pass, keep in mind that all record runs on the Bonneville Salt Flats are also 2-way passes that have to be done in a certain amount of turn-around time.

The NHRA went to recording trap speeds to 66 feet before and to the finish line for safety reasons but still use the whole 1/4 mile for racing. They used to record speeds from 66 feet before and after the finish line.

Toss the records out every year? It ain't gonna happen.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hey Ron,

Calif. has been pretty well look over for suitable race sites most are too small or too expensive.

Legg Lake traps are not centered in the lake. There is more room on the right side than on the left, so most fast passes are from right to left. But the faster boats can bearly slow down to make the turnaround. There in lies the problem.

As far as I know R C boats are the only craft required to make back to back passes with no interruption or intervention of any kind. I think the land speed attemps are given 1 hr. in between runs for refueling & retuning.

Don

Thats all for tonight Thanks. :D
 
As a fellow racer here in california, we here about all the fun the southern california boys have doing straight away events.

Why do they do straight away <_< because they have the traps, enough interest within the general area to make events worth while ... and a lake to do it in.

I think the SAW thing for the So cal boys would die down or die completely if they could not use legg lake.

We have a pond up here in district 9 that would be a killer for SAW venues .... but would those who persue SAW come 450 miles north to use it, :( not likely.

Don, I hear what your saying in getting trap distance shorter so runup distance is longer as well as shut down/turn around.

Unfortunately ... :( sounds like you need a longer lake.

Scott
 
OK AFTER THIS ITS NAP TIME!

Scott glad you jumped in.

You are sooooooo right on SAW dying without legg lake here in so cal.

You know when that speed bug bites its venom last a lifetime. If you have a killer site, build it and we will come. Hell, we will even help build it if we can go fast on it. :p

Serious, if you can put it on we will be there!!

Don :)
 
Need more space? Anyone remember Silver Springs State Park in Yorkville, Illinois? Gary Pruesse would run his 40 hawk so far down in the right corner till you couldnt see the wake anymore, turn it around, and do 95MPH for a good 700 feet. I miss that pond like my high school girlfriend. Fox Valley Model Boaters was the club, the last few years we(Minute Breakers) helped out then FVMB perminantly dispand. In the mid 90's there was nobody faster than Gary, and he did it all with his 20 and 40 hydros. What was more amazing was with the exception of his front sponson change, those 90mph 20&40 boats and engines were the same ones he'd race every weekend. How many people can say that nowadays?

Anyways Yorkville Illinois is best SAW site Ive ever seen. With me on this Keeley? I know you were the the last few years, anyone else?

Larry
 
Back
Top