weight of a 21 rigger
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Tofastformellow
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mines 2.2 kg but its considered by some to be a lard ass.. 
Jason
Jason
John Knight
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In most circles, anything under 4 lbs is considered to be good for a heat racing boat. I am on my 5th 21 rigger and have it at 3 lbs 10 oz without fuel. But a lighter boat comes with a cost of being more unstable in rougher water and more choppy conditions with a lot of boats running. It is rare we get smooth water and running nearly by ourselves that we can get the maximum out of an extremely light boat. Key in on the 4 lb weight goal.
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4lbs is good for a heat racing boat. it can be a bit light in rough conditions.
gil sonsino
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Try to have a predictable boat no matter the suggested weight. I Have seen lot of fast "light" boats DNF heats so 4 lbs sounds good for heat competition.Remember that even in good flat water conditions the traffic can be a problem with light boats mainly with small ones.
Gill
Gill
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kenrc said:
The lighter you go,the bigger the foot print has to be.
Ron Jr
ClayGlover
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he's refering to a increasing the sponson spread and afterplane length, while not necessarilly increasing the ride pad or tub width, correct?
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Dale0 said:
Light,tiny boats seem to lose stability in traffic.
John Knight
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Ron Zaker Jr said:
Ron,
Define what you call a bigger footprint. Wider sponson pads; wider sponson spacing; both; longer tub with wider tub; even longer tub with more narrow tub, etc. Your statement is not easily definable (maybe by intent). Just want to undertand what you mean. I believe I know but want to make sure.
Absolutely right about the weight. The lighter it is the more difficult it is to drive due to stability especially in traffic. I have known racers that could drive standard Roadrunners well but could not handle an Extreme at all due to the light weight. Major difference. Like using a SAW boat for heat racing. Lessons were served up for all at the spring nats with the wind, waves and cold. The heavier boats usually were the winners as they stayed on the water. The lighter ones were gone easily.
John
Marty Davis
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John:John Knight said:
I agree with Ron, Jr about the wider front sponson stance. You can add in a few more IMPORTANT items which will help the light boat in rougher race water. If you run a few degrees (2-3) or dihedral and widen the front sponson bottom width, the boat will cushion more in rougher water. You can also narrow the sponson pad some and run a flatter amount of dihedral and it will also be fairly good in race water. If you run a 4 lb boat and another guy runs a 3.5 lb boat, the 3.5 boat will accelerate MUCH faster and if the driver is good, will outrun the heavier boat around the course. I have made the assumption that both boats have good turning characteristics and equal engines and props.
I personally have felt that a race boat of around 3.75 lbs is about the optimum weight.
Consider this: If you have a boat that is 3.5 lbs and is sturdy, you can always add weight to it for different conditions. I have had several that have a 4-6 oz plate that I bolted to the bottom into the wood motor mounts. Makes it REALLY nice when you want to do SAW at the Nats. A quarter pound is a LOT on a top level 20 Hydro in the hands of a very good driver.
The level of driving skill of the driver is MUCH more important than the weight of the boat. It is also super important that the boat be reliable, again more important than the weight of the boat.
If you plan on building a new boat every 2 seasons (or every if you are ambitious), you will automatically keep up with your improving skill level.
This is also kind of like the Horsepower discussion. RELIABILITY in the early stages and increasing attention to ALL detail as you improve over several years.
Interesting discussion, makes me miss 20 hydro a LOT.
Marty Davis
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Mitch Graber
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Absolutely right about the weight. The lighter it is the more difficult it is to drive due to stability especially in traffic. I have known racers that could drive standard Roadrunners well but could not handle an Extreme at all due to the light weight. Major difference. Like using a SAW boat for heat racing. Lessons were served up for all at the spring nats with the wind, waves and cold. The heavier boats usually were the winners as they stayed on the water. The lighter ones were gone easily.
John
John ,the boat I won the Spring Nats with is an Extreme.I think if the boat is balanced and trimmed out correctly the "lightness" of it isn't THAT big of a
factor in rough water.Of course a VERY patience throttle finger helps alot
too.That boat won the Winternats the last 2 years in rough water so that
rules out the "fluke" factor that some people like to bring up.LOL.I just
sold that boat a couple of days ago,going to take a break from racing for awhile,still trying to decide if I should sell the 40 boat and the twin also.Mitch
John
110155[/snapback]
John ,the boat I won the Spring Nats with is an Extreme.I think if the boat is balanced and trimmed out correctly the "lightness" of it isn't THAT big of a
factor in rough water.Of course a VERY patience throttle finger helps alot
too.That boat won the Winternats the last 2 years in rough water so that
rules out the "fluke" factor that some people like to bring up.LOL.I just
sold that boat a couple of days ago,going to take a break from racing for awhile,still trying to decide if I should sell the 40 boat and the twin also.Mitch
John Knight
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- 4,598
John ,the boat I won the Spring Nats with is an Extreme.I think if the boat is balanced and trimmed out correctly the "lightness" of it isn't THAT big of aMitch Graber said:
factor in rough water.Of course a VERY patience throttle finger helps alot
too.That boat won the Winternats the last 2 years in rough water so that
rules out the "fluke" factor that some people like to bring up.LOL.I just
sold that boat a couple of days ago,going to take a break from racing for awhile,still trying to decide if I should sell the 40 boat and the twin also.Mitch
110171[/snapback]
Mitch,
You have let a big secret out of the bag and that is patience. You are a very accomplished racer and the trophies you earned at the spring nats are not a fluke but are the result of being a very good and patient racer. The boat and it's set up has a great deal to do with it but the racer and their skill level, coupled with their patience, is what makes the difference between a good racer and a great racer.
I am sorry to see that you are taking a break for while but I won't have to keep looking for you all of the time either! Don't stay away too long!
John
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- Nov 26, 2002
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- 1,592
Marty said it all! Time to start that new 20 boat Mr DavisMarty Davis said:John:John Knight said:
I agree with Ron, Jr about the wider front sponson stance. You can add in a few more IMPORTANT items which will help the light boat in rougher race water. If you run a few degrees (2-3) or dihedral and widen the front sponson bottom width, the boat will cushion more in rougher water. You can also narrow the sponson pad some and run a flatter amount of dihedral and it will also be fairly good in race water. If you run a 4 lb boat and another guy runs a 3.5 lb boat, the 3.5 boat will accelerate MUCH faster and if the driver is good, will outrun the heavier boat around the course. I have made the assumption that both boats have good turning characteristics and equal engines and props.
I personally have felt that a race boat of around 3.75 lbs is about the optimum weight.
Consider this: If you have a boat that is 3.5 lbs and is sturdy, you can always add weight to it for different conditions. I have had several that have a 4-6 oz plate that I bolted to the bottom into the wood motor mounts. Makes it REALLY nice when you want to do SAW at the Nats. A quarter pound is a LOT on a top level 20 Hydro in the hands of a very good driver.
The level of driving skill of the driver is MUCH more important than the weight of the boat. It is also super important that the boat be reliable, again more important than the weight of the boat.
If you plan on building a new boat every 2 seasons (or every if you are ambitious), you will automatically keep up with your improving skill level.
This is also kind of like the Horsepower discussion. RELIABILITY in the early stages and increasing attention to ALL detail as you improve over several years.
Interesting discussion, makes me miss 20 hydro a LOT.
Marty Davis
110169[/snapback]
Mitch Graber
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Thanks A LOT for the compliments John,it took me quite
a few years to learn enough patience to NOT try to win the
race on the first lap or the first turn.I wiil be back into the
boats again for sure,it is a matter of time.I have gotten in
and out of racing 3 times in the last 10 years.There is always
something that comes along that gets my interest more
than the boats for awhile,but after a year or so I miss the
boats and jump back in.This time it is a new bike with a 300
rear tire and a 117" S&S motor,and my wife loves to ride also,
so we are out on it 4 or 5 times aweek if the weather permits.
I will still be lurking around the boat forums of course,can't
get it completely out of the system.LOL. TTYL. Mitch
a few years to learn enough patience to NOT try to win the
race on the first lap or the first turn.I wiil be back into the
boats again for sure,it is a matter of time.I have gotten in
and out of racing 3 times in the last 10 years.There is always
something that comes along that gets my interest more
than the boats for awhile,but after a year or so I miss the
boats and jump back in.This time it is a new bike with a 300
rear tire and a 117" S&S motor,and my wife loves to ride also,
so we are out on it 4 or 5 times aweek if the weather permits.
I will still be lurking around the boat forums of course,can't
get it completely out of the system.LOL. TTYL. Mitch
Marty Davis
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- 2,445
Check this out, it is a cool looking engine: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LNKKP0&P=GRon Zaker Jr said:Marty said it all! Time to start that new 20 boat Mr DavisMarty Davis said:John:John Knight said:
I agree with Ron, Jr about the wider front sponson stance. You can add in a few more IMPORTANT items which will help the light boat in rougher race water. If you run a few degrees (2-3) or dihedral and widen the front sponson bottom width, the boat will cushion more in rougher water. You can also narrow the sponson pad some and run a flatter amount of dihedral and it will also be fairly good in race water. If you run a 4 lb boat and another guy runs a 3.5 lb boat, the 3.5 boat will accelerate MUCH faster and if the driver is good, will outrun the heavier boat around the course. I have made the assumption that both boats have good turning characteristics and equal engines and props.
I personally have felt that a race boat of around 3.75 lbs is about the optimum weight.
Consider this: If you have a boat that is 3.5 lbs and is sturdy, you can always add weight to it for different conditions. I have had several that have a 4-6 oz plate that I bolted to the bottom into the wood motor mounts. Makes it REALLY nice when you want to do SAW at the Nats. A quarter pound is a LOT on a top level 20 Hydro in the hands of a very good driver.
The level of driving skill of the driver is MUCH more important than the weight of the boat. It is also super important that the boat be reliable, again more important than the weight of the boat.
If you plan on building a new boat every 2 seasons (or every if you are ambitious), you will automatically keep up with your improving skill level.
This is also kind of like the Horsepower discussion. RELIABILITY in the early stages and increasing attention to ALL detail as you improve over several years.
Interesting discussion, makes me miss 20 hydro a LOT.
Marty Davis
110169[/snapback]
110292[/snapback]
Fred McBroom would be proud of this (his original idea to cool the glow plug).
Marty Davis
Scooter12195
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- Sep 2, 2004
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- 261
How does the plug cooling fitting attach I wonder? Have to be some kind of quick disconnect.
John Knight
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Scooter12195 said:
Scott,
The Picco 45 I have in my rigger now has a threaded adapter that screws over the plug and into the head and has a small hole drilled in the top for the water to exit. Takes about 8-10 seconds to install. First time I have seen the one in the picture Marty attached. Be interested how it is attached.
John
Marty Davis
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John Knight said:
John:
I have not seen one of these engines in person and don't know how it is attached. I would bet that it is a push fit with an o ring, but not sure.
Marty Davis
