Quieting Boats down

[Scott Norris]

I hope all of this works. We need to move on to the chemical polution issue we have with exhaust residue contaminating the water.

I think this has been covered. The Oils we use are not Marine Polutants and the Nitro and Methanol are burned in the ignition process.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Folks let's get things back on track as to what kind of POSITIVE results we are seeing in quieting the boats down. And for the record the meter I use is a few notches above what Radio Shack sells.

 

[waltr]

I hope all of this works. We need to move on to the chemical polution issue we have with exhaust residue contaminating the water.

Hello Jet Driver,

Welcome aboard!

Really nothing to worry about.It's all covered here:

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=16588

And the MSDS sheets are here under Byron Fuels.Double click to open:

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=70&page=3

We need to stick to noise help and info here only.

Also,it would be great if you added your name to your signature so we all know who we're talking to.

It just makes things a little more comfortable around here.

 

[Scott Norris]

I hope all of this works. We need to move on to the chemical polution issue we have with exhaust residue contaminating the water.

Hello Jet Driver,

Welcome aboard!

Really nothing to worry about.It's all covered here:

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=16588

And the MSDS sheets are here under Byron Fuels.Double click to open:

https://www.intlwaters.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=70&page=3

We need to stick to noise help and info here only.

Also,it would be great if you added your name to your signature so we all know who we're talking to.

It just makes things a little more comfortable around here.

Well said Walt!

 

[AWaddle322]

Allen,

I chose not to answer until I got an answer myself. Most meters are made and calibrated but NOT certified and that is THE key, to the general public. They are made for the general temps we see from day to day. 60 to 90 degrees is the norm but does not mean that they suddenly lose their calibrations or reliability because they don't. Only in temp extremes will they become unreliable unless they are specially built for the military or commercial applications. Your example of 30 degree to 100 degree is well beyond most conditions we ever race at so it is not comparable. They say 65 to 95 still is reliable and they are a lot smarter that you and me, put together.

John if you notice I said that record trial day (most of which are held in October or November) so that 30 degree days is not out in left field as you suggest (remembering that this is In IMPBA sactioned event). I have been to record trials when it was much colder than 30 derees. As a mater of fact I have been to record trilas when it was below zero. You have had the technical person for this orginizatio say that there was a 7 db difference in 4 meters. How do you explain this? Real good calabration?

We have a hitech calibration lab at work and what you contend about the meters being that off in their reliability is "A bunch of crock for a ignorant guy who does not know what he is talking about. We calibrate tech equipment well over 100K for the government for a living and we know what we are talking about." This is in response to some of your comments you have asserted about the equipment, including the cheap Radio Shack units. They have tested them and have found them to be quite reliable. Saying that Don does not have a "real" meter is insulting to him and everyone else. Who gives you the almighty right to pass judgment on him and others to do that?

Well I have provided an osha standard that backs me up. What have you provided other than an opinion? Do you have someone on your staff that has some degree in sound? Iam all ears. were is your data to support the information that you have provided? or is just an opinion?

You keep telling all of us what the INTENT of the rule is because that serves your personal interest. Why don't you stop telling us what the intent was to be. How far was the boat running from the test area? 75' or more? Were you there? Ever been to the lake? How far is the buoy line from the shoreline? 50? 75? 100? 125? Or even 150? Rulebook specifies it can be from 50' to 150' from the shoreline. How are you going to test the 150' line from the shoreline? In the water? Not in our lake you won't. Let's get real. These are recommendations only because each site is unique - PERIOD! You yourself said the level should be APPROXIMATELY 5' above water level. Dictionary time.

If you would take the time to look at the comments I have made they have been made with evidence to back them up (look at your roostertail). If you will take the time to read the evidence of the osha standard and the roostertail you will find that they both support exactly what I say. What have you provided other than an opinion? My frieind the rule book gives hard number for distance and heigth as it does db readings. There is no interpation there. there set distance. Who are you to change them?

It is quite apparent to many of us that even if some quantifiable technical data is presented, some, including you, will not accept it. Too bad. Turn your energy into something positive for this. Take a look at this thread subject. Stop slamming people that are trying to help. You are not.

Please answere questions in your above quote that I have asked?

The only quantifiable technical data that has been presented has been by me. Why have you not taken the time to read the quantifiable technical data? I have accepted quantifiable evidence that I have provided. You my friend are the one that will not take the time to read quantifiable evidence or provide other with quantifiable evidence. this is a challange to you to provide quantifiable evidence. You provide with something more quantifiable than an OSHA standard and I promise you that I will believe it. Hell if you can prove osha is full of it I will take it a step further and try to fight the osha standard to (as tax payers we will all benifet).

John, i am glad you got how you really feel out in the air. NO PROVE ME WRONG.

Allen

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Can we please get this post Back on track!!!!!!!

Allen I understand what you are saying and your information is fine but this is not the thread for this rule debate. In this thread we are trying to see what people are doing that works for them at thier site. It may not be perfect or quatifiable but it is helpfull.

The data provided is the best that can be collected at a race site at that time. Meter calibration, location how it is mounted is helpfull but not intended to be perfect.

Lets keep the ideas and test reports flowing we are getting a bunch of good information.

Has any one tried the engine mount type that Mark Bullard talked about in a Mono?

I could build some parts if a couple of people what to test the mounting ideas. I would do it cheap, just the cost of materials and shipping for just a couple people. I am making this type of mount for my new 20 and 40 mono's.

Thanks

Brian

 

[carlnoki]

OK FOLKS, LETS KNOCK IT OFF,,,,,,,,,,,,,, OK?

THE MAIN THING IS GETTING THE BOATS "QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!"

The pipe design that Don has been testing first started life in the FAI PATTERN arena.

The basic design is a great one and with American manufacturer comming up to bat to help out in the noise issue

it is good to see it.

The CMB Boom pipe is not a very good pipe to try and quiet down, i have tried everything under the sun to do so but to no avail. So it is now in the pipe bag along with a few others.

Induction noise IS a factor in the noise generated by the boats.

Example: (and a rather large one at that), go out to the garage and pop the hood on your car/truck or what ever. start it up mash down on the gas pedal and listen. not too much noise is there? NOW open up the air cleaner cover and remove the air filter and LEAVE THE COVER ASSEMBLY OFF. start the vehicle again and mash down on the gas pedal again. BIG DIFFERANCE NOW ISN'T IT?

The same thing is going on even on our small motors. The intake noise IS there and one of the variables that has to be taken into concideration for noise abaitment.

lets all not try to make a mountain out of a mole hill . OK?

just start getting the boats QUIET and get on with our hobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and remember , QUIET is ALSO FAST

carl

 

[AWaddle322]

Can we please get this post Back on track!!!!!!!

Allen I understand what you are saying and your information is fine but this is not the thread for this rule debate. In this thread we are trying to see what people are doing that works for them at thier site. It may not be perfect or quatifiable but it is helpfull.

The data provided is the best that can be collected at a race site at that time. Meter calibration, location how it is mounted is helpfull but not intended to be perfect.

Lets keep the ideas and test reports flowing we are getting a bunch of good information.

Has any one tried the engine mount type that Mark Bullard talked about in a Mono?

I could build some parts if a couple of people what to test the mounting ideas. I would do it cheap, just the cost of materials and shipping for just a couple people. I am making this type of mount for my new 20 and 40 mono's.

Thanks

Brian, This mount is very similar to sg riger mount. I do not believe that it will be any quiter than any other rubber mounted mount wether made from delron or aluminum. The key here is how hard the rubber is.

Allen

Brian

 

[AWaddle322]

OK FOLKS, LETS KNOCK IT OFF,,,,,,,,,,,,,, OK?

THE MAIN THING IS GETTING THE BOATS "QUIET!!!!!!!!!!!"

The pipe design that Don has been testing first started life in the FAI PATTERN arena.

The basic design is a great one and with MACS comming up to bat to help out in the noise issue

it is good to see it.

The CMB Boom pipe is not a very good pipe to try and quiet down, i have tried everything under the sun to do so but to no avail. So it is now in the pipe bag along with a few others.

Induction noise IS a factor in the noise generated by the boats.

Example: (and a rather large one at that), go out to the garage and pop the hood on your car/truck or what ever. start it up mash down on the gas pedal and listen. not too much noise is there? NOW open up the air cleaner cover and remove the air filter and LEAVE THE COVER ASSEMBLY OFF. start the vehicle again and mash down on the gas pedal again. BIG DIFFERANCE NOW ISN'T IT?

The same thing is going on even on our small motors. The intake noise IS there and one of the variables that has to be taken into concideration for noise abaitment.

lets all not try to make a mountain out of a mole hill . OK?

just start getting the boats QUIET and get on with our hobby!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and remember , QUIET is ALSO FAST

carl

Carl is this a new design or is a standard mac 's quite pipe?

Allen

 

[Don Ferrette]

Carl is this a new design or is a standard mac 's quite pipe?

Allen

First off, why are you asking Carl, I'm the one testing them. And the answer is this is a new design & with one more test session I think will get the thumbs up. DO NOT start calling Macs, as soon as they are available I will let everyone know. B)

 

[AWaddle322]

Carl is this a new design or is a standard mac 's quite pipe?

Allen

First off, why are you asking Carl, I'm the one testing them. And the answer is this is a new design & with one more test session I think will get the thumbs up. DO NOT start calling Macs, as soon as they are available I will let everyone know. B)

Don, he was the one that posted the information is why I asked Carl. You care to provide any more info on this pipe??

Allen

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Can we please get this post Back on track!!!!!!!

Allen I understand what you are saying and your information is fine but this is not the thread for this rule debate. In this thread we are trying to see what people are doing that works for them at thier site. It may not be perfect or quatifiable but it is helpfull.

The data provided is the best that can be collected at a race site at that time. Meter calibration, location how it is mounted is helpfull but not intended to be perfect.

Lets keep the ideas and test reports flowing we are getting a bunch of good information.

Has any one tried the engine mount type that Mark Bullard talked about in a Mono?

I could build some parts if a couple of people what to test the mounting ideas. I would do it cheap, just the cost of materials and shipping for just a couple people. I am making this type of mount for my new 20 and 40 mono's.

Thanks

Brian, This mount is very similar to sg riger mount. I do not believe that it will be any quiter than any other rubber mounted mount wether made from delron or aluminum. The key here is how hard the rubber is.

Allen

Brian

Allen

Thats a good point, the delrin is probably not quieter and is maybe a little lighter than Aluminum. You bring up a good point about the hardness of the rubber. I wonder if there is any information on the durometer of the rubber that is in most mounts we use today.

Does anyone have any information like this? Also wherer can we get different durometer Rubber (lords type) isolators?

Brian

 

[AWaddle322]

Can we please get this post Back on track!!!!!!!

Allen I understand what you are saying and your information is fine but this is not the thread for this rule debate. In this thread we are trying to see what people are doing that works for them at thier site. It may not be perfect or quatifiable but it is helpfull.

The data provided is the best that can be collected at a race site at that time. Meter calibration, location how it is mounted is helpfull but not intended to be perfect.

Lets keep the ideas and test reports flowing we are getting a bunch of good information.

Has any one tried the engine mount type that Mark Bullard talked about in a Mono?

I could build some parts if a couple of people what to test the mounting ideas. I would do it cheap, just the cost of materials and shipping for just a couple people. I am making this type of mount for my new 20 and 40 mono's.

Thanks

Brian, This mount is very similar to sg riger mount. I do not believe that it will be any quiter than any other rubber mounted mount wether made from delron or aluminum. The key here is how hard the rubber is.

Allen

Brian

Allen

Thats a good point, the delrin is probably not quieter and is maybe a little lighter than Aluminum. You bring up a good point about the hardness of the rubber. I wonder if there is any information on the durometer of the rubber that is in most mounts we use today.

Does anyone have any information like this? Also wherer can we get different durometer Rubber (lords type) isolators?

Brian

Macmaster Carr has them In difference firmnesses and different sizes. Have always used meduim but it may be quiter to do to soifts.

Allen

 

[Don Ferrette]

Carl is this a new design or is a standard mac 's quite pipe?

Allen

First off, why are you asking Carl, I'm the one testing them. And the answer is this is a new design & with one more test session I think will get the thumbs up. DO NOT start calling Macs, as soon as they are available I will let everyone know. B)

Don, he was the one that posted the information is why I asked Carl. You care to provide any more info on this pipe??

Allen

Not yet. After I speak with the head design honcho again later today & he ok's it I'll try to post info & pics. Like I said I would like one more hard core test session (as opposed to a club race) before we post part no's & pricing. It looks like next Saturday is on target for a full test day.

 

[AWaddle322]

Carl is this a new design or is a standard mac 's quite pipe?

Allen

First off, why are you asking Carl, I'm the one testing them. And the answer is this is a new design & with one more test session I think will get the thumbs up. DO NOT start calling Macs, as soon as they are available I will let everyone know. B)

Don, he was the one that posted the information is why I asked Carl. You care to provide any more info on this pipe??

Allen

Not yet. After I speak with the head design honcho again later today & he ok's it I'll try to post info & pics. Like I said I would like one more hard core test session (as opposed to a club race) before we post part no's & pricing. It looks like next Saturday is on target for a full test day.

Well don if the speed is there , it consistant and it this quite that will be quite impressive.

Allen

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well don if the speed is there , it consistant and it this quite that will be quite impressive.

Allen

Allen I'm excited about these pipes, they are incredibly quiet & have a wide torque curve. When I ran with 3 other boats the only time you really heard the twin was coming down the front chute, you had to be there it was amazing, people watching couldn't believe how quiet the boat was. I will say it is a very different pipe in terms of the powerband, very broad range. You go from a cruise to WOT without ever really feeling the typical "hit" of a pipe coming on. The transition though it's powerband is so smooth it's deceiving........... B)

 

[Chris Wood]

Well don if the speed is there , it consistant and it this quite that will be quite impressive.

Allen

Allen I'm excited about these pipes, they are incredibly quiet & have a wide torque curve. When I ran with 3 other boats the only time you really heard the twin was coming down the front chute, you had to be there it was amazing, people watching couldn't believe how quiet the boat was. I will say it is a very different pipe in terms of the powerband, very broad range. You go from a cruise to WOT without ever really feeling the typical "hit" of a pipe coming on. The transition though it's powerband is so smooth it's deceiving........... B)

don,

what motors are you using with these pipes.

chris

 

[waltr]

Don,

Are they going to be able to shrink the technology to smaller pipes?

Like 21s, 45s etc? :huh:

 

[Don Ferrette]

Well don if the speed is there , it consistant and it this quite that will be quite impressive.

Allen

Allen I'm excited about these pipes, they are incredibly quiet & have a wide torque curve. When I ran with 3 other boats the only time you really heard the twin was coming down the front chute, you had to be there it was amazing, people watching couldn't believe how quiet the boat was. I will say it is a very different pipe in terms of the powerband, very broad range. You go from a cruise to WOT without ever really feeling the typical "hit" of a pipe coming on. The transition though it's powerband is so smooth it's deceiving........... B)

don,

what motors are you using with these pipes.

chris

Modded CMB90 Evo 2000's. B)

 

[AWaddle322]

Well don if the speed is there , it consistant and it this quite that will be quite impressive.

Allen

Allen I'm excited about these pipes, they are incredibly quiet & have a wide torque curve. When I ran with 3 other boats the only time you really heard the twin was coming down the front chute, you had to be there it was amazing, people watching couldn't believe how quiet the boat was. I will say it is a very different pipe in terms of the powerband, very broad range. You go from a cruise to WOT without ever really feeling the typical "hit" of a pipe coming on. The transition though it's powerband is so smooth it's deceiving........... B)

Don, well the good part is if they are the quite and that fast they will not be hard to sell if they are consistant. We have all seen loud and quite pipes that were fast but not consistant. Find something that is fast and consistant and the masses will follow because if you cant beat them then join them. Until people are continually beat with quite pipes the masses will not follow. you are actaully on the correct tract to really quiten boats if you can show up at races and win over the louder (wehter muffled or not) pipes. Until then the masses will comply but also believe the old saying the more horses the more oats you have to feed them (fuel) the more oats you feed them the more they pop (exhaust).

Allen