hook on the bottom of the hull

[El Zorro]

Well Now we are seeing hook it the trailing edges of Hydro sponsons!!!!!!

Many of the limited Inboard hydroplanes ( 145, 225, 265 and 280 cubic inch classes ) built by Will Farmer in the 1960's and '70's had hook built into the sponsons. Guess this is nothing new, huh?

Dick Tyndall

 

[John Finch]

Well Now we are seeing hook it the trailing edges of Hydro sponsons!!!!!!

Many of the limited Inboard hydroplanes ( 145, 225, 265 and 280 cubic inch classes ) built by Will Farmer in the 1960's and '70's had hook built into the sponsons. Guess this is nothing new, huh?

Dick Tyndall

Yea, Pinckert expermented with hook on hydros when I was still in high scholl and flying u-control airplanes. We keep re-inventing the wheel.

 

[John Finch]

A center pad can work well on SAW boats I usually add a bunch of fiberglass cloth and resin inside the hull at the keel so that I can sand a pad into the hull when at the lake adjusting the ride of a SAW boat.

interesting. So a "pad" is typically a small lateral flat-spot perpendicular (or tangent) to the keel, starting a the transom, going forward a specific length? Approx. how wide typically?

David,

I typically fill the keel from the transom to about 8 inches forward of the keel on the inside of the hull. I then sand the keel so that it makes a pie shaped pad on the bottom of the boat. Back in the 80s I did this on a lot of sightler mono hulls and then the Twin Crafts. I experimented with pads from 1/4 inch wide to a full inch wide. The 3/4 inch pad for example was 3/4 inches wide at the transom and extended about 8 inches forward where it came to a point at the keel. What you end up with is a triangle shaped pad. Keep in mind as you sand the pad into the hull......the wider the pad, the more it cuts the bottom of the boat up towards the transom. So, the wider the pad, the more positive the angle of attack of the whole hull. A narrow pad angles the bow a bit but a 1 inch pad at the transom makes the bow ride much higher. This is the meathod I used because it keeps the boat legal.

I have run the pad more forward. In fact all the way to the point at about 2/3rds the length of the hull when using a 1/4 inch pad. The flat forward of the cg can help keep a boat from spinning out in the corners because it lets the bow slide rather than bite.

I experimented with a pad 1 inch wide all the way up to 2/3rds the length of the hull and it caused the boat to bounce the bow up in the air when hitting a wave rather than cutting the wave.

I also cut a 1 inch wide pad to just forward of the CG and did not pie shape it. It was one inch wide all the way to just forward of the CG. That made the boat illegal as a mono as I knew it would and I raced it in the hydro class with the cats and riggers. It was fun and back then the hydros were not as reliable as they are today.

The 20 mono SAW record KP and I hold right now was set with a little boat I designed with a 21 degree vee with a 10 degree vee designed into the hull at the keel It is a good comprimise between a deep vee and a pad.

 

[dwilfong]

Here are some pics of a hook or a wedge in a Hydro stream Vector.

This will be my next project to play with.

would love to make a scale model of this hull to test first.

 

[David Bryant]

A center pad can work well on SAW boats I usually add a bunch of fiberglass cloth and resin inside the hull at the keel so that I can sand a pad into the hull when at the lake adjusting the ride of a SAW boat.

interesting. So a "pad" is typically a small lateral flat-spot perpendicular (or tangent) to the keel, starting a the transom, going forward a specific length? Approx. how wide typically?

David,

I typically fill the keel from the transom to about 8 inches forward of the keel on the inside of the hull. I then sand the keel so that it makes a pie shaped pad on the bottom of the boat. Back in the 80s I did this on a lot of sightler mono hulls and then the Twin Crafts. I experimented with pads from 1/4 inch wide to a full inch wide. The 3/4 inch pad for example was 3/4 inches wide at the transom and extended about 8 inches forward where it came to a point at the keel. What you end up with is a triangle shaped pad. Keep in mind as you sand the pad into the hull......the wider the pad, the more it cuts the bottom of the boat up towards the transom. So, the wider the pad, the more positive the angle of attack of the whole hull. A narrow pad angles the bow a bit but a 1 inch pad at the transom makes the bow ride much higher. This is the meathod I used because it keeps the boat legal.

I have run the pad more forward. In fact all the way to the point at about 2/3rds the length of the hull when using a 1/4 inch pad. The flat forward of the cg can help keep a boat from spinning out in the corners because it lets the bow slide rather than bite.

I experimented with a pad 1 inch wide all the way up to 2/3rds the length of the hull and it caused the boat to bounce the bow up in the air when hitting a wave rather than cutting the wave.

I also cut a 1 inch wide pad to just forward of the CG and did not pie shape it. It was one inch wide all the way to just forward of the CG. That made the boat illegal as a mono as I knew it would and I raced it in the hydro class with the cats and riggers. It was fun and back then the hydros were not as reliable as they are today.

The 20 mono SAW record KP and I hold right now was set with a little boat I designed with a 21 degree vee with a 10 degree vee designed into the hull at the keel It is a good comprimise between a deep vee and a pad.

wow, thanks for that detailed illustration. I can totally visualize the dynamics you're describing- affecting the ride attitude, positive or negative.

And it's hard to believe trim plates can actually impede boat speed like 8mph? Seems to me trim plates are really just an "extended hook" in a sense. I guess a real hook is, technically, a continuous surface as opposed to a broken-up surface?

 

[John Finch]

David,

Wow, That is alot of hook. The transom shot you are looking at is illegal for IMPBA because the pad is deeper on its outside edges than the keel or center of the hull. This pad makes a tunnel, which would make the hull a hydro for IMPBA standards. Just want to let you know that before you start experimenting. That is a lot of hook for sure.

John

 

[moparbarn]

Wedge1.jpg

Wedge2.jpg

Wedge3.jpg

Here are some pics of a hook or a wedge in a Hydro stream Vector.

This will be my next project to play with.

would love to make a scale model of this hull to test first.

david, try to find an old byrd's hornet. a rc boat (.21 size) patterned after the vector. i have 1, i'll send ya some pics. pm me your cell phone #, or email addy.

 

[moparbarn]

David,

Wow, That is alot of hook. The transom shot you are looking at is illegal for IMPBA because the pad is deeper on its outside edges than the keel or center of the hull. This pad makes a tunnel, which would make the hull a hydro for IMPBA standards. Just want to let you know that before you start experimenting. That is a lot of hook for sure.

John

john, when that boat is aired out properly, the hook is mostly out of the water. the front deck & foward hull have a lot of aerodynamics built into them to carry the hull. done right, only about the last 6" to 8" is actually touching the water. notice where the "speedcoat" is applied to just the very back of the boat in david's pics. interestingly, harold pipcorn (hydrostream's ceo/owner) filled the concave pad in & made it flat across on his race boats. hook remained, though. maybe it was just a sales gimmick?

 

[John Finch]

You need to share those photos Robin!

John

 

[moparbarn]

posting photos on here has never worked out well for me. i can send some to anyone that would be willing to post them. lmk.

 

[John Finch]

If you can make that old roadrunner gas rigger run like you did in the condition it was in you can certainly figure out how to post pictures. LOL

John

 

[moparbarn]

remember that old advertising phrase "this computer is user friendly"? well, "this user is not computer friendly"

. i don't even know how to cut, copy, paste.........

btw, that wasn't even a road runner, just a hurricane road runner clone with a $159 gizmo mid mod 26 in it. i was fairly proud of how well i got it going by the end of the season, though. but you & a few others experience & advice had A LOT to do with that. thank you for all you have taught me over the years

!

 

[John Finch]

You are certainly welcome..... any time Robin.

 

[dwilfong]

Wedge1.jpg

Wedge2.jpg

Wedge3.jpg

Here are some pics of a hook or a wedge in a Hydro stream Vector.

This will be my next project to play with.

would love to make a scale model of this hull to test first.

david, try to find an old byrd's hornet. a rc boat (.21 size) patterned after the vector. i have 1, i'll send ya some pics. pm me your cell phone #, or email addy.

[email protected] Would be nice to get one to just test with. have no plans on racing it.

 

[BigChuck]

David,

Wow, That is alot of hook. The transom shot you are looking at is illegal for IMPBA because the pad is deeper on its outside edges than the keel or center of the hull. This pad makes a tunnel, which would make the hull a hydro for IMPBA standards. Just want to let you know that before you start experimenting. That is a lot of hook for sure.

John

John...........maybe its time to visit the present,and move forward with a step design.............?????

 

[moparbarn]

David, i'll try to get some pics sent to you tonight. feel free to post them here.

 

[dwilfong]

Thanks Robin very intersting. It has the concave ride pad but no hook.

Have you ever run this boat or one like it?

 

[moparbarn]

not in a rc size, david, have run some full scale ob monos, my old hydrasports x-270 bass boat was similar,twithout the concave ride pad. had some hook/wedge in the bottom, but nothing near as much as the hydrostream. the byrd.s hornet has no hook in the bottom. the pad is flat for 2 3/4" then starts a long gradual rise to the bow. in full scale boats the wedge is more to angle the ride pad & help lift the back of the hull. the the contour of the bow flare & deck carry the bow. & with a good jack plate with enough set back & the right prop, you then ride on just the very last few inches of the pad. the hornet shown hasn't been drilled or rigged, that's a project for this winter. rc ib monos seem to run flatter, with a lot more of the hull in contact with the water than ob monos of any size. seems the hook in a seaducer may act differently than a hydrostream's.......might have to do with the ob being hung 6" to 10" inches behind the transom on a jack plate. my x-270 liked as much weight as i could get in the back as possible, so cg was prolly farther back than our rc boats. the x-270 was a light weight, hi performance bass boat. the only things i had in front of the console was fishing rods, rain gear & life jackets. behind the seats was 24 gal. of gas, 3 LARGE 12 volt batteries, anchor, tools , built in ice chest. & tackle boxes. the more i put back there, the happier it was, the better it "flew". some different dynamics going on betweem ob monos & ib monos, for sure. i know my htv mod vp (a vee hull with sponsons added) ob rides way farther back on the pad area than my seaducer ib mono. at full song, the sponsons aren't contacting the water, it is on the pad. rides much more like a full scale ob mono than a rc ib mono.

 

[John Finch]

David,

Wow, That is alot of hook. The transom shot you are looking at is illegal for IMPBA because the pad is deeper on its outside edges than the keel or center of the hull. This pad makes a tunnel, which would make the hull a hydro for IMPBA standards. Just want to let you know that before you start experimenting. That is a lot of hook for sure.

John

John...........maybe its time to visit the present,and move forward with a step design.............?????

Chuck,

I tried to change some of the rules years ago when I was District 12 director. What I found out is that any steps automaticaly put the mono hull into the hydro class. There was no way I could think of to make steps legal on a mono without it being classed a hydro. I tried to get wings legal on a mono but that went up in flames too. It is what it is.

 

[Andy Greene]

Image121920131949321.jpg

Image121920131950061.jpg

downsized_Image121920131950311.jpg

Image121920131952571.jpg

Thanks Robin very intersting. It has the concave ride pad but no hook.

Have you ever run this boat or one like it?

I still say that would make a cool ModVp