Futaba Fasst 2.4 Range

[Rokieboater]

When I talked to the Futaba techs they said the same thing Bill is saying, the risk of reset from voltage drop and the time to re-acquire the signal. Six volts is the way to go, as per factory recommendation. B)
And ditto on the antenna thing, the techs could not believe people are actually running this way. :huh:

Don, do you mean running with the antenna in the box and not vertical? I am planning on buying this system and not sure which way the antenna should be.

Robert

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

I just confirmed with the folks in Champaign that Futaba STRONGLY recommends placing the antenna in a vertical orientation versus a horizontal one. They specifically warn NOT to place it horizontally.

Taking it to an extreme, if there was ever an incident that ended up in court I can tell you for a fact that one of the first things Plaintiff's attorney will do is try to determine if all the manufacturer's recommendations were followed. Having been an expert witness in RC related injury cases I can tell you this is a solid fact.

So I guess people are free to do what they want, in the mean time I'll continue to follow the recommendations of the people who designed and manufacture the radio. I simply cannot conceive of a valid technical reason to do otherwise.

 

[Jerry Dunlap]

Here's photo of my 1/4 Scale "Kneeler" with vertical antenna tube for 2.4 FASST rx. On my tunnel hulls the cowling covers the vertical tube. Sorry about the double photo post. The antenna tube extends under the driver.

JD

 

[Bob Morton]

Here's photo of my 1/4 Scale "Kneeler" with vertical antenna tube for 2.4 FASST rx. On my tunnel hulls the cowling covers the vertical tube. Sorry about the double photo post. The antenna tube extends under the driver.
JD

Cooling boat I like that there is no eighteen inch anntena . Looks like a boat

Bob

 

[Rigged]

in the mean time I'll continue to follow the recommendations of the people who designed and manufacture the radio. I simply cannot conceive of a valid technical reason to do otherwise.

If i was sponsored by Futaba (dont care how big or small of a sponshorship it is...its still a sponsorship) i guess i would do what they tell me to do too.

While they strongly recommend "NOT" to keep the antenna in a horizontal position....why cant we get anymore to the reasoning other then line of sight. Ive seen these systems used in mono's that were so tall, the antenna was STILL under the deck and cowl... which puts that "line of sight" straight out the window into the storm gutter on the corner.

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

If i was sponsored by Futaba (dont care how big or small of a sponshorship it is...its still a sponsorship) i guess i would do what they tell me to do too.

You really, truly believe this is why I am saying this??

Well then consider this. They make a number of servos that they list as 4.8 volt only. I tell people, no worries, run at 6 volts I do all day long (9255 for instance).

They have other servos that they say Nicad only. I tell people, no worries use NiMH or even lithium packs (regulated to 6 volts).

So you'll have to base your desire to reject my advice and that of Futaba on something more concrete than the fact that I wear their shirt.

While they strongly recommend "NOT" to keep the antenna in a horizontal position....why cant we get anymore to the reasoning other then line of sight. Ive seen these systems used in mono's that were so tall, the antenna was STILL under the deck and cowl... which puts that "line of sight" straight out the window into the storm gutter on the corner.

Well, you see, it's called "physics". Futaba did not make it up. Radio frequency wavelength at 2.4 GHz is very short and can easily be attenuated by solid physical objects like engines, pipes, big batteries, fuel tanks, etc. So anything you can do the optimize the installation to minimize that possibility is a good thing.

Secondly, the radio signal is what is called "vertically polarized". That means the optimal antenna orientation between the 2 antennas (TX and RX) is vertical. Again, this is not a Futaba design thing, it is an absolute fact of this type of radio transmission.

Many airplane installations cannot get the antenna outside the fuselage (40% aerobatic planes for instance). But they install the RX in positions that maximize the orientation for the antennas. Many put the RX high in the fuse so the antennas are close to the fuselage. And those receivers use two external antennas which make certain that at least one of them "sees" the TX antenna all the time. And they are installed at right angles to each other to maintain the vertical polarization orientation between the TX and RX as much as possible.

And last, 2.4 GHz wavelength will penetrate fiberglass without a hitch, so the example you cite does not apply. If the hull was made of CF or there is a CF pipe in the way, that signal will have significant problems.

Like I said, people are free to do what they want to. Nobody can stop you from that. But there is no sound technical justification for doing anything other than installing it as recommended.

While running it horizontal may work, it is also more likely to have issues as opposed to the recommended installation. It does not say you will absolutely have a problem, just that it is a higher probability event and I for one and not willing to take that bet with a big fast boat.

But like you say, I wear their shirt so this is likely nothing more than the party line. But ask yourself, if it truly did not matter, why would they recommend it in the first place??

FWIW I run the FASST system in 7 FE boats and one gas cat. All my antennas are installed vertically. And so there is no confusion at all I am on the Futaba Air Team and not the Marine Team.

 

[moparbarn]

i'm not on either side of this fence. i run a jr fm system. i have seen 2.4 antennas installed ALL SORTS of ways in boats. in box, outside-taped down to lid & how futaba recommends. i have seen no issues in any of them. this is for FUTABA only. i'm not saying that futaba is wrong, or anyone else is, either. what i am saying is they (futaba) spent a LOT more time & $ than any of us to understand, develope & market this system. they might just have a clue about what 2.4 works best with....... just my .02 worth, they don't spend big $ on research & development for fun. if they or any manfacturer recommends something, it prolly is worth paying attention to. not always, just 99.99% of the time . we're only talking about a few inches, how hard can that be to integrate into the design of a boat ???????????

 

[Grimracer]

Mind if I help clarify some..

Ron Jr is telling you what his experience with the system is. He has elected to experiment with his antenna placement. (I have too). He said noting about doing what he said.

As a member of Team Futaba’s Marine Team Ron has elected to share his setup with you in hopes it will gain you some confidence in the system..(it is a fantastic system).. Ron is one hell of a stick, likes to help others and will gladly share his setups with you and that is why he is a member. This thread is proof.

Take care racers.

Grim

 

[Richie R]

I just got the 3PM 2.4 this winter and put it in all my boats. Was kind of unsure how it would be, but after the World Tunnel race Iam quite inpressed with it. I did install my antenna in the vertical postion which only sticks up about 3" max out of the cowl. So it is a lot cleaner looking than the old way.

I did not have any issues with it at all even in the 8 boat heats. I also ran way deep in turns 3 and 4 and no problems.

It is way cool to be able to work on your boats while the races are going on and not have to worry about being able to get a clip.

This system really cool so far but I do not for see any issues with it.

This is the first time I used it and I would recommend this to anyone who is thinkig about upgrading their radio.

Richie R

 

[Boris Mazor]

I just got the 3PM 2.4 this winter and put it in all my boats. Was kind of unsure how it would be, but after the World Tunnel race Iam quite inpressed with it. I did install my antenna in the vertical postion which only sticks up about 3" max out of the cowl. So it is a lot cleaner looking than the old way.I did not have any issues with it at all even in the 8 boat heats. I also ran way deep in turns 3 and 4 and no problems.

It is way cool to be able to work on your boats while the races are going on and not have to worry about being able to get a clip.

This system really cool so far but I do not for see any issues with it.

This is the first time I used it and I would recommend this to anyone who is thinkig about upgrading their radio.

Richie R

Hi, Richie! Can I see the picture of antenna connection? Thanks. [email protected]. Boris

 

[mark voorhies]

Mind if I help clarify some..
Ron Jr is telling you what his experience with the system is. He has elected to experiment with his antenna placement. (I have too). He said noting about doing what he said.

As a member of Team Futaba's Marine Team Ron has elected to share his setup with you in hopes it will gain you some confidence in the system..(it is a fantastic system).. Ron is one hell of a stick, likes to help others and will gladly share his setups with you and that is why he is a member. This thread is proof.

Take care racers.

Grim

Mike ,

For you and Ron Jr. to say there is no problems, Hey, that's all I need to hear. Two guys I know and trust.

Thanks,look forward to my first FASST season!!

 

[WikiWiki1]

HI Guys,
Thanks for the info, I would suggest to futaba to change the manual that comes with the radios (If all is proven to work correctly now). I bought a futaba 3pm about a year ago and before I even tried it I read in the manual on page 57 in the reference section :

Reference

Ratings

*Specifications and ratings are subject to change without prior notice.

- Communication method: One-way operation system

- Mode: PPM, HRS (Auto-detect)

- Maximum operating range: 80m (Optimum condition)

- For safety: F/S, B-F/S, ID (About 4 billion ways of pair identifications)

Transmitter T3PM-2.4G:

(Wheel system, 3 channels)

- Transmitting frequency: 2.4GHz band

- Power requirement: (NiCd battery) NT8F700B(9.6V),

(Dry cell battery) Penlight x 8(12V)

- Current drain: 250mA or less

- Transmission antenna: 1/2 mono-pole

Receiver R603FF:

- Power requirement: 6V NiCd battery

- DSC function available

- RS232C port: (for factory use only)

- Size: 39x26x14mm (excluding a projection part)

- Weight: 14.1g

I am not a radio guru or questioning or doubting anyone, all I am saying is according to the manual which I was able to download thru tower hobby this morning. The maximum operating range is 80m under optimum conditions. When I saw that i was rather disappointed so I called futaba and asked if there was a mistake in the print, 80m just didn't seem to be alot ( futaba said that 80 meters is max range). If i would have known the manual was wrong the i would have stayed with that radio, can any of you futaba guys influence them to revise the manual so not to mislead others like I was mislead.

Paul

p.s. I do see that they mention the ratings can change without notice, but I would hope a major range change would be documented.

After fighting with the Spektrum "fail safe specter" for too long I need a new radio system. Is the 80 meter range for real or a good safe number put in by Futaba? I want the convenience of no fiddling with the freq's but am concerned about the range. I see the 3PM does not come with the 603fs receiver (dual ant). Does the 603ff work well? I'm trying to avoid having to change radios again.

Thanks, Brent

 

[Don Ferrette]

After fighting with the Spektrum "fail safe specter" for too long I need a new radio system. Is the 80 meter range for real or a good safe number put in by Futaba? I want the convenience of no fiddling with the freq's but am concerned about the range. I see the 3PM does not come with the 603fs receiver (dual ant). Does the 603ff work well? I'm trying to avoid having to change radios again.
Thanks, Brent

Hey there Brent-

Do yourself a favor & go with the 603FS receivers. I have switched to the Futaba FASST system for this season in everything from the twins to the scale boats using the 3PK-S TX equipped with the FASST 2.4 module kit that included one 603FS-

<a href="http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...LXLZP3&P=SM" target="_blank">http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti00...LXLZP3&P=SM</a>

The 603FS is definitely better than the FF model & well worth the $10 extra per RX. I have every RX antenna lead mounted with as much as possible in the vertical position, typically about 3 inches above deck, and have had zero issues with the system. The twins still use redundant RX's and the Futaba FASST system will bind 2 RX's to the same model no problem. And absolutely use 6 volt packs as 4.8 packs when low under load can cause the RX's to signal reset or failsafe with a long delay. I have gotten to really like the 3PK TX that at first I thought was a little goofy looking but it has a large easy to read screen & you can one touch navigate thru the set ups really fast. I'm happy with the system & after spending 3 days at the SpringNats never once waiting for a frequency clip I'm hooked. B)

 

[bzubee]

I found no problems with my new FASST system but I do use 6volt RX packs and have the antena vertical out of the box. only disadvantage I have found is you no longer have a long antena mounted on the Transmitter so you can use it to drag your boat a little closer to the shore.

 

[hydro]

Personally speaking , I prefer the old systems. I use magnum JR AM for years and had zero issues with it and range up the bucket. The only real advantage I see in the new FASST system is Spread Spectrum for no frequency conflicts. I myself never have a frequency problem on my radios. I use the 27 MHZ CB band and had custom crystals made for my own "Private Frequency" since I am a radio technician and radio hobbyist it just goes with the territory. So if I have a frequency conflict and the CD says I need to change , I say no problem ...... I got all the freqs... LOL ... I think in the future if I start racing again , I will splurge and buy a new futaba magnum fancy computer radio but in FM modulation this time. They are so inexpensive, but it will have my special crystals in it !!! no FASST low power transmit and crappy 80 meter SO SO range for me ...

 

[Wesleys Custom Graphics]

I found no problems with my new FASST system but I do use 6volt RX packs and have the antena vertical out of the box. only disadvantage I have found is you no longer have a long antena mounted on the Transmitter so you can use it to drag your boat a little closer to the shore.

I found that to be a real issue as well!! I was even thinking about breaking off some of my old antennas and strapping them to my new transmitter just for that purpose.

 

[dwb2620]

The only problem I have with my FASST system is fighting the urge to reach up and extend my transmitter antenna!

David

 

[Don Ferrette]

The only problem I have with my FASST system is fighting the urge to reach up and extend my transmitter antenna!
David

Glad I'm not the only one who's tried to do that!

 

[impba3548]

If the antenna mounting is vertical, the transmitter antenna needs to be vertical, the signal attenuation is 20 db from vertical to horizantal (cross polarization).

I have had a few issues with interference with mine, but not enough to make it go into failsafe long enough to kill the engine. This only has happened sporadically.

The 603fs receiver does better than the 603ff, I have used both and I like the 603fs better, I think its just the extra antenna, as I dont always hold the antenna vertical as I should on the transmitter.

The throttle trim needs some attention on the transmitter, ( I run gassers and the trim doesnt go down far enough to get the idle speed low enough), it can be done though with epa settings etc on the low end.

Also having to hit the select button 14 times to get to the model change etc, it is quite a procedure to go thru for that on the 3pm model.

I need to try the third channel as I dont think it has a linear setting, eventually I would like to try a third channel needle on the boat.

All in all I love the system! I havent used it a full season yet, but its a thumbs up so far.........

Some of the systems have heat issues, and binding issues, I havent experienced this on my systems to date.

mike sr

 

[Bill-SOCAL]

When you say you get interference but not failsafe, how is that?? Failsafe IS the result of interference. What are you observing that makes you believe you are getting interference?

You say the throttle trim does not go down low enough. You need to adjust your linkage if you cannot trim low enough for what you want.

If you push and hold the "SEL" button for 2 seconds it will go backwards through the menus. You will get to the model select screen very fast. Then you will have to step through the model once there.

The third channel is not proportional. It is ON/OFF on the 3PM. I use it mixed with throttle to set a high idle for starting. Works great for that.

I use both receivers and have not noticed a difference between the two. YMMV.