ESC rules in IMPBA/NAMBA

[Tim leyde]

I am a NEWBIE to FE, as I am building a spec tunnel. I have a VS1, UL motor, and a Turnigy 120 ESC. In another forum a post was made that stated something to the piont as follows:

Namba = Any ESC with a spec motor

IMPBA = 60 ESC (AQ)? with a spec motor

I dont want to cause an argument by any means, Just want to understand the rules. I run in IMPBA and if I'm building a spec boat, I want it leagel.

In IMPBA can any 60 ESC be used or does it need to be the AQ one?

As stated in a another thread the Turnigy 120 dosnt have any advantages do to the spec motor, then why cant it be used in IMPBA?

Like I said I'm NEW to FE and am just wanting to know.

Tim

 

[SeanKewley]

I am a NEWBIE to FE, as I am building a spec tunnel. I have a VS1, UL motor, and a Turnigy 120 ESC. In another forum a post was made that stated something to the piont as follows:

Namba = Any ESC with a spec motor

IMPBA = 60amp ESC (AQ)? with a spec motor

I dont want to cause an argument by any means, Just want to understand the rules. I run in IMPBA and if I'm building a spec boat, I want it leagel.

Tim

Some of us are still discussing whether or not to add an official class for the P-limited boats as we already have quite a few power classes to choose from in FE for IMPBA. Here in IMPBA District 4 we run the limited motors with no restriction on ESC. In District 12 and 13 they are restricting the ESCs to those offered by ProBoat and Aquacraft.

How many other racers in your district/club are running P-limited boats? What controllers are they using? If they are using a wide variety of ESCs... leave the ESC open. If they are using ProBoat and AQ ESCs, set the rules to that. Each club and district are different, so set the rules that work best for you.

 

[Tim leyde]

Sean,

,

I changed some of my wording as you were responding. My club is the TCMBC in St. Paul/Minniapolis area D6. I am just starting into FE. I will just us the ESC I have and go from there.

I would really like to get an electric class going in our club.

Thanks

Tim

 

[SeanKewley]

I would really like to get an electric class going in our club.

Thanks

Tim

Let us know if you do. I know of 6 guys that would more than likely make the trip up your way if you have FE classes. Some of us race nitro too (sport 20, sport 40, and D mono.) Any chance you might be interested in attending a race in Kenosha, WI?

 

[Doug Smock]

Some of us are still discussing whether or not to add an official class for the P-limited boats as we already have quite a few power classes to choose from in FE for IMPBA. Here in IMPBA District 4 we run the limited motors with no restriction on ESC. In District 12 and 13 they are restricting the ESCs to those offered by ProBoat and Aquacraft.

How many other racers in your district/club are running P-limited boats? What controllers are they using? If they are using a wide variety of ESCs... leave the ESC open. If they are using ProBoat and AQ ESCs, set the rules to that. Each club and district are different, so set the rules that work best for you.

What he said.

Have fun and if we can help just say the word. B)

Doug

 

[sailr]

I don't understand Restricting the ESC to the original, I have not found that a different ESC gives you any advantage. The factory ESC's are the weak points in the Aquacraft and Proboat offerings. Changing to a different ESC is for reliability, not for performance. The motor is gonna draw the amps it needs regardless of the size of the ESC!

Namba does not restrict to the OEM esc.

 

[lohring]

The difference between the AquaCraft ESC and an aftermarket ESC in a P spec hydro is at least 5 mph. It is about the same in a tunnel. The aftermarket units have lower internal resistance as well as higher current capacity. This lets you run more prop and the motor becomes the weak link. The cost doesn't need to be higher, but it means that a new racer can't take his UL-1 components and build a boat.

Lohring Miller

 

[Don Ferrette]

The difference between the AquaCraft ESC and an aftermarket ESC in a P spec hydro is at least 5 mph. It is about the same in a tunnel. The aftermarket units have lower internal resistance as well as higher current capacity. This lets you run more prop and the motor becomes the weak link. The cost doesn't need to be higher, but it means that a new racer can't take his UL-1 components and build a boat.

Lohring Miller

Exactly. And if the motor becomes sacrificial for the sake of a distinct speed advantage (and yes the advantage is there) then it becomes just another money class going to the guys who don't care if they burn down a motor each race. We are having great success with the spec ESC/motor combo and new guys can be competitive while learning the value of a well set up boat since everyone runs the same powerplant. B)

 

[sailr]

The difference between the AquaCraft ESC and an aftermarket ESC in a P spec hydro is at least 5 mph. It is about the same in a tunnel. The aftermarket units have lower internal resistance as well as higher current capacity. This lets you run more prop and the motor becomes the weak link. The cost doesn't need to be higher, but it means that a new racer can't take his UL-1 components and build a boat.

Lohring Miller

I have been running P SPEC for a long time now and not sure where you get the 5mph difference. I have found no difference whatsoever in performance between the AQ and aftermarket esc's. I just don't like spending $90 to replace the AQ when it blows when I can buy a better esc for less money.

 

[Bill Britton]

I don't see that.

I run a UL1 esc and ran down another boat after I jumped the start that was running a Turnigy 120 esc. Took me eight laps (short course) but I did catch him. I see no loss of power running a UL1 esc at all. Plus I can run anywhere and be legal.

PS* My P-Spec Lynx runs approx. 52-53mph

 

[HTV Boats]

I do not see spec classes becoming dominated by guy using $200-500 ESC's and disposo $60 motors to win with. What we have now is kind of a monopoly given to Proboat and Aquacraft. To this point racing is not driving sales so we are not a large consideration in their profits. For the sake of argument what if a racing rivalry started say between Ms Geico and Motly Crews that got manufacturers involved in making newer more powerful equipment availiable. We could get caught up in having to update equipment to stay competative. Look at what the repercusions of the new air cooled OS going to be in sport outboards? Ante' up or ??. Thats just one of the drawbacks of limited classes.

Back to the point here when you have a better unit at a cheaper price like the T-120 why cannot it be added to an approved equipment list. Doesn't ROAR do this with cars? Let the guys who actually race in these classes decide what works and what makes economic sense. Sensible people can make sensible rules and keep racing competative. This seems to be a somewhat geographic issue now with local rules applying so be careful what you enact as a group. From what I see with the FE tunnel side here in Florida controllers won't be a factor. I have Aquacrafts and Turnigys and will comply with districts I travel to but will not support the limitation in this district.

Mic Halbrehder

 

[Doug Smock]

The difference between the AquaCraft ESC and an aftermarket ESC in a P spec hydro is at least 5 mph. It is about the same in a tunnel. The aftermarket units have lower internal resistance as well as higher current capacity. This lets you run more prop and the motor becomes the weak link. The cost doesn't need to be higher, but it means that a new racer can't take his UL-1 components and build a boat.

Lohring Miller

I respectfully disagree.

And again, from another thread.

This is the 35-56-2030KV Brushless Marine Motor for the

AquaCraft UL-1 Superior FE Hydro RTR 2.4GHz (AQUB20**).

FEATURES: Installed gold plated 4mm bullet connectors

High efficiency

Double shielded permanently lubricated dual ball bearings

INCLUDES: One 2030KV Brushless Marine Motor

REQUIRES: Installation in the boat

SPECS: Can Length: 56mm (2.2")

Can Diameter: 36mm (1.4")

Shaft Length: 15mm (0.59")

Shaft Diameter: 5mm (0.20")

kV Rating: 2030 rpm/V

Weight (incl. connectors): 7.48 oz. (212g)

Input Voltage: 7-18.5V

Max Constant Current: 50A

Max Surge Current: 80A/5 seconds

Aquacraft really needs to change the last two lines to read this.........

"Even though these motors have 14ga wire hanging out of them, they are capable of 90 to 100 amp loads without harming them". "It is common for them to smell during normal operation". :blink:

"These little things just keep giving and giving. We fully expect them to eventually replace every electric motor on the planet". :lol:

Whatever you decide to build, run the equipment within the specifications, keep it dry, and it will serve you well.

If I can help let me know. [email protected]

Doug

All the best,

Doug

PS Mic. Why not an inexpensive 60 amp ESC?

 

[HTV Boats]

Doug,

Low cost 60 amp ESC. Your baiting me here as we all know the AQ is a very good ESC and probably better and will outlast most 60 amp units. That said when were trying to sell this class to existing tunnel guys which is our focus and tell them they need a $85-$90 contoller, when a $50 dollar T-120 or maybe the Himodel 200a I just converted $45 + a water cooling plate will work, and allow them to experiment with larger motors for other tunnel classes. Would a $100 T-180 or Swordfish 200amp ruin spec classes? Or allow people to expand in other FE boats? The motor is the fuse or equalizer in my opinion. If you ruled any controller allowed that cost less than $100 would that effect competition? As I said I will comply to local rules when I travel. Do you honestly think a racer comming down to our tunnel races in Florida is at a disadvantage in the spec tunnel class? I hope we can grow this and other classe if we don't get too crazy with hoops to jump through. To somebody new comming in I would recomend the AQ 60amp unit as it should give them trouble free service. I just can't make a rule that may give them a reason to not build an FE. If it weren't for $50 cheap lipo's to get guys started we wouldn't even have this thread. In this economy cheap gets them in. Then they pay up later.

I know some feedback from FE guys here already that they are not looking to have to change controlers to race outside of Florida. They will stay home and well just have more races here.

Mic

On the "stock" 60a AQ do you have to use the Deans connectors? When NAMBA makes a rule thats what they might do? Be careful what you ask for.

 

[Bill Britton]

I can see both sides here.

Setting the AQ or PB as the esc to use will keep the FE newbies from getting an esc that has timing adjustment capability, and thus, from posting here a month later asking why his stuff blew up.

On the other hand if someone wants to get a different esc, be my guest. At best you will beat me in a heat. So what. At worst you'll smoke your motor. I have enough confidence in my equipment and driving skill (Do I have any driving skill?!) that I feel I can compensate.

Bottom line, Do what you want. Me? I'm gonna go with the flow. With the UL1 esc I can run anywhere without buying extra hardware. If you run tunnels and plan on going to the WTC sometime then you will probably get one to. Can't run just any esc in the spec class there.

/B

 

[LarryConrad]

Limit the current you can use, not the equipment. If P class runs any speedo and motor on 4s run the same electronics on 3s or 2s to create a less powerful "spec" class.

 

[Doug Smock]

Like Bill mentioned the AQ control is a no brainer. There is nothing to set, adjust, or get a guy in trouble. It is plug and play and you can get the motor, ESC, and water jacket for just over $160.00.

Another advantage to limiting the ESC is that it will go a long way to keep the 2300 and 2600 kv look alikes out of the picture. How are you guys going to tech these boats?

Is a guy going to dismantle his Limited boat to get his feet wet in, or run another class? I'm asking because I haven't seen that.

"The motor is the fuse". This has been said many times and I always say the same thing. If done properly you don't need $60.00 fuses. If you want the performance of a P boat then build one, promote that class instead.

Four years we have been running these classes with the PB and AQ controls and we haven't had a single failure. You were at our GP last Nov. did our boats seem like they were lacking performance? It didn't keep the competition away either, and it was cold as, well you remember. :lol:

You guys need to do what you think is best for you. I am simply trying to show the other side of the ESC thing.

I'm sure you know guys that will run their engines a bit lean to get a few more RPM, and of course they are rebuilding before the guy that stays a bit on the rich side. It is the same thing here with the FE equipment.

That's all for me fellas.

Good luck, keep up the good work, and I hope to see you in the cotton field!

Doug

[email protected] 404-308-4011

PS No the Deans have to go. lol

 

[Kris Flynn]

What ever you do, there is going to be some RAT who tries to cheat or 'bend' the rules. Who are they kidding? They are ruining it for themselves, I know I could not live with myself knowing I cheated just to win a model boat race. I know some are different, but....

 

[jayt]

Limit the current you can use, not the equipment. If P class runs any speedo and motor on 4s run the same electronics on 3s or 2s to create a less powerful "spec" class.

I'm not getting into the ESC debate, I run NAMBA rules. B)

But to the above post -

First off current is amps, not voltage. You will build amps by using bigger and bigger props until something blows regardless of voltage. Second, the AQ and PB ESCs will not run on 3S or 2S, 4S is minimum. And the boats would be awfully slow on 2S even if the ESCs did work.....

.

 

[LarryConrad]

Limit the current you can use, not the equipment. If P class runs any speedo and motor on 4s run the same electronics on 3s or 2s to create a less powerful "spec" class.

I'm not getting into the ESC debate, I run NAMBA rules. B)

But to the above post -

First off current is amps, not voltage. You will build amps by using bigger and bigger props until something blows regardless of voltage. Second, the AQ and PB ESCs will not run on 3S or 2S, 4S is minimum. And the boats would be awfully slow on 2S even if the ESCs did work.....

Sorry, I used the wrong terminology,electricity is current to me. I meant limit the voltage, I am not familiar with the speed controllers used in boats, or their limitations. several of the ones I use in cars will operate on 2s to 6s , and many will run on 1s if you use a receiver pack to power the steering servo. The touring car class at the local carpet track is running a point series on rubber tires, 17.5 brushless motor on 2s with any speed controller that can't advance the motor timing,(blinky mode for ROAR stock classes) The spec vintage class is running the same motor and speed controller limitations on 1s. The spec vintage cars are about a second slower a lap, not over powered, and the racing is much closer.I just thought the same principal could also be applied to boats. I run IMPBA and all my boats at this time are Nitro, but my cars are all brushless electric.

.

 

[Tim leyde]

To answer my question is it corret to say:

IMPBA you can use any ESC?

NAMBA you have to use a PB/AQ ESC?

I only have one thing to say I belive we as racers should be able to use any ESC if you burn it up, live and learn. Nitro motors are not no brainers.

Not everybody wants to buy the AQ combo for $160 when you can spend $110 to do the same thing!

Just my .02cents

Tim