Bad Bad outing today!!

[ken turmon]

Today turned out to be a one of those days my mother warned me about. Went out to enjoy a day of running boats only to have one disaster after another.

First I launched my kneeler. It was going fine for a couple seconds and then I lost radio contact. It raced toward the other side of the river and just before it go to the other side it flipped badly and tore the hatch off. It landed upside down and sadly left two lipo packs in the bottom of the river. I have no idea what happened.

Then I launched my tunnel, was finally working perfectly after a long road of dialing it in and then my brand new esc went POP and blew its gutts out all over the inside of the boat. Sadly i think i over propped it and caused the failure. Can you say slow learner...doh!

 

[hugh hargett]

Did you put that big ole prather on there? We told you not to do that . What happended with the radio? wat kind of esc did you have? Some laquer thinner might help you clean up all the smoke.If its a wooden hull just sand the smoke away and reclear it. If it was the t-600 that blew the esc know one thing. Its a multipole outrunner which is already more work on an esc than say a 2 pole . A 42 to 47mm prop should have you competing quite well with the comp. x6 series or M series. About esc's I have a can of cheap chinas I went through. Not country bashing but heres an example: I had a skywing 100 and 200 the only difference is they stacked 3 100 motor bridges to one logic OK. BUT when i look at the caps they have less suplimentary stiffning caps on the 200 :huh: . Why the only reason I could come up with is they didnt want to have to re-design the boards to accomodate more of the same size caps as they had on the 100 so they just slapped what would fit - 5 270uf caps.

Look at the math

2 1100 uf's on the 100 = 2200uf

5 270's on the 200 1350uf

Say what you want but thats cheap. Why would you have less stiffening caps on an esc you expect more work out of ???????? :wacko:

what were the results? a charred hull.

I pulled as much as 340 amps through my castle 200 and its here sitiing in my boat smiling at me . It seems the turnigy line of chinas are the only ones you cant trust with some degree of reliability or rate you chinas in terms of max not continuous. If it says 200 you may safely runn 100 through it. Reminds me of the flea market and pyramid car amps - 20 dollar for 2000 watts yeah right!

Another thing about escs stacking bridges is great the only problem is you cant really cool al the bridges in that configuration just the one closest to the water plate. That design is bound to have issues. Short cuts lead to short runs!!!!!!! BEN at fightercat has the best lower cost esc going right now. Im my opinion . Swordfish an turnigy are or the same company Heifei. Suppo may be who manufactures Bens units. Instead of stacking they select the proper fet from the get go. Just a more solid and robust design. You dont see schulze stacking either one plane design with heavy copper.

Ben has something not a$$$$$$ much as the schulze but something that can handle that t-600 on a larger prop.That motor can easily pull over 200 amps on a prop large enuf. Im affraid your prather brought the weasel out of the hole.

Lets remember what a t-600 really is - a .90 equivalent for choppers

She can pull over 5000 watts and has. 25.2 volts x 200amps = 5040 watts dont sleep on her.

 

[hugh hargett]

Short life of a skywing on a t600 and a 452 . the video stooped coz the esc stopped :blink: !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwpzb0lbvH4

My castle esc eats the 452. In the same boat/setup tug boat in the video but the point was to show the china fail under the t600

 

[HTV Boats]

Ken what was your setup on your tunnel? Motor,cells,esc and prop? We have all shot ourselves in the foot but it is nice to know these things to prevent future ill events.

Mic

 

[hugh hargett]

Amen! I did get one good thing out of the jars of burn up chinas. There a good source for voltage regulators if you wanna build a good bec LOL! they have LM2596S voltage regulators in them.

 

[ken turmon]

Well id did use the prather but NOT on the kneeler. It was the same prop i was using before and a swordfish 200a esc. However my reciever was very close to the esc and I was not using a sep bec so Im wondering if there was some noise that caused the loss of radio contact..??

I put the prather on the tunnel. Its a FG hotshot 45 with a turnigy 4074 on it. I was thinking that since the hs is a fairly light hull it wasnt working as hard but again I was in a rush to get the new esc installed last night and forgot to use a sep bec which I know is a no no on 6s so when I put the bigger prop on I did not remember this and hence was really straining the esc. I have tried a few cheaper esc's and of course it has been costly in the end so I know now i am wasting time and money with them.

I opend the swordfish and dried it out and sprayed it with water remover. I'm hoping that when the lipo fell out it happend before the esc got wet and shorted.

LESSONS LEARNED.... I must save some pennies and get a data logger...its now a must do!!

I wont bother with the cheaper esc's any more for obvious reasons. Better to leave a boat parked for a while than have it catching on fire.

I wont be rushing to get things done the night before I'm going to run. If they aren't ready before hand they stay home!!

I hope Ben gets his issues sorted out and gets back on line soon. I will def be needing some stuff from him in the future. I have a FF.45 rigger i was hoping to test this yr but it will likely have to wait till the spring.

 

[hugh hargett]

Ben offline? HUH :huh: I got an account with them didnt notice that. You may be able to score one of his esc's on OSE store. What Kv is the leo and please put that prather away!!!!!. Try a prop in the range HTV told you . Hes a top tunnel guy thats actually out there racing. I myself believe that a 645 is more than enough for a tunnel but a m series is almost like a detoungued x series so it gotta be the way to go to get a bigger prop with less amperage draw.

Out of your two motors lets just step away from a 52mm prather at this time. Lets get you turning without hooking and running consitently with a smaller prop before anything else. Now a t-180 should be fine . If you insist on bigger prop get the largest amperage esc your coin can hack and lets go with a m or x series prop in the 45mm range. Also while your on the bench test your lower units for friction. They could be a culprit in this awful crime :lol: . No way to get your batteries? If you can retrieve them they may still work they can be out there too long though. If your going to race invest your time in that kneeler hull.

 

[ken turmon]

He he..yes the prather will come off the tunnel..For now ...lol. Both my tunnel and kneeler are now turning and handling fine. I was having some issues with the kneeler when It got into the weeds but if i stay clear it turns very well. I did a lot of work to the bottom of the tunnel to get it up to snuff. My initial handling problems were do to a bad linkage arangement and have since been resolved.

I have been looking at some data logging stuff but seems everything is rated for 150 amps max. No good in my case. What do I need for a 6s setup.

Sadly the batteries went into some fairly deep water and would need a trained scuba diver to get them.

 

[hugh hargett]

If you wait until you can buy the right esc logging will be there for you. Guys are using eagle tree as a add on.

 

[ken turmon]

I'd rather have a unit i can use in all my boats so the eagle tree would be my choice. Can you run two in parallel for 300 amps?

 

[hugh hargett]

AHH thats a **** good question. Ask Jim Caldwell he runs them I dont but I know he pulls more than 150 amps.

 

[HTV Boats]

Ken,

If you get a little more specific as to what the KV was on the 4074 and was the big prop the 235 Prather? A data logger is nice but running one or 2 laps and comming straight in and check motor,esc & battery temps will give you an idea if your going south. Then run 3-4 laps and do the same. If heat builds you have a problem. The only Turnigy 4074 I see listed is 2000KV. Not a 6S motor for any length of time with anything above a m440. A 235 on that setup and you don't need a dataloger or even a stopwatch. Count backwards from 10 and you'll see smoke soon enough. You can go to a 400amp contoller and you'll just burn the wires or the motor. My swordfish 200 has run several races and quite a bit of testing with a 1520/1600kv Castle and not flinched. A 545 gives me all the boat cam handle. We have pushed it withstiffer than 450's for 2 SAW passes only It is really tempting to prop up but anything over a 47mm diameter witk kv's over 1400 needs to be watched closely. If you don't start out with small props and work your way up a datalogger has no use cause you can't download a crispy black one.

Mic

 

[ken turmon]

lol...too funny. Mic the 4074 is a 1400 kv. I have used it in my wild thing and with smaller props on my tunnel as well. Wasnt a first run or anything. So far i have not burned up anything. I did look at the props you mentioned. The prather is quite a bit more than those so yes it was too much. It seems that its safer to some degree to gradually add more pitch but keep the dia smaller. I guess I will learn the art of tweeking props. What size tunnels do you run. Mine is a 45 size and while smaller props work i have not been totally happy with the speeds. I guess I have gotten a bit lazy when it comes to short runs and checking temps. I used to do it but have been slacking off. There really are no short cuts in this hobby. I have a brand new t180 on hand. It looks like its going to be a ***** to fit it in the narrow radio box but i'll see what I can come up with.

 

[MarkTanski]

Ken I can show you how to run higher amperages on an eagletree 150 if you get one.

One might still be for sale on OSE with the GPS module, was last week at least.

 

[ken turmon]

Ok well I bit the bullet and ordered an eagle tree data logger. Hopefully this will save me some dinaro's down the road.

 

[MarkTanski]

You'll love it! I downloaded my data from today, you can watch the amp draws go down as I raised the strut running that prop of yours I borrowed. LOL boat got faster and amp draw went down. 3/32 of an inch and the amp draw went down by 10 amps.

RPM figures were all screwed up though, logger was calibrated for a 4 pole motor, was running a 6 poler today.

 

[Jim Caldwell]

http://forums.offshoreelectrics.com/showthread.php?33971-Eagletree-150-amp-to-300-amps-in-15-minutes

Eagle 15 min mod to get up to 372 amp readings.

 

[ken turmon]

Thanks for the link Jim. This should save me a lot of grief. On another note I just realized that yesterday was my first run using the swordfish and I had completely forgotten to plug the program card in and enter the correct settings. I have no clue what settings it was operating at. Man what a bone headed move. I will soooo never be scrambling to get boats ready the night before again.

 

[hugh hargett]

I told you Jim had a good grasp on that eagle tree. Innovative and thoughtful guy if you ask me.He has always given me great advice.

 

[hugh hargett]

I told you Jim had a good grasp on that eagle tree. Innovative and thoughtful guy if you ask me.He has always given me great advice.

You'll love it! I downloaded my data from today, you can watch the amp draws go down as I raised the strut running that prop of yours I borrowed. LOL boat got faster and amp draw went down. 3/32 of an inch and the amp draw went down by 10 amps.

RPM figures were all screwed up though, logger was calibrated for a 4 pole motor, was running a 6 poler today.

could the rpm be two thirds of what it says maybe? I made that error and had 2 pole when it was four pole so i just half-ed the readings and that looked to be correct. It was reading 70000 rpm so 35000 looked right.