.21, the big three

[Speed Jr.]

Ive seen Ron's 20 boats over the last 8 years and I must say, having won US-1 a few times and Hydro Masters a few times and getting the oval record with his weekend race boat is quite impressive. Over the years he has changed boats, radios, pipes, needles, etc. One thing remains- A Geraghty Novarossi. This doesnt mean that because Ron Zaker runs a NR means its the best, it just means that he see's no reason to change cause theres nothing better in his eyes. I have 2 Geraghty .21's sittin around. Needless to say, I wont be shopping for any CMB's or Mac's anytime soon. Again, its personal preference. If you really want a strait front exhaust, then your either CMB or Mac, well I guess K&B too. The 100's of world championships Novarossi/RB Concepts car engine technology and feedback do rub off on their marine line as well. Its personal preference, to some its brand loyalty. Im not looking for a convenient engine to fit in my boat, Im gunna look for an engine that I trust can throw a competitive prop up on the pipe everytime, consistantly, for years. Again, like you guys have been saying, its set up. I prefer torque, some prefer RPM. I have heard this said a few times, as if NR dont turn the RPM's that Mac's do? So when Ron's new "secret weopon" rigger is runnin at spring nats this year, get an RPM reading then make your assumption. I dont think a Geraghty NR turns any less RPM's than a modified Mac. "Torque is faster in and out of the turns, this is where the race is won. Id take an engine with more torque over and engine with a few more RPM's, especially if you run lane one." A great man told me this years ago, Gary Pruesse, who I know isnt as big of a benchmark anymore, but in RC boating history is a landmark. So Gary wont run lane one with his 80 mph 20 hawk anymore because he isnt as aggressive of a driver as he once was, but it makes sense. PS, its powered by a Novarossi.

Again, Just a reference

Larry

 

[Ron Olson]

I've had a Nova Rossi and it was a great engine until the rod broke. I'm still not sure if it was a rod failure as it looked like the sleeve warped. Needing an engine quick as racing season was only a couple of weeks away, I called Gary Preusse to see what he had. He could have gotten me a MAC but made me a Helluva deal that I couldn't turn down on the Rossi Niagara. The engine takes a while to get broken in and the pipe needs to be run a bit longer than normal but I could see it going faster every tankful. I was swinging props that Gary said that it shouldn't but it did rather well. I didn't like the Rossi pipe as I tried a few and found the Irwin to work best on it. I had to use a Nova Rossi header to get the pipe closer to the engine, a tight fit but it's on there. Nothing against any others mentioned in here as I wouldn't hesitate to buy any of them. The CMB Green-head would be lower on my list though simply because of the carb.

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

h34r: Tell me about Rossi Piranha 3.5cc (.21) I heard that the top of it is very powerful (3hp/42000rpm) Nobody beat this engine. Is that fact? :huh:

 

[Speed Jr.]

Im not sure but (3hp/42000rpm) is some pretty sweet numbers!

Anyone try one of these?

Larry

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

h34r: Tell me about Rossi Piranha 3.5cc (.21) I heard that the top of it is very powerful (3hp/42000rpm) Nobody beat this engine. Is that fact? :huh:

Look at picture of Rossi Engine

 

[Ron Olson]

Allan, that's the Marinello (?) version, not really that much difference between that one and the Niagara. The Niagara has a black case and gold head. When we've had it dialed in it has done very well against the other engines. My son races the boat and at one race lapped all but one boat and only because he wasn't running it WOT. I feel that the engine is highly underrated. John Finch did an article on it a few years back but I don't think that at the time that he put enough run time into it to see it's full potential as he probably had a deadline to meet. Jim Irwin was running some and told me that he felt that the engine was still being broken in even though it had 2 gallons of fuel through it! Mine is about due for some new bearings but I've had it for around 4 years now.

 

[ALLAN YUEN]

Allan, that's the Marinello (?) version, not really that much difference between that one and the Niagara. The Niagara has a black case and gold head. When we've had it dialed in it has done very well against the other engines. My son races the boat and at one race lapped all but one boat and only because he wasn't running it WOT. I feel that the engine is highly underrated. John Finch did an article on it a few years back but I don't think that at the time that he put enough run time into it to see it's full potential as he probably had a deadline to meet. Jim Irwin was running some and told me that he felt that the engine was still being broken in even though it had 2 gallons of fuel through it! Mine is about due for some new bearings but I've had it for around 4 years now.

h34r: One of top Piranha , second Marinello(2.6HP/ 40,000RPM) Anyone try one of Piranha 21?? :unsure:

 

[AndyBrown]

Im not sure but (3hp/42000rpm) is some pretty sweet numbers!

Anyone try one of these?

Larry

3 hp/42,000rpm :lol: :lol: .......and I thought only car racers could be bought with "sweet numbers".

Printed paper is Cheap! Bring that 3hp/42,000 to the boat race.

BTW- Larry, I thought you just said that you were a "Torque" guy.

Also, just because an engine will pull one prop size bigger, such as 1450 compared to 1445, does NOT mean that the engine will come out of the corner quicker. It only means the engine is making it's power at a lower rpm range. How it accellerates has nothing to do with the size prop it can pull or the rpm range that it works in. B)

 

[Speed Jr.]

3 hp/42,000rpm :lol: :lol: .......and I thought only car racers could be bought we "sweet numbers".

Printed paper is Cheap! Bring that 3hp/42,000 to the boat race.

BTW- Larry, I thought you just said that you were a "Torque" guy.

Who got bought Andy? :huh:

Are those not pretty sweet numbers? When did I say that the engine could actually do it? All I said were they are pretty sweet NUMBERS. Its nice to know a guy who is going to market some of his own engines towards car racers thinks they can be bought by inflated numbers. Are you insuing that car racers arent as educated? Even if you feel this way, its not a good idea to publicly announce it. Come on Andy, let engines speak for themselves. And being "bought"? Im not trying to sell anything. If someone puts up a post asking for others opinioins, then you know whats going to happen? Your going to get an OPINION. Its kinda disheartening to when such an accomplished boater is so easy to cut down others. I never once made a reference to you about your engines Andy, it funny how I talk about "experimental" and everyone knows what Im talking about. So is there truth to it? Nope, its OPINION. I still never said what I was refering too. Lets just leave it at the pond.

Larry Jr.

 

[Jerry Wyss]

You Definetly have to watch what you say around here,, there's "gator's"

everywhere just waitin' to bite'chu,,and I've been "bittin'" by the Biggest :lol:

 

[anthony_marquart]

I do think that the average car racer is less educated on his engine than the average boat racer. When I tell the car guys around here that I run 60% nitro in my TZ12, the same engine they have in a car, they either think I'm lieing or that I'm a total idiot. Not to say that all car racers don't know their engines,.. it's just what I have noticed around here.

 

[AndyBrown]

3 hp/42,000rpm :lol: :lol: .......and I thought only car racers could be bought we "sweet numbers".

Printed paper is Cheap! Bring that 3hp/42,000 to the boat race.

BTW- Larry, I thought you just said that you were a "Torque" guy.

Who got bought Andy? :huh:

Are those not pretty sweet numbers? When did I say that the engine could actually do it? All I said were they are pretty sweet NUMBERS. Its nice to know a guy who is going to market some of his own engines towards car racers thinks they can be bought by inflated numbers. Are you insuing that car racers arent as educated? Even if you feel this way, its not a good idea to publicly announce it. Come on Andy, let engines speak for themselves. And being "bought"? Im not trying to sell anything. If someone puts up a post asking for others opinioins, then you know whats going to happen? Your going to get an OPINION. Its kinda disheartening to when such an accomplished boater is so easy to cut down others. I never once made a reference to you about your engines Andy, it funny how I talk about "experimental" and everyone knows what Im talking about. So is there truth to it? Nope, its OPINION. I still never said what I was refering too. Lets just leave it at the pond.

Larry Jr.

Larry,

Why can't you say what you mean?

When you say words like manufactuer and experimentel together while your post is refering to only two manufactures, you are leaving the door open to being misuderstood.

You said "sweet numbers". If you didn't think they were right, why not say so?

It's fine that you like NRossi. They are great motors, I agree with that. Why couldn't you just say what you liked about NRossi and leave it at that?

You had to add what you didn't like about MAC/CMB based on your one personal experiance and what you may have heard from someone. When you did that you opened yourself for a little defensive opposition.

That was your OPINION. That's good! I just stated some Facts about MAC. And MAC engines do speak for themselves.

I do not and have not advertised specific power numbers for my car engines. Most car engine manufactures do print power numbers.

When I started selling car engines I learned real fast that most car racers will not buy an engine unless you can tell them some power numbers. Needless to say I missed many car engine sales because I did not tell people "what they wanted to hear". I still don't, and never will.

 

[Ron Olson]

What Andy stated is too true in the world of R/C anything. Look at the garbage being sold on eBay, those junk Chinese or wherever boats that they're trying to say that hit 50-65 MPH. We know better. Traxxas says their engines will turn 50,000 RPM. Really? Show me! Too many manufacturers are fudging the numbers with absolutely no proof. Those that have outrageous claims can't or don't have a thing to back it up with. The proof for us is to take them to a sanctioned SAW event to have them officially clocked. This can give us several things in which to make the judgement, the engine, pipe, prop, hull, elevation, temp plus a host of other factors that can be had.

Too many R/C 4-wheel owners don't know squat about really getting the most out of their vehicles. They think that 30% nitro is a lot and most haven't done anything more than bolt on parts plus have never tried adjusting tuned pipes.

MAC engines do speak for themselves as evidenced by the amount of records that they hold. I have an idea that the A/A engines will be speaking much louder.

 

[Speed Jr.]

You Definetly have to watch what you say around here,, there's "gator's"

everywhere just waitin' to bite'chu,,and I've been "bittin'" by the Biggest :lol:

Well Said Jerry

Im done on this issue, for what its worth, my father likes his mac 21 in his seaducer a lot.

 

[AWaddle322]

Andy,

I am needing a couple of pistons and sleeves for my mac 21's and various other parts (head buttons, etc.). are they available?

Sincerely,

Allen Waddle

 

[Jerry Wyss]

It's important to remember that the "on road" car engines have to deal

with the least amount of surface friction And they have a clutch that is

on it's own "tunable" and they have tranny's too.

It's much easier for them to attain the higher rpm range than the same

engine dealing with the friction of water and a serious constant load that

water has on a prop.

Most of the numbers that end up with some brands of car engines are

somewhat elevated for practical use and I think most serious RC'ers know that.

On a side note, the Thunder Tiger 21 OB states "Practical rpm 4,000 to 38,000"

If you want, I'll sell you one,,,

Ok, I'm done too

 

[Marty Davis]

I've been wondering the same thing Brian. I've been building a Pay-N-Pak Dumas kit & wondering how to power it. I have a nice K/B, I think I'll start there. But what really intrigues me are air cooled car motors. Mr. Geraghty has said many times that we run our water cooled engines to cool. These things are screaming fast & run very hot. You can also get larger displacements IE .28. Is that too large for the B class? I thought Bob Kensill was running a larger CC outboard in the 3.5 class????? Just my .02.

Joe:

Good thinking...

BUT, the air cooled engines will bog in the turns when you load them a lot. As long as you are unloaded they are fine. Even a little water cooling will eliminate this bogging.

Marty Davis

Brian, what about the OS .21. This looks like an awesome engine, of course, haven't heard much about them. They're right up there in price w/ the rest of them though. OS has always treated me well. I know others feel differently, but I can't help thinking this would be a good motor.

Rich

Rich:

I ran the OS Engines for several years with good success. The only problem with them is that the liner/piston fit wears out very quickly and that takes away a lot of the torque. They are awesome in quality and you can interchange parts and know that they are exactly the same.

Marty Davis

EXPERIMENT!!!!!! LOL

The MAC 21 came out in May 2001 and proceeded to place 1st, 2nd and 3rd two months later at the 2001 IMPBA Internats in 21 Hydro and Won US-1 in that class too. MAC 21 won SAW and Oval too!

Novarossi came out in 1987 and backed by the great driving ability of Ron Zaker Jr. managed to pull off a 4th place finish at the same race.

MAC 21 holds most of the NAMBA and IMPBA records.

With all due respect, the Novarossi is a great engine.

Just hang in there. The 2006 Experiment(s) will Blow Your Mind. B)

Andy:

I remember that very well!

Marty Davis

I am in the market for a .21 for my sport20.

I like the front exhaust (MAC and CMB) more than the Nova Rossi's rear exhaust. With the MAC not available, what are the comparisions between the CMB and the Nova Rossi? Both reliable? Good top and bottom end? Any help would be appreciated. The boat will be in the 4.5 to 5 lb range.

thanks, Brian

Brian:

Knowing you very well, I realize that you will want the best engine in terms of performance rather than durability.

You probably should state how you will use the engine. Will you run it stock, will you buy a modified engine, how much nitro, etc, etc.

If you are looking for the fastest engine that is available, it is like chasing a shadow. With your driving ability, and of the engines mentioned will serve you well. Just be meticulous in your setup and I would bet that you will be the one to beat.

Marty Davis

 

[AndyBrown]

Andy,

I am needing a couple of pistons and sleeves for my mac 21's and various other parts (head buttons, etc.). are they available?

Sincerely,

Allen Waddle

Allen,

We are about 3 weeks from finally having P/L's and heads for the MAC 21.

Rods, bearings, wrist pins, circlips, head shims are in stock.

 

[Joe_Knesek]

The bottom line is that you will not go wrong with either a MAC or Nova Rossi. I have one Speedmaster with an Andy Brown modified MAC and another with an Orlic modified Nova Rossi and they run nearly identical speeds. By the time I had all the work done they cost about the same as well. It's all in the setup.

 

[Brian Blazer]

Thanks for all of the replies. After much thought, I am going to go with the new MAC. Now the hard part...anxiously waiting. Andy has always been there for me and backs his products 110%. Hopefully I will be able to use it for the next time trials in April

Thanks guys,

Brian