Was Donald Trump right? Is the mainstream media really "Fake News"?

[Timbo Whalen]

I did a paper on this way back in the day in my senior year of high school, LBJ and his cronies made millions with their investments into the military/industrial complex. Listen to JFK's last speech (easy to find and why they killed him) as he was going to expose them all. JFK's body wasn't even cold yet when LBJ went to all in on Vietnam after being sworn in on Air Force One. Interestingly enough it was the CIA who created the term "conspiracy theory" to counter all the people questioning the joke of the Warren report on the assassination. In 1978 a special House committee concluded on the basis of the evidence available that JFK was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy but documents were still sealed from the public. The limit ran out and a large number of people requested the documents under the FOIA but Biden refused to release the most important documents citing needs to "protect against identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations and law enforcement". Everyone involved from back then is dead, but it's not about the people, it's about the revealing the then and still ongoing corruption of current agencies involved........

Yep, the CIA testimony at the Warren testimony brought us the term 'conspiracy theory' in the JFK situation.
However, that's not where the term originated....

Recorded use of the phrase “conspiracy theory” dates back to at least 1863, and it was notably invoked in reports following the 1881 shooting of then-President James A. Garfield, more than 60 years before the CIA was established. An academic review of the digital library JSTOR found the term “conspiracy theorist” had been published at least in the year before Kennedy’s death....

Following the National Archives’ release in Dec 2022 of an additional 12,879 documents related to Kennedy’s death, interest in longstanding myths about the president’s 1963 shooting has resurged on social media. Among these myths is what some scholars have called a "meta conspiracy theory" — the belief that the CIA, as part of an unproven coverup, coined the term “conspiracy theory” to discredit people who accused the CIA of orchestrating Kennedy’s killing.

There are many opinions sited all over the place as to what really happened in the JFK affair. Fingers have been pointed at many actors, yet none can be proven by direct fact. Without doubt, it does appear to have an elaborate construct.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever know how the whole thing was engineered.
Too much time has passed, too many key actors are dead, and rest assured- too many smoking guns have been destroyed.

What is interesting is that LBJ appointed every sitting member of the Warren Commission. Is it possible these members had been briefed, in advance, of a plot to eliminate JFK?.... absolutely!

And Pres. Eisenhower warned in a final speech of a monster on the horizon known as the Military Industrial Complex.

Let's just say that had JFK been able to achieve his goals regarding the CIA, Vietnam, the US Treasury Dept, and surely other areas, the US would be in an entirely different position than it finds itself today.

If you want to learn more, chase down the blue highlighted links in item 3 of references below.

Ref-
1)
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1c.html

2) https://www.semanticscholar.org/pap...eaux/54dd281f495340b18b9fecf3485cb209514ffdf0

3)
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-conspiracy-theory-jfk-941578119864

 

[Timbo Whalen]

I did a paper on this way back in the day in my senior year of high school, LBJ and his cronies made millions with their investments into the military/industrial complex. Listen to JFK's last speech (easy to find and why they killed him) as he was going to expose them all. JFK's body wasn't even cold yet when LBJ went to all in on Vietnam after being sworn in on Air Force One. Interestingly enough it was the CIA who created the term "conspiracy theory" to counter all the people questioning the joke of the Warren report on the assassination. In 1978 a special House committee concluded on the basis of the evidence available that JFK was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy but documents were still sealed from the public. The limit ran out and a large number of people requested the documents under the FOIA but Biden refused to release the most important documents citing needs to "protect against identifiable harm to the military defense, intelligence operations and law enforcement". Everyone involved from back then is dead, but it's not about the people, it's about the revealing the then and still ongoing corruption of current agencies involved........

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2...-about-jfk-heres-why-that-might-be-a-problem/

 

[Don Ferrette]

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2...-about-jfk-heres-why-that-might-be-a-problem/

One person's opinion with nothing to back it up. And why if all the players involved are now dead why continue to seal the over 1,500 pages of info?? Simple, it will incriminate the CIA and FBI, Biden's "reason" for doing so spells it out. Again in 1978 a congressional committee admitted to the probability of multiple shooters and a conspiracy to kill JFK but info was still tightly sealed away from general public access. The Warren report was a joke and yes LBJ appointed every member of said commission, how convenient. Furthermore, Oswald had a much clearer shot earlier but combined with his position and the reported (then squashed) two other gun muzzle flashes seen by witnesses created the perfect triangulated kill zone. But you are correct, until the rest is released we will never know the full story.................... which is exactly what they want.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

One person's opinion with nothing to back it up. And why if all the players involved are now dead why continue to seal the over 1,500 pages of info?? Simple, it will incriminate the CIA and FBI, Biden's "reason" for doing so spells it out. Again in 1978 a congressional committee admitted to the probability of multiple shooters and a conspiracy to kill JFK but info was still tightly sealed away from general public access. The Warren report was a joke and yes LBJ appointed every member of said commission, how convenient. Furthermore, Oswald had a much clearer shot earlier but combined with his position and the reported (then squashed) two other gun muzzle flashes seen by witnesses created the perfect triangulated kill zone. But you are correct, until the rest is released we will never know the full story.................... which is exactly what they want.

Well, partly true....look at his credentials.
That's what this whole subject is about- people's opinions. NO one in civil society is going to get anywhere near the FACTS.
The Mafia did it, the CIA did it, on and on.

As we've stated before, we believe the CIA architected the whole deal (opinion)....the chain of events seem to indicate that.
It's complicated. Oswald could've, perhaps, blown the lid off of it. His death was scheduled in advance and executed after his part was fulfilled.

Ballistics in conjunction with the Zapruder film rule Oswald out as JFK's assassin. JFK's fatal head wound came from the DIRECTION of the grassy knoll-ballistics do not lie.Did Oswald place bullets into the limo?....more than likely-again, indicative of ballistics. The whole deal, from inception, was extremely complicated. Many, many rabbit holes were constructed.

Something many seem to ignore/forget is JFK was the first Catholic president. Why does that matter?....Joe Kennedy, the Vatican, and the Jesuits. JFK tried to distance himself from Rome.
Takes a few ingredients to bake a cake.

NO citizen will ever solve this. People will opine all they want with little fact. It is what it is. No one in civilian US society has access to what's left of any hardcore, factual data. The most recent stuff released is minor league, redacted doggie treats. Same with the UFO banter.

Truly, I'm somewhat amazed we're all here talking about this, still.

Don, but yeah, can't argue against the CIA, FBI, and NSA angles. Even the media is a propaganda tool of the govt and their alphabet agencies.

 

[Brad Christy]

Yep, the CIA testimony at the Warren testimony brought us the term 'conspiracy theory' in the JFK situation.
However, that's not where the term originated....

Recorded use of the phrase “conspiracy theory” dates back to at least 1863, and it was notably invoked in reports following the 1881 shooting of then-President James A. Garfield, more than 60 years before the CIA was established. An academic review of the digital library JSTOR found the term “conspiracy theorist” had been published at least in the year before Kennedy’s death....

Following the National Archives’ release in Dec 2022 of an additional 12,879 documents related to Kennedy’s death, interest in longstanding myths about the president’s 1963 shooting has resurged on social media. Among these myths is what some scholars have called a "meta conspiracy theory" — the belief that the CIA, as part of an unproven coverup, coined the term “conspiracy theory” to discredit people who accused the CIA of orchestrating Kennedy’s killing.

There are many opinions sited all over the place as to what really happened in the JFK affair. Fingers have been pointed at many actors, yet none can be proven by direct fact. Without doubt, it does appear to have an elaborate construct.

Personally, I don't think we'll ever know how the whole thing was engineered.
Too much time has passed, too many key actors are dead, and rest assured- too many smoking guns have been destroyed.

What is interesting is that LBJ appointed every sitting member of the Warren Commission. Is it possible these members had been briefed, in advance, of a plot to eliminate JFK?.... absolutely!

And Pres. Eisenhower warned in a final speech of a monster on the horizon known as the Military Industrial Complex.

Let's just say that had JFK been able to achieve his goals regarding the CIA, Vietnam, the US Treasury Dept, and surely other areas, the US would be in an entirely different position than it finds itself today.

If you want to learn more, chase down the blue highlighted links in item 3 of references below.

Ref-
1)
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/part-1c.html

2) https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/A-“Conspiracy-Theory”-Conspiracy-A-Mixed-Methods-of-Nera-Leveaux/54dd281f495340b18b9fecf3485cb209514ffdf0

3)
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-conspiracy-theory-jfk-941578119864

Tim,

We agree on most things political but....

Sorry.... Any time I hear/read somebody let "Military Industrial Complex" fall out of their mouth, all I hear in my head is "I really don't understand what is truly at stake." What? Do we think the government is just churning out contract checks for military hardware and development that we don't need? Not a chance. Do they waste a farq-ton of money on crap we don't need? Absolutely. But the naivete required to think that China, Russia and several other countries aren't, at the very least, keeping pace with us is staggering. As in GameOfThrones, "You either win or you die". Without that military expenditure, we'd already be speaking Chinese or Russian, if we were even here at all. As far as I'm concerned, we could add another comma to our military budget and it might get us to halfway to where we need to be.

Thanks. Brad.

 

[Don Ferrette]

Tim,

We agree on most things political but....

Sorry.... Any time I hear/read somebody let "Military Industrial Complex" fall out of their mouth, all I hear in my head is "I really don't understand what is truly at stake." What? Do we think the government is just churning out contract checks for military hardware and development that we don't need? Not a chance. Do they waste a farq-ton of money on crap we don't need? Absolutely. But the naivete required to think that China, Russia and several other countries aren't, at the very least, keeping pace with us is staggering. As in GameOfThrones, "You either win or you die". Without that military expenditure, we'd already be speaking Chinese or Russian, if we were even here at all. As far as I'm concerned, we could add another comma to our military budget and it might get us to halfway to where we need to be.

Thanks. Brad.

Seriously?? The industrial/military complex is and has been a well oiled money making machine with deep back door involvement from our own government for decades. Don't get me wrong a I'm all about a strong, wickedly strong U.S. military but wars make HUGE money. Vietnam had LBJ and his cronies heavily invested in Boeing, Grumman and Lockheed/Martin (companies who each made tons of $$ in that mess) and they stood to lose big if JFK pulled our involvement like he said he was going to do. We could have ended Vietnam long before we finally left but there was much money to be made (example-Boeing made $30 billion, Lockheed almost $60 billion). More recently we had the Gulf wars and tons of money made by Cheney and his buddies invested in Haliburton and many others. I want a U.S. military that can knock the snot out of any of our advisories but sadly our politicians and military suppliers put profit first over everything else including the lives of our soldiers......

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Tim,

We agree on most things political but....

Sorry.... Any time I hear/read somebody let "Military Industrial Complex" fall out of their mouth, all I hear in my head is "I really don't understand what is truly at stake." What? Do we think the government is just churning out contract checks for military hardware and development that we don't need? Not a chance. Do they waste a farq-ton of money on crap we don't need? Absolutely. But the naivete required to think that China, Russia and several other countries aren't, at the very least, keeping pace with us is staggering. As in GameOfThrones, "You either win or you die". Without that military expenditure, we'd already be speaking Chinese or Russian, if we were even here at all. As far as I'm concerned, we could add another comma to our military budget and it might get us to halfway to where we need to be.

Thanks. Brad.

Based on your comment, it appears you don't comprehend what the 'military industrial complex' is about.
We suggest you go listen to Eisenhower's speech in that regard.

The mention of 'China, Russia and several other countries aren't, at the very least, keeping pace with us is staggering' is relevant how?....through espionage?....
In 2023, the United States spent $905.5 billion on defense, which is more than the next 15 countries combined. This includes China, which is second with $219.5 billion, and Russia, which is third.
That's keeping pace???....

NO one knows for certain what the US capability truly is....and we've made no mention about the black budget. The known defense budget is the tip of the iceberg. Fact.

Unbelievable.

 

[Timbo Whalen]

Seriously?? The industrial/military complex is and has been a well oiled money making machine with deep back door involvement from our own government for decades. Don't get me wrong a I'm all about a strong, wickedly strong U.S. military but wars make HUGE money. Vietnam had LBJ and his cronies heavily invested in Boeing, Grumman and Lockheed/Martin (companies who each made tons of $$ in that mess) and they stood to lose big if JFK pulled our involvement like he said he was going to do. We could have ended Vietnam long before we finally left but there was much money to be made (example-Boeing made $30 billion, Lockheed almost $60 billion). More recently we had the Gulf wars and tons of money made by Cheney and his buddies invested in Haliburton and many others. I want a U.S. military that can knock the snot out of any of our advisories but sadly our politicians and military suppliers put profit first over everything else including the lives of our soldiers......

Agreed....the guy quoting me has no clue, obviously.

Anyway, we're out of here....this is getting out of control- in typical fashion....the threads constructing this whole web are too numerous and complicated to come to a detailed conclusion. And no one here has access to the inside pertinent data that MAY connect all the dots. Including those trained at The Farm in Williamsburg, VA and/or Langley, VA....and assigned an MOS of 18F within the Special Forces ranks of the US Army.

Everything with regard to US intelligence, military technical development, RAND Corp., DARPA, is so highly compartmentalized that the people working with one another has no idea what the other is working on....that is all compiled by an elevated tier of analysts.

The JFK affair was of the very same construct.

JFK warned us about 'secret societies'.... Eisenhower warned us about the 'military industrial complex'.

And Brad showed us he hasn't a clue....other than what he's swallowed from the propaganda machine- MSM.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

I'm just glad you three(Tim, Brad and Don) aren't talking about me. I find it refreshing that this thread has stayed relatively civil. I've seen and participated in others that were downright nasty, both in this and other forums. At this point, I'm just waiting to see what happens with the four prosecutors. When push comes to shove, I doubt any of them are going to get a conviction of Donald Trump and they may end up in jail and/or disbarred themselves.

 

[Dave Gilles]

This of course doesnt include NATO spending, israel spending, the $216 billion to ukraine, the intelligence apparatus budget, national guard, federal law enforcement, ally nations, black budgets.

 

[Steve White]

View attachment 325075


This of course doesnt include NATO spending, israel spending, the $216 billion to ukraine, the intelligence apparatus budget, national guard, federal law enforcement, ally nations, black budgets.

My Bullshit Alarm just triggered for some reason. I suppose the "Stockholm International Peace Research Institute" is privy to both Russia and China's full military spending portfolio's? Full transparency on weapons spending right?

Bullshit. I've got bridge for sale, make you a great deal. And some nice Ocean Front property up in Montana that's beautiful this time of year...

 

[Dave Gilles]

My Bullshit Alarm just triggered for some reason. I suppose the "Stockholm International Peace Research Institute" is privy to both Russia and China's full military spending portfolio's? Full transparency on weapons spending right?

Bullshit. I've got bridge for sale, make you a great deal. And some nice Ocean Front property up in Montana that's beautiful this time of year...

Clearly we need to spend more!

how many foreign bases does russia have again?

 

[Steve White]

Clearly we need to spend more!

how many foreign bases does russia have again?

View attachment 325076

Or, perhaps start making comparisons that actually hold some degree of validity and not attempt to push "The Narrative"...

 

[Dave Gilles]

Or, perhaps start making comparisons that actually hold some degree of validity and not attempt to push "The Narrative"...

View attachment 325077

whats personel, often mandatory, have to do with spending of the military industrial complex? You're shifting the goal posts. The data of government spending isn't some vast secret.

 

[Steve White]

^^^ Try this: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/personnel

If you're going to use Spindoctoring tactics and projections, at least make the posts grammatically correct. Proper syntax will also help your pointless arguments - "B"egin sentences with capital letters, etc.

Have a great day!

 

[Hydro Junkie]

IF you guys are going to throw amounts of money, number of overseas bases and number of personnel around, you really need to put it in context:

1. The countries with the most US bases and troops are Japan, Germany and South Korea, two of which were defeated by the US & allies in WWII. South Korea is still officially in a state of war with North Korea. All three were heavily garrisoned to defend them and to contain North Korea, China and the USSR
2. Guam has the fourth highest US base count and sixth highest personnel count due to being the only forward base facility in the central Pacific, after the closing of all the bases in the Philippines.
3. Italy has the fourth highest personnel count and fifth highest US base count due to being defeated in WWII AND, more importantly, it's strategic location in the middle of the Mediterranean Sea. Italy's location makes it an ideal location for interdiction throughout the Med.
4. After those four, the base and personnel counts drop off very quickly. Anyplace with less than 250 personnel I don't count as a base, it's an outpost The two so-called bases in Peru average 23 people each, making them unlikely to hold out until reinforcements could arrive. Same applies to bases in Canada and Saudi Arabia.

Now, let's look at funds spent on the military of the countries:

1. The US spends more on it's military due to R&D costs, wages for both military and civilian personnel, more comprehensive training of personnel, having all equipment manufactured by civilian owned and operated manufacturing & maintenance facilities. It must also be taken into account that the US also is under constant operations around the world to prevent wars, defense of other nations without the funding to do so on their own, support the military of other countries and, to put it bluntly, play the role of the world's police force.
2. China spends around 25% of what the US does due to the country's owning all manufacturing and maintenance sites, doing less training, and only limited "official" operations in and around the country. R&D costs less due to what could be called borrowing tech as well as home research. The CCP also buys tech and equipment from other countries.
3. Russia spend about a third of what China spends. While they do a lot of their own R&D, a lot of their equipment is older and somewhat outdated. Most of their manufacturing and maintenance sites either are or were government owned, they are very limited in the ability to produce equipment that can rival what is manufactured in the west. Equipment limitations have been revealed during the war in Ukraine, as well as training issues in the military.
4. While the UK, Germany, France and Japan all design and manufacture some of their equipment, they and the rest of the countries on the chart above buy from other countries. In addition, all depend on NATO or the US to assist in their defense and, thus, don't need to have as large of military as they otherwise would. This greatly decreases the amount they need to spend to maintain their military forces

 

[Steve White]

^^^ Simply stated - when you're outnumbered you best have the biggest gun.

 

[Dave Gilles]

^^^ Simply stated - when you're outnumbered you best have the biggest gun.

here is a fun list of countries the USA has overthrown in the past 80 years.


My favorite is those "big guns" and how they lost a 20 year long boondoggle to 3rd world goat farmers with 1960's AK-47's in Afghanistan. $6,000,000,000,000 well spent!

on page one I stated how neoconservatism was invented in board rooms at the state department and tel aviv in the 1960's as a manufactured political ideology to serve the interests of the CIA-Israel. This highlights the banality thereof perfectly.

 

[Hydro Junkie]

Korea 1950? Korea was divided by the surrender documents that ended WWII that were signed on the deck of the USS Missouri. In 1950, Communist North Korea, with the backing of China and USSR, invaded South Korea and had only to break the "Pusan Perimeter" to take control of the entire country. With the US leading a UN relief force and the US Army forces that were already in Korea helping the South Koreans in "holding the line" until reinforcements arrived, South Korea was recaptured by the UN/South Korean forces with a cease fire declared in 1953 . An armistice was signed, a DMZ set up that has been maintained to this day, a peace treaty was never written or signed.
Kuwait 1991? Again, IIRC, IRAQ INVADED KUWAIT IN JANUARY 1991!!!
The US, along with several other countries, went in and liberated Kuwait from Saddam Hussein's Iraq in January 1991, something I remember well due to the fact that that offensive action cost me my job a week later.
There you go, TWO INTERVENTIONS THAT WERE REACTIONS TO THE ACTIONS OF OTHER NATIONS

 

[Steve White]

^^^ You forgot to apply the Unknown Factor into his responses.

Notice how he bounces from one topic to another never actually addressing anything - typical Strawman tactics.

He clearly doesn't understand the actual role of the military and the misguided "Politicians" that so often misdirect them.