Mod-VP: Let's look at FIG #5

[Mark Poole ModVP]

I must have missed an edited post or something.

The Mod-VP rules go into a lot of detail and they have to in order to cover the many ways boats can be built for the class. Carl actually pointed out something that I had not taken into account in the original rules and that is a tunnel with the transom inset. The wording needed correcting so that a center pod would not be inset an additional inch forward of an already inset transom. You can inset the trailing edge of a pod up to a maximum of one inch but that measurment is taken from the rear of the sponsons (trailing edges). Nothing else in the rules have changed except that clarification.

To anyone following this thread, Carl has taken it upon himself to take all of my hand drawings and CAD them and you will see very soon how nice this turned out. Carl obviously has much better computer skills than I do and he unselfishly offered to to this. Both of us are working to make sure there are no gray areas or loopholes. With that said, this class is a boat designers delight and for those not into building boats, they will find the class easy to get into also. One thing is for sure, it is about to get a lot more interesting! That is all I am saying for now. Keep an eye on the outboard thread during the week.

 

[HTV Boats]

For the record Andy is an asset to outboard racing anywhere. Not everyone can travel with more important priorities at home. As for D-3, I believe we were the first place to run Mod-VP as a class outside of Charleston. Andy has been instrumental in supporting that effort and maybe a little protective of changes.

Mic

 

[RonShaw]

Mic,

I understand your support of Andy. It just seems as though anytime someone tries to make progress, (using "The Stone Age didn't end because they ran out of stones" signature statement on your posts), instead of using stones to help build the walls, he and a few others on here are constantly throwing them. Go take a look at the Sport B Tunnel rules thread. Nothing good at all was accomplished due to the same type of "stone throwing". We are all adults here and there are many boaters in the organizations that are able and willing to get these grey areas fixed now so there is no room for useless contention at the races.

I think Mark explained it very well above, Carl was simply working with him to get the rules clarified and caught-up to address all tunnel hull ModVP designs, including the very hull Andy runs himself. Thanks guys!!!!....

 

[Andy Greene]

Not to derail this thread any further Ron, I typed and retyped replys to you last night that in the end- I never posted and removed my initial comments because I refuse to step into your trap and argue with you. I have more time and effort into that class in the last 3-4 years than you have in your life- yet I'm clueless- and dont support the class- nice.

I think Mics final sentence (post 22) sums it up best as too my feelings and where my comments came from. That said- and call it what you will- whether for gain or not, I dont believe ANY manufacture should have a say in updated or "clearing up" rules while in the middle of producing the exact portion of the boat the rules pertain too and we speak of. That is in no way saying Carl is doing anything wrong- and it was a grey area that needed to be addressed I guess- but its a conflict of interest no matter how you slice it- period. Lets just say, it wasnt an issue till YOU made it one- once again. Maybe it was his reply at the end of post #9 (My MOD-VP POD just got a lot faster!Thanks MarK)-

Im not gonna sit here and have a pissing match with you about throwing stones- Your as guilty as anyone when it comes to raising conflict and you know it, its when someone says something that goes against the grain of your current agenda- thats when you seem to take issue. You guys clarify the rules ANY way you see fit and I will bring a legal boat that (you cant protest

) and we will see who is clueless, blue water jacket and all...........

Andy

 

[RonShaw]

LOL Andy. Funny right there. So the Stock B rules and clarification of the Mod VP rules, and any other conversation that has anything to do with tunnel rule changes or clarifications are now all my agenda???? LOL. Do you have a sunken bomb shelter in your back yard too????

 

[boatwreck77]

holy edited posts........ I have a big part in the evolution of the class I will be looking at the new hulls for sure... I hope they are 100% legal.. gives me much more incentive to go work on the new hull.. the only question I have for mark and carl is??? the pod has to be permanent right???

 

[Andy Greene]

Nah I can handle whatever you toss out in terms of mine fields- no flame suit or bunker required.

Seems when the time is right- your squarely in the middle of whatever the latest rule change is since your return- you made that bed. not me. In my short 8 years of racing somehow you have provided the ONLY 2 protest I have ever seen.

 

[Andy Greene]

holy edited posts........ I have a big part in the evolution of the class I will be looking at the new hulls for sure... I hope they are 100% legal.. gives me much more incentive to go work on the new hull.. the only question I have for mark and carl is??? the pod has to be permanent right???

Just pick me up on the way north to the WTC or whatever they decide to call it- its time

Its really not NEW rules, just editing on the original verbiage as for as pod measurements- no big deal really, other than the person making the latest and greatest should not be part of the verbiage. THAT is my point, period.

 

[boatwreck77]

if I go... sounds like its going to be a political party event and a protest fest.. ill stay home and play with cars... my last bullet will be there in jj's hands she will do it proud...

 

[rumrunner]

if I go... sounds like its going to be a political party event and a protest fest.. ill stay home and play with cars... my last bullet will be there in jj's hands she will do it proud...

I hope not , guess we can call the new class outlaw 20 modvp.

 

[RonShaw]

Nah I can handle whatever you toss out in terms of mine fields- no flame suit or bunker required.

Seems when the time is right- your squarely in the middle of whatever the latest rule change is since your return- you made that bed. not me. In my short 8 years of racing somehow you have provided the ONLY 2 protest I have ever seen.

That's funny Andy.I have only protested once, and I can not count the number of people since that protest that told me they wanted to do the same for years but did not want to face the wrath of D3. It doesn't bother me...lol
You are wrong on second protest. First, it was not me and second, you did not see it as you were not there. Believe me, there were other protests in the last 8 years in both organizations at races where you were not there. ..lol

 

[Andy Greene]

Nah I can handle whatever you toss out in terms of mine fields- no flame suit or bunker required.

Seems when the time is right- your squarely in the middle of whatever the latest rule change is since your return- you made that bed. not me. In my short 8 years of racing somehow you have provided the ONLY 2 protest I have ever seen.

That's funny Andy.I have only protested once, and I can not count the number of people since that protest that told me they wanted to do the same for years but did not want to face the wrath of D3. It doesn't bother me...lol
You are wrong on second protest. First, it was not me and second, you did not see it as you were not there. Believe me, there were other protests in the last 8 years in both organizations at races where you were not there. ..lol

No need for me to be there to hear what really happened- lets be real here, you think i HAVE NOT TALKED TO ALL THE PLAYERS INVOLVED ?? REALLY . So you didnt actually file the 2nd protest- your camp was squarely in the pouring end of the fuel. I never said there where not more protests, it just seems you like to be in the middle of the ones we hear about.

Face the D-3 wrath- now thats funny , so you stood up and questioned the boat everyone wanted to protest cause you couldnt catch it-and lost- the way you handled that entire situation was childish at best- and frankly I feel this class is headed down that same path with your involvement.

 

[Mike Culhane]

Sure am glad you guys are having fun

!

 

[RonShaw]

Actually Andy, when the NAMBA board that was in place at that time, decided not to uphold the protest for various reasons, I went up to John at the very next race, shook his hand, and congratulated him on the ruling. Funny how you know a lot about nothing.....lol

Come out of your D3 shell once in a while and broaden your horizons a little Andy. There is a big world out here.

 

[Kris Flynn]

What sport rules thread Ron, it got wiped clean along with slot of good info. Same will happen here, just a matter of time.

I thought Carl was just making sure you couldnt put the pod further than an inch in front of the rear of the boat (ride surface). So to me, he was ensuring the class stayed "even" and that no one would go from the transom and have an advantage?

 

[Mark Poole ModVP]

Thanks Kris for a positive response and you are correct, what Carl brought to my attention was the illustration in Fig. 5 was not clear compared to what was in the text on a different page of the rules. The pic showed from the rear of the hull while the text said 'from the transom'.

I don't know how many times I have to write this in a post but Carl is doing NOTHING to give himself or anybody else an advantage. I must have thanked him 3 times already for his computer time making those pages of rules look a lot more sharp and presentable.

As far as a builder/competitor having interest and inquiries about the class, WHO ELSE DO YOU EXPEXT TO DO THIS? I would rather have someone who is going to compete in the class have inquiries AHEAD OF TIME instead of showing up on race day and wondering why his boats are not legal. This has already happened once. Too bad. If someone can read then there is no excuse in showing up with a non conforming boat. The rules a detailed but staright forward.

This is really a shame that this thread has become what it has. We have had great fun with this class with "homegrown" rules. Now that we are trying to sharpen them up and get a solid structure all I hear is crying.

One more thing, I am being asked weather a pod can be removable. Wow that is funny since there have been more than one boat at the races with a changeable pods already. It does not make a crap if the pod is removable except for the IMPBA rule that says no changes can be made to a hull that allow it to race in different classes in the same event. The boats will be checked prior to the race and if you feel the rules are being broken by someone then put up your protest fee and I will get out the gauge again. If the boat that I have on the work bench works like I want it to the pod tunnels are going to find themselves back on a level field anyway.

 

[RonShaw]

Kris,

You are EXACTLY right. Unfortunately, we have a select few that do not like rules whatsoever, and would rather piss and moan anytime rules are mentioned, instead of contributing to make sure all boaters are on the same page in every class. It's well known that I protested John Otto's tunnel two years ago, as it was my first year back in racing in 15 years, and I was astounded that type of configuration was allowed to run in the outboard classes where everyone else was running traditional outboards that bolt onto a vertical transom. I also protested the hull, as the transom was completely removed, and the turntable his engine mounts to, was moved forward of the old transom by several inches. I have only seen that hull win at one race in two years that I attended, so clearly it has no overwhelming advantage, I just don't consider it an outboard. I was ruled against at a later date, shook John's hand, life goes on. I urge anyone that doesn't agree with what they are seeing at a race, to protest instead of walking away and complaining later. That is why the procedure is in place.

Hopefully this thread will get back on track, as everything I see going on with this class, as a positive. Good luck to Carl and Mark as they create final updated ModVP rules. Guys, can you post them for all of us to see once they are completed? Thanks.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

The revised rules (with Mark's exact wording used) are just more understandable and clear than before. Once everyone sees the Mod-VP Revision #2 rules, they will be fine with things as it only refined what Mark originally set out to use as a design guide for the class to start with.

Mark will release the new revision on IW soon. I hope the Mod-VP Class has a good showing at the next race.

-Carl

 

[Tom Foley]

Mod VP Hull at 100 plus MPH .

lots of controversy for a class with only a handful of players . why all the strife ?

 

[Gator 340]

Cause they aint got nothing else to argue about Tom. They have beet that poor sport tunnel discussion to death so now its on to some thing else.