Fail safe units. required for racing?

[spd-props]

I have spent the morning reading all about the accident to Steve Enneper. I do not know him but I am sure he is all that has been said. My wishes for a quick recovery are foremost.

I do not race and I am ignorant to the rules and requirements required for racing.

My question is this:

Is a fail Safe unit required to run in any race?

This $20 item could have shut down the engine the moment it lost its signal and may have saved a great deal of pain and suffering. (personal and financial)

I have always used these on my R/C Cars, and since I have gotten in the boats, The fail safe units come with me. The safety of people and property could be increased by the requirement of this unit.

If this has been a long standing "must have" for racing, I apologize for my ignorance, but I have not read anything about its use being mandatory.

Steve

 

[spd-props]

One thing I forgot to mention, a 2nd unit could be attached to the steering servo to turn the boat at the same time it killed the motor. Make it turn left, and it would end up dead in the center of the coarse.

 

[David Homer]

I do not believe at this time IMPBA has a failsafe requirement. Having said that, IMPBA does require that radios are range checked (observed by the pit boss) before a boat is allowed to race. It is also a requirement that the engine must be able to be shut down via the radio. Follow those two rules, you are reasonably assured accidents can be avoided. No system is 100% fool proof though..

I own a Futaba PCM system with the failsafe functions built in. I program it in, and I check its function before a day's running. If that boat goes out of range, it shuts it down and turns inside the course. I could shut it down by turning off the transmitter if I had to. One caveat though.. No failsafe system will work if the reciever completely loses power (disconnections, faulty switches, etc.)

Obviously there are workarounds... Airplane guys have been using battery back-ups for a while now, some boaters go the two reciever/two battery pack route, I'm sure there are other ideas out there. A lot of the time we are limited by the space available in our radio boxes.

I go back a few years... the president of IMPBA at the time wrote a comment in the newsletter about the radio equipment most of us used... It was like you get what you pay for.. why trust a $1300 boat with a $50 radio?? Those who know me realize I have done this over the years on a very thin budget... but I also believe safety is one thing that should never be compromised. I bought the PCM system, and a second reciever.. just one more layer of protection there..

I'm sure the experienced racers among us follow reasonable precautions as it pertains to radio safety, but for those who might not have thought about this until now, I have some suggestions... Never cut or coil up a reciever antenna.. This drastically affects the tuning and range of the system.. Best if you can vertically run the wire through a tube, and not let it cross itself. Take a voltmeter to your battery packs and make sure each cell is performing as it should. A fully charged nicad should read about 1.5 volts per cell. If you have a 5-cell pack testing under 6 volts, don't use it until you find the cause.. Could be bad cell(s) or a solder connection. Make sure your power connections (including the switch) are free of corrosion.. If your radio takes a dunk, dry it out and don't run again until it passes a range test (years ago I found out that the older Airtronics recievers would lose a majority of its range when they got wet... wouldn't come back either..)

I know I didn't cover everything, but keep in mind that most radio problems start and end with batteries... ask any airplane flyer...lol

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

Fail Safes work with signal loss not power loss. There are a few units on the market that have an onboard power source but they have had poor results in testing.

In the case of this accident power was lost not signal. Fail safes are a good choice if you want to have a back up for radio signal failure. Power loss is a whole different issue.

That said should we require fail safes? will it really help?

In my time in Radio control model boat racing I have found that most radio problems blamed on radio interference are actaully power failure related. I totally agree with testing your batteries and replacing switches regularly. Batteries cause more problems for R/C boaters in my opinion that radio signal issues. Although bad batteries can cause radio signal issues. Water is the next big problem for R/C boaters.

Thats as much as I dare say for now, more information in relation to this accident will be posted in dew time. I thank you for your thoughts and ideas, they are welcome. We need to do our best to makesure our equipment is up to par and most importantly our radio boxes are dry.

Brian Nelsen

IMPBA Vice President

National Safety Director

District 6 Director

 

[Brian Schymik]

I have a question about the failsafes. I too have an expensive Futaba PCM radio that has the failsafe built in. I turned it on and set it up for my boats when I got it. Then some weird things happened. My sport 40 would die in the backstretch in a race. At first I thought that it was motor or many other things, but after almost a whole season of this, I tried something, I turned off the failsafe on the throttle. Guess what ... it ran like it used to. No quitting. So the failsafe was cutting off my throttle. It was only during races ( ie while other radios were on ) I no longer use it. But why did it do this? The batteries were not weak, by the way.

Sorry for hijacking the post.

In general we need to always assess new ideas and new products and keep this a safe sport.

Brian

 

[Joe_Knesek]

One thing I forgot to mention,  a 2nd unit could be attached to the steering servo to turn the boat at the same time it killed the motor. Make it turn left, and it would end up dead in the center of the coarse.

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Races are ran clockwise. Turning left would air it toward the bank and the crowd.

I believe the we have enough rules in place to offer a safe place to race. It's up to us to follow them.

It's been over 10 years since the last serious accident happened. Let's not over-react. Next thing you know we'll be putting throw handles on the back of riggers again.

 

[spd-props]

It is my opinion that accidents lead to innovation. This is observed from real-world racing. For every unfortunate accident, there are equipment and rule changes to make every effort to avoid similar situations from reoccurring. Although it seems to have been many years since the last accident, I do not feel any action made as far as rule changes are concerned could be viewed as overreacting. As I stated in the opening post, I am not a racer, so my suggestions my be way off. It is not my intention to overreact, however I believe that sometimes an opinion from someone who does not know all the details and requirements can sometimes open doors overlooked by those who may Inadvertently over-think situations.

Power-loss. With my hi-torque servos, there seems to be ample power to turn the rudder and throttle arm with properly charged batteries. But with the power off, the servo arms will rotate with minimal resistance. My point is this, if power fails, would it be feasible to use a stiff expansion spring mounted to either the throttle and/or rudder in order to add a non-electric mechanical safety feature that would "kill and turn" the boat?

I do not wish to push anyone’s buttons and perhaps I should mind my business, but sooner or later, with lots of input and understanding, many poor suggestions may yield a good one.

Steve

 

[Propjockey]

would it be feasible to use a stiff expansion spring mounted to either the throttle and/or rudder in order to add a non-electric mechanical safety feature that would "kill and turn" the boat?

Some RTR cars and trucks use a system like this, and they are easy to set up from scratch. Problem is they cause considerable battery strain. Think about this...a throttle servo has very little resistance from the linkage. This means very little power is used. Spring load it and now the servo has to overcome the spring tension...at all times. Big power draw.

 

[Precision Boats]

I have seen several accidents in this hobby in my 6 years of it and none of them are ever good. It is sad to here of and accident like this and I hope Steve continues to get better.

I am with spd -props on that something needs to come from these kind of accidents to try and make something safer or managed better.

I am not saying that anything was done wrong on this accident.They happen when least expected. I am just saying that the people in place for making the decisions and rules in this hobby need to take a good look at it. And hopefully something can come from it to make it all safer for us.

Get well soon Steve.

Tim

 

[Ron Olson]

One thing that I haven't seen yet on the threads is what happened to make the boat lose control? Was it a dying battery pack, a glitch, servo went south?

some of the failsafes out aren't too good for boats. I've seen the car and truck guys griping about how bad some of them are and most of them aren't transmitting the distances that we are.

It doesn't hurt to check everything out before heading to a race as that is the best time to do so.

 

[Roxyflash]

I think a good heavy duty fench around the launch area is something that should be mandated.I know its not a perfect answer and could be a hassel when you bring your boat in but just a thought.Could have a system for the launch and one for bringing in the boats at the end of the run.I think a L shape on either side of launch area with a opening just big enough to get the boat launched.This way there just a small area that the run away boat can enter.

 

[Chris Thomas]

Fences are required around the pit area. At least according to IMPBA rules. I would presume that NAMBA has similar rules concerning this issue, considering they split from the International sanctioning body.

 

[TomMoorehouse]

i would think that a servo manufacrurer could design this in to a servo and do this internally. maybe someone could talk to hitec/futaba/airtronics/jr and have them make a special throttle servo that no matter what it always returns to a closed position when it does not have power?

 

[Brian MAhoney]

i would think that a servo manufacrurer could design this in to a servo and do this internally. maybe someone could talk to hitec/futaba/airtronics/jr and have them make a special throttle servo that no matter what it always returns to a closed position when it does not have power?

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I think that we all rely on servo reverse nowadays, so if its a mechanical system half the users will mount it so that the throttle goes to max on fail. I think an electrical system is likely to be too costly.

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

I have seen several accidents in this hobby in my 6 years of it and none of them are ever good. It is sad to here of and accident like this and I hope Steve continues to get better.
I am with spd -props on that something needs to come from these kind of accidents to try and make something safer or managed better.

I am not saying that anything was done wrong on this accident.They happen when least expected. I am just saying that the people in place for making the decisions and rules in this hobby need to take a good look at it. And hopefully something can come from it to make it all safer for us.

Get well soon Steve.

Tim

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Tim

I agree, this was first and formost an accident. Can we learn from? Yes and we will. The leadership of the IMPBA is having discussions on this daily. We will inform you all when we have something to report. The information is being gathered and looked at in depth.

This accident happened due to a faulty or presumed faulty receiver switch. for those that have not heard that.

Brian

 

[Grimracer]

A few simple thoughts..

We have all done it and most like it this way but.... He was standing in the water when the boat hit him... Sure it easy to get the boat away but it gives me the willies every time i do that.. yet i still do it from time to time.

A launching platform and this would have been avoided.. The boat was not airborne when it him him.. it was running on step..

I think a launch platform with a 45deg under slope to force the boat under the dock would be the best.. You could have a 5" or 6" rail around the top also that angles under to aid in the direction of the hull..

Just a thought and im not trying to fix anything... just an observation.

Grim

 

[shann harrison]

I was at the race in london Ont And my veiw of failsafe units is always run one but make sure it is working prior to every heat that is raced.Teddy was running a failsafe but it did not work at all when he lost his radio why????????????????unknown.This was and is just a freak accident that could not of been controled.You never really think about this kind of thing happening Even myself but when it does it really makes you think.As far as the fenceing goes it is always in place going into the water atleast 8 feet or so I have one built one in to my futaba 7cap computer radio and I always check to make sure it is working properly before any heat As far as makeing it a rule for the rule book why not??? I think if you do yoyur checks before and double check to make sure the unit is working I'm all for it.Just my opionon.Plus hoping Steve well and hope to see him at the northern nats in August. shannon harrison

 

[Don Ferrette]

I was at the race in london Ont And my veiw of failsafe units is always run one but make sure it is working prior to every heat that is raced.Teddy was running a failsafe but it did not work at all when he lost his radio why????????????????unknown.................As far as makeing it a rule for the rule book why not???

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Making failsafes a rule? I don't think so. Failsafes are not a cure all, just because it's working "prior to every heat" doesn't mean squat. Why did his failsafe not work? Simple, he most likely lost battery power in the boat. No power means no radio, no failsafe & no control.

 

[spd-props]

A few simple thoughts..
We have all done it and most like it this way but.... He was standing in the water when the boat hit him... Sure it easy to get the boat away but it gives me the willies every time i do that.. yet i still do it from time to time.

A launching platform and this would have been avoided.. The boat was not airborne when it him him.. it was running on step..

I think a launch platform with a 45deg under slope to force the boat under the dock would be the best.. You could have a 5" or 6" rail around the top also that angles under to aid in the direction of the hull..

Just a thought and im not trying to fix anything... just an observation.

Grim

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This sounds like a interesting idea.

a simple,cost effective, solution to many different possible situations that could occur.

 

[Brian_Nelsen]

I was at the race in london Ont And my veiw of failsafe units is always run one but make sure it is working prior to every heat that is raced.Teddy was running a failsafe but it did not work at all when he lost his radio why????????????????unknown.................As far as makeing it a rule for the rule book why not???

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Making failsafes a rule? I don't think so. Failsafes are not a cure all, just because it's working "prior to every heat" doesn't mean squat. Why did his failsafe not work? Simple, he most likely lost battery power in the boat. No power means no radio, no failsafe & no control.

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Don hit it right on the head. No battery means no radio no failsafe and no control the rest is history.

Brian