Zipkits Outboard Rigger

Discussion in 'Outboard Forum' started by MarkF, Dec 28, 2018.

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  1. Dec 28, 2018 #1

    MarkF

    MarkF

    MarkF

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    I built this one as electric and it's been a while to get it to run right. I removed the bottom ski and found the prop it likes, 1516 3 chopper, and now it scoots along very well. I would say high 60s.

    Anyone else have any experience with this boat?

    Mark

    Outboard Rigger.jpg
     
  2. Dec 28, 2018 #2

    Geraghty

    Geraghty

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    Yes .... The JAE team has experience with this boat......

    What do you mean by "run right"???  Send me a PM with your phone number....... I would love to talk....

    Removing the ski is not the answer......  I believe there is something really wrong with your set up......

    I am thinking you are not doing yourself any favors by running that lower unit on the motor.... 

    Rod Geraghty
     
  3. Dec 28, 2018 #3

    HTV Boats

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    Rod is correct, loose that lower unit and put a ski back on. The rear sponsons only create buoyancy and shouldn't touch while running. My 21 nitro JAE holds the COB-hydro 2 lap record with Jerry Crowther driving a Ron Drake motor. I played with offset rudders left and right on the OS lower. Left out far enough to not disturb water on the leading edge of the prop seemed to turn best. The JAE 1450 cut prop works well and an ABC  1817  does better. Even with standard skeg the OS lower will hold a 2-3 watt motor. We use it on full "P" tunnels.

    Mic View attachment 92673 DSCN3171.JPG View attachment 92670
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2018
  4. Dec 28, 2018 #4

    RonShaw

    RonShaw

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    Mark,

    You are getting a lot of good info above. I received one of the first kits Joe produced. The one change that I made to my setup that made 1000% difference in the performance, handling, and speed, was to eliminate the standard stock OS skeg (yes cut it off flush with the prop shaft bullet), and add an offset keg like we used to run on the old Sundowner OB hydros in the day. This one change made my personal JAE OB Hydro a winner in all of the races it entered the last 4 years, including the first one. Its a fun boat to drive and race.
     
  5. Dec 28, 2018 #5

    MarkF

    MarkF

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    Me and another friend both built this boat. He set his up with a spec motor and I went full P. He runs an OS outboard and I run an old K&B. He got his running first and had problems getting it to run right. My friend is Greg Schweers and he has over built many  tunnels over the last 25 years and knows how to set up an outboard boat.

    I built mine and I had problems too. It would pull one way at slow speed and the opposite at full speed. I had to hold a bunch of rudder just to go strait. I realize now my prop choice wasn't helping me any.  Another friend mentioned adding a rudder and I might try that. Well long story short, Gregg tried his without the ski and it ran better. I tried the same and found mine did too. Next was props. I was looking for speed so I tried a 1717. Boat pulled and didn't behave very well. I next tried a 1615 3 chopper and this made the boat very happy. The boat leaps out of the hole and tracks very well. Folks on shore swear it's faster in the turns than going strait. I see no need for the ski at this point. The boat works well. I think adding the rudder will probably improve things. You guys are running nitro motors which are a different animal and maybe you need the ski to hold the boat up. We are going out again Sunday and I will try to get a video so you all can see. 

    Mark
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2018
  6. Dec 29, 2018 #6

    HTV Boats

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    I understand that a nitro rigger benefits from the ski for launching. That said you can get away without the ski on FE due to instant torque. Ron has experience with FE tunnels and I have FE mono's, cats, tunnels, plus 4 riggers "P spec, P and Q. One other thing the ski does is create an even waterline to the prop which to me is more important. I have to friends running P spec outboard JAE's that handle well with OS lowers. I have run the Hyperformance lower on tunnels and the front that mimics a full size speedmaster is a nightmare to trim. Just trying to share our knowledge and Rod has forgot more than the rest of us know.

    Mic
     
  7. Dec 29, 2018 #7

    MarkF

    MarkF

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    Thanks to everyone for all your replies. I talked to Rod on the phone tonight and had a good conversation. Thanks for taking the time sir. 

    I will make some changes to the boat and see how things work out.  
     
  8. Dec 29, 2018 #8

    MarkF

    MarkF

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    OK I did the rudder mod. I used an old knife blade I had in my box. Anyone see anything wrong with how this came out? The blade is an inch below the prop. Hard to tell from the pics.

    Mark

    OB1.jpg

    OB2.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2018
  9. Dec 30, 2018 #9

    Geraghty

    Geraghty

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    I just read your latest IW post....After our conversation I was amazed that all you got out of it was the rudder....

    The rudder will help with fine tuning but you are not addressing your basic problem ......That hyperformance bullet extending out in front of the lower end

    and removal of the ski is killing your setup....

    I sent you a very detailed email at 3AM this morning..... Unless you are willing to get rid of that lower and reinstall the ski I am

    afraid you are destined to be unhappy with your JAE outboard.....  As long as you are dragging that lower bullet mess through the water

    and attempting to hold the rear of the boat up with the prop you are effectively chasing your tail and neutering the JAE's design....

    You may be able to cut off the front of the hyperformance lower to a K&B/O.S. lead in contour and depth and accomplish what you need to do to run the ski....

    My suggestion is get your hands on a K&B 3.5 lower , install a side mounted rudder , re-install the ski and mount and setup the outboard like shown in the instruction manual....

    There are photos on page 34 of the manual showing what you need to do......   http://www.zippkits.com/21obman.pdf

    IF you do this and the boat still pulls left or right look at the turn fin adjustment and then the width/depth of the rudder "THE SKI IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM"....

    Everything touching or below the water is what counts for a happy boat.....Everything above is mostly eye candy.....

    Maybe somebody else has a better way to convince you what you need to do to take advantage of the JAE's design....I don't know what else to do....

    I offered access to a K&B lower in my detailed email and that offer is still in play..... just let me know what you would like to do.....

    With the power you have available that boat should be all over 80 MPH.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2018
  10. Dec 31, 2018 #10

    MarkF

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    I couldn't run the boat because of an esc issue. I did clean up my lower and will try a K&B from Rod when I get it. 

    OB3.JPG
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2018
  11. Dec 31, 2018 #11

    bob miller

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    why did you mount the turn fin on the left side ?  thanks.....bob
     
  12. Jan 1, 2019 #12

    MarkF

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    Because that is where HTV boats mounted his in the pics he posted. 
     
  13. Jan 1, 2019 #13

    Geraghty

    Geraghty

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    Mark,

    Is the turn fin bracket going to drag in the water?.....I can't really tell  from the photo you posted.
     
  14. Jan 1, 2019 #14

    HTV Boats

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    DSCN3103.JPG

    I could reverse my plate and run the rudder left or right. Try both for sure and see which turns better and requires less steering offset to go straight. Nice job on the mod to the front of the Hyperformnace. Let us know how that works out.

    Mic
     
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  15. Jan 1, 2019 #15

    MarkF

    MarkF

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    My bracket is up higher than the ski is so should be ok. I can take a little more off the bracket though and get it a little higher up. I'm not going to put to much more effort into my lower since Rod is going to make me a K&B setup.  All this outboard stuff is making me want to get another tunnel. My last one was a Bandit tunnel and ran off of 12 nicads and an Aveox motor.  

    Mark
     
  16. Jan 8, 2019 #16

    RonShaw

    RonShaw

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    Mark,

    You definitely need to get that bracket up at least 1/2" above the bottom of the ski to keep it from affecting any performance on how it runs. Look at Mic's. Thats the idea. I have never run it on the port side like you and Mic. Mine has always been on the starboard side (right). Be ready to turn your steering rates WAY down as it will not take much to zip (no pun intended..;)) it right through the corners once you get it done. keep us updated.
     
  17. Jan 8, 2019 #17

    MarkF

    MarkF

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    I know the bracket looks low but it's not. I took another 3/16 off the bracket but it was always above the ski. I also took off a good  1/8 off the bottom of the lower unit when I cut it down to get rid of the front bullet. It's as low as it will go and I couldn't go this low before (it hit the set up board)  I cut the bottom of the lower off. So it looks a little high in the pic. 

    Rigger 6.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 8, 2019
  18. Jan 10, 2019 #18

    Geraghty

    Geraghty

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    A long as the bullet is resting dead on the ski bottom sheeting you should be good to go.....
     
  19. Jan 10, 2019 #19

    tnrcboatracer

    tnrcboatracer

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    Not sure if it matters, but I didn't see a cavitation plate on Mic's setup.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
     
  20. Jan 10, 2019 #20

    HTV Boats

    HTV Boats

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    You are correct, cavitation plates serve no function, other than holding your water pickup or a place to mount a tune pipe bracket.

    Mic
     

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