To all IMPBA Outboard Racers.

[Carl Van Houten]

I would like to think that people can see past this negativity and understand that we have a chance to make a difference here. We run Nitro and Gas in our club. If one day we woke up and there was only one gas engine being manufactured and it was five times more expensive as it was when it first came out, let's see that would put most of them right at or over $1,000.00 each I wonder if the people left running them would be receptive to an idea that stood the chance of saving their sport? I know modelers around here and the answer would be absolutely YES.

 

[Randy Rapedius]

Sorry Carl. You call it negativity, I call it reality. Every year racers are switching from Nitro racing into Gas and FE. Regardless of the reasons, it’s reality not negativity. Doing whatever you can to save Nitro Tunnel in your area is admirable. Saving it nationally is another thing. I believe that ship has sailed.

 

[SayMikey]

Wont hurt to propose a change and let the masses vote.

 

[Alan Elzer]

I agree with Mike !!!

 

[bermudadude]

ok im confused.
or possibly EVERYBODY has caught the "gas-guy" disease. no disrespect to gas guys but ,,,u know.

my main question - is a sport or super sport an entry level class? if so then great,,the more ideas to make things easily and cheaply available is great .
if not ,,,and here is where ill prob get jumped --what ......who is spending close to $1000 to then stick a stock factory muffler on an engine to restrict it??? [refering to the pretty looking nova setup]
other questions.
after the initial expense of getting into rc and getting into boats,,whats the issue with another few bucks for a pipe? is this an issue? i would think sourcing obsolete k&b parts and paying 3-4times what the original cost was for a near broken YES they are all used and most k&b stuff didnt last long anyways.
also who is entering these "sport" classes? new comers who need it or old farts like me that see an opportunity for an easy win ?
i get it -attract the new guys then out drive em.
i actually think this is kind os sad if that how u want a win. with my experience id rather win against a guy i know has MORE experience. not saying this is what is happening im ASKING . because i see the same types of threads on jims about sport gas classes .

i prefer it simple ---theres is a displacement limit --thats it .
you source the engine or parts to make 1,,u mod it or NOT ,,u practice and tune ur boat,,,u learn to race and figure out strategy ..
am i the crazy one? please advise

o yea i actually think the car engine on the back is a great idea

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Sorry Carl. You call it negativity, I call it reality. Every year racers are switching from Nitro racing into Gas and FE. Regardless of the reasons, it’s reality not negativity. Doing whatever you can to save Nitro Tunnel in your area is admirable. Saving it nationally is another thing. I believe that ship has sailed.

Randy I don't know why you are so determined to return to this post and spread your negativity time and time again. You don't even run nitro or outboards. This thread is for OUTBOARD NITRO. Can't you find something better to do? I have already reached the people that I intended to through this site and they are all in favor of this besides you and one other so this is more than likely going to pass so we will see if your gloom and doom predictions are right. Cheer up Randy!!!

 

[Randy Rapedius]

Carl. Yet once again. REALITY, not negativity. You can try and spin it anyway you want.

Sorry, I didn’t realize I couldn’t post about nitro outboards because I no longer race that class. I guess being a past National Champion in a Nitro OB class, multiple Gas Nats Champion, current District Director means nothing? I’m simply doom and gloom. Right! Lol. Maybe the next time one of the nitro dinosaurs comments on a Gas post I should remind them they are Nitro. (sarcasm).

Make a proposal, hey … I’ll even vote for it. Like Mike S said, “It can’t hurt”. Fast forward a few years when nitro numbers are even further down I’ll be sure to say “I told you so”. Toy boats, Carl … toy boats. I’m done with this issue. You can have the last word as it’s obvious you are one of those who needs to.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

 

[Grimracer]

Randy I don't know why you are so determined to return to this post and spread your negativity time and time again. You don't even run nitro or outboards. This thread is for OUTBOARD NITRO. Can't you find something better to do? I have already reached the people that I intended to through this site and they are all in favor of this besides you and one other so this is more than likely going to pass so we will see if your gloom and doom predictions are right. Cheer up Randy!!!

O boy...

 

[Mark Anderson]

NAMBA stock and IMPBA Sport tunnel are not entry level classes, they are simply classes with limited engines. Not sure why someone always has to say that they are for beginners. They are very challenging with close racing. With the current OS engine is there really a need for stock/limited and mod classes. The O.S in stock form is a formidable opponent for piped motors. With its easy tuning and consistent high performance, they do very well against piped motors. We don't need more classes to save nitro tunnel racing, we need less to boost numbers. Run the combination that works best for you. I know some will scream at that idea.

 

[Brandon Atwell]

I do agree Stock/ Sport makes for close racing, but also believe that is exactly what makes it more of an entry way class. I have won district championships 2 years now with my stock O.S. Powered Lynx against the Piped B tunnel class and have come in Second or lower those same years in the Sport B class. I’ve raced for 12 years now and have lost that district championship to old K&B’s, kids under 12 years old, and racers with less than a few years experience.

The benefit to having both the Sport B class (or Carl’s potential updated class) and modified B is it gives racers multiple avenues to race with one hull. You can argue open tunnel serves that purpose, but how can I reasonably tell someone their 27 inch hull is going to be enjoyable to compete with against 50 plus inch gas tunnels? Or nationals events may or may not offer it so they can travel hours away to run 4 times all weekend?

Updated rules would allow someone someone to purchase cheaper units than O.S. (TFL, Lawless, old K&B’s, DIY projects), develop a more affordable power head option and still keep that close range of speed amongst one another.
I don’t doubt that some guys will be showing up with some expensive setups should this pass, but realistically that’s been the norm in B modified tunnel and I have still seen guys like Mark, Eric, Kevin Lee, Mike Talley and many others pull out that old OS XM and put them to shame.

The tunnel classes realistically had NO imminent threat until this pandemic. We had a plethora of powerheads. Now this is the world we live in and we don’t simply roll over and let it die a slow death. What it takes moving forward however is innovation, and assistance from our governing body and suppliers. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but model boat racing as a whole is in danger if our organizations don’t become much more active in selling themselves on social media, developing appropriate avenues for potential racers to reach vendors and stepping forward to new ideas.
Me and my brother offered to help out vendors on here with developing websites and sales avenues to reach wider audiences previously and exactly 0 reached out. You all are what sustain and push the hobby forward, let’s keep it moving.

 

[Grimracer]

Sport tunnel was never intended to be a beginners class.. Has it become one.. no... the type of boat might make a good beginners boat but the sport racing class... not so much.

It was a bragging class for B Tunnel.. no more.. no less.

Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

The reason I posted this on IW was to get the word out about what our current outboard situation really is at this time and what we can and need to put into place now so that when the time comes, and it will, we can continue right on racing with no issues.

I don't post on IW much anymore but I made an exception with this subject so that I could reach as many racers who stay up to date with what is happening with outboards by coming to sites like this. I knew there would be opposition to this simply because most people just don't like change of any kind. I get that. That was expected right from the start.

One thing that I would like to make clear before I head out is, that if you currently have an outboard that qualifies to run in the IMPBA Sport Outboard Tunnel Class, including a 3.5cc K&B with a compliant canister, a Thunder Tiger 3.5cc Outboard with a compliant exhaust outlet, an O/S with a compliant muffler you will still be able to race your outboard in the Super Sport Class. All of the configurations mentioned will be able to compete together with the added Super Sport Outboard and all will be regulated by the muffler.

This is not replacing the sport class but will be allowing an additional muffled outboard configuration to join the class so that in the event there are no more off the shelf outboard engines available, we can carry on racing with out any changes needed.

If you have any questions just contact me and I will be glad to talk with you!

[email protected]
Take Care,
-Carl

 

[Grimracer]

Just to keep it all straight.. maybe what carl is proposing is a good idea.. lets make sure we have a clear understanding.

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs B Tunnel class.

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs D Tunnel class.

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs E Tunnel class.

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs F Tunnel class.



The intent of the class is to open up new opportunity’s to sustain or grow the hobby of RC Tunnel Boat racing. This is driven from the COST associated with current motors available or lack of as well as a pre-emptive strike regarding the current declining state of Nitro Tunnel boat racing.

(this would be a good place to qualify the above “Assumed” intent)



This idea would eliminate from the IMPBA the class now called “B Sport Tunnel”

It would be replaced by a class called “B Super Sport Tunnel”



In that one could run any displacement correct nitro engine



The restrictions would be:

Size of the exhaust “hole”. (do we know what size is?)

The use of tuned Pipes



No restrictions on:

Carburation (can be any form of intake)

Carburation intake size (no restrictions)

Lower Unit make or makeup (no restrictions)

Muffler (qualified as NOT TUNED) or muffler make up (no restrictions)



Then.. added to the IMPBA roster would be:

D Super Sport Tunnel

E Super Sport Tunnel

F Super Sport Tunnel

Anything else I might be missing or need to be added?

Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Just to keep it all straight.. maybe what carl is proposing is a good idea.. lets make sure we have a clear understanding. Okay Let's go

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs B Tunnel class. True

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs D Tunnel class. True

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs E Tunnel class. True

This idea has ZERO bearing on the IMPBAs F Tunnel class. True


The intent of the class is to open up new opportunity’s to sustain or grow the hobby of RC Tunnel Boat racing. This is driven from the COST associated with current motors available or lack of as well as a pre-emptive strike regarding the current declining state of Nitro Tunnel boat racing. True (Declining in some places)

(this would be a good place to qualify the above “Assumed” intent) Okay, see next

General: The intent of the Super Sport Outboard Tunnel Class is to broaden the racers selection of power heads and lower units through regulating the dimensions of the mufflers and their exhaust outlets.

This idea would eliminate from the IMPBA the class now called “B Sport Tunnel” See Next

It would be replaced by a class called “B Super Sport ” Renamed and with different restrictions but True. A legal Sport Outboard that you have today such as an out of the box O/S outboard, qualifies to race in the Super Sport Class just as it is with no changes to it because it is a muffled engine who's exhaust system meets the qualifications of what is described as a muffler in the Super Sport Class.

In that one could run any displacement correct nitro engine True

The restrictions would be:

Size of the exhaust “hole Diameter”. (do we know what size is?) Yes, these diameters are taken from what already exist from K&B, O/S and Thunder Tiger.

The use of tuned Pipes No Tuned Pipes Allowed in the super Sport Class. Mufflers are more tightly regulated than the existing Sport Class.

No restrictions on: ----

Carburation (can be any form of intake) True

Carburation intake size (no restrictions) True

Lower Unit make or makeup (no restrictions) True

Muffler (qualified as NOT TUNED) Correct or muffler make up (no restrictions) Muffers are restricted to max length, diameter & exhaust outlet diameter(s)

Then.. added to the IMPBA roster would be: Drum Roll inserted here....

B Sport Tunnel name changed to "Super Sport Outboard Tunnel"

D Super Sport Tunnel Added to Super Sport

E Super Sport Tunnel Added to Super Sport

F Super Sport Tunnel <---- No "F"

Anything else I might be missing or need to be added? Yes, I would like a cold beer and a pizza after I have done all this work for you...LOL

Grim

 

[Marty Slater]

a KB 8907 will have to have a canister muffler on it ?
a KB will have run against any hot rod motor that comes along ?

 

[Joey Jones]

I don't have a lot of experience, but Brandon's post above paints a pretty good picture. For me, anyway.

I’ve raced for 12 years now and have lost that district championship to old K&B’s, kids under 12 years old, and racers with less than a few years experience.

Maybe B Sport is in the sweet spot of driver + preparation + luck = success. Arguably all classes are, but the Atwells obviously have the driver experience/talent and prep down. That last term of the equation is up for grabs to every racer. I think that's a pretty dang good equivalency. Of course, time will tell, and I understand where you're coming from. It's a good question, and a good discussion. But if we could extend what Brandon has described to the other classes of Tunnel boats...oh man. That is gonna be worth it and I want in on that. Adding to that, now B sport(proposed B SuperSport) will entertain a more diverse group of power and approaches to the class. I can see, and share, the excitement in that.

-Joey

Edit: Removed my references to B Tunnel, as they are piped/mod and not relevant to the proposed SuperSport/Muffled class.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

a KB 8907 will have to have a canister muffler on it ? The lower unit with the cast-in muffler is legal to run in the Super Sport Class as long as the exhaust outlets conform to the max diameter allowed.
a KB will have run against any hot rod motor that comes along ? All engines will require a muffler in this class. When you put a canister muffler on a so called "hot motor" it levels the performance and they will be more competitive than entering lets say, a 40 hydro and having to compete with the hottest tuned pipe and engine mankind can conjure up or afford. The Super Sport Class will be a driver /setup class and is why it is such a fun class.

 

[Grimracer]

I read this as.. does an 8907 HAVE to have a canister muffler on it?


And then.. if I might ask.. where are the rules (are they still coming) regarding muffler size limits.

What one of the three tightly regulated mufflers mentioned... has the legal allowable hole size? OS, K+B or TT?

Simple questions..

Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

I read this as.. does an 8907 HAVE to have a canister muffler on it? It can run the original K&B "Cast-In" Muffler type lower unit or a canister so the answer would be either one.

And then.. if I might ask.. where are the rules (are they still coming) regarding muffler size limits. The Proposed Draft will be made public soon. It has been mulled over and hashed out so that the final version will be as simple and to the point as possible but yet cover everything. It's really not confusing or complicated at all.

What one of the three tightly regulated mufflers mentioned... has the legal allowable hole size? OS, K+B or TT?
All mufflers will have a legal allowable hole diameter stated.

Simple questions.. and simple answers.

Grim