To all IMPBA Outboard Racers.

[HTV Boats]

Here is a thought to add numbers for clubs that want to keep tunnels alive. Run 21 & 45 mod classes with FE tunnels to build numbers. Allow a P/L (36X60 motor - 4S) in 21 mod, and a Q/L (40X74 motor - 6S) in .45 mod. The FE's will compensate for less top end with acceleration.

Our local guys are using a $50 Flycolor ESC on 6S with an $80 Leopard motor on 45 size hulls with speeds in the 50's. Your old hull with a K&B lower collecting dust can compete for under a $200 conversion. add another $200 for batts and a charger that will outlast a case of fuel ($200) and ten glow plugs. ($100)
This is an option for some and equipment available now for new racers.
Mic

 

[Paul Renna]

Hull Manufacturers
Carl Van Houten- Lynx .21, Taboo .21
Kris Flynn- Dragon .21- .45 (unofficially .67, Shane’s toy)
Gabe Clegg- LeeCraft .45
PTI- honestly unsure of what sizes you produce Paul.
Bill Britton

As of now there is
3 .21 engines manufacturers. O.S., OPS (available but where?), and BP (unavailable in the states, unknown and unproven). I believe gabe has some Nova stock left over but that will last only so long.

.

Thanks Brandon
Looks like I need to work on my marketing, its just that lower unit has taken SO much time its been a challenge

We make the
PX-300 30.0" P-Limited Kit
NX-300 30.0 3.5 Nitro Tunnel
PX-335 33.5" Full P FE Tunnel
NX-365 36.5" 7.5 Nitro Tunnel
PX-365 36.5" Q FE Tunnel STILL IN DEVELOPMENT
NX-400 40.0" .67 Nitro Tunnel
PX-400 40.0" Q FE Tunnel

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Looks like we have plenty of hulls, lower units and FE motors to choose from so the electric guys are all set. It looks as if racers do want to expand the muffled classes to include the Super Sport engines. I will work on a proposal to send to the district director.

 

[Barrie Lever]

OPS (available but where?),

Billy Hughes, he is a CL speed flyer.
[email protected]

 

[LohringMiller]

I've been playing with 3D printed lower units. The latest design works well with P limited motors. The metal tube and fin was also 3D printed by Shapeways for $46. I think the metal part might need a redesign for nitro engines. It certainly doesn't need to be as heavy as it turned out. I used PLA, but Prusa carbon filled PC might be a material that's more suitable. So far the big issue is making the fin thin and strong with threads to hold the prop adapter. Otherwise the plastic seems to hold up well.

Lohring Miller

 

[jaxracer]

So not to hi-jack Carl’s thread here, but while we’re on the subject of lower units, with the advent of wire drives for inboards, they have taken speeds to a whole new level due to the decreased friction of not having a traditional shaft bind/rub in brass or Teflon tubing. I’ve been thinking of a way to incorporate this thought process into an outboard lower unit and hope that someone will take this idea and run with it or explain to me why it will not work as I do not come from a machining background.

The general idea is as follows, a traditionally designed outboard unit, but instead of a flex cable, using a solid carbon fiber or steel square shaft that connects to two universal joints at either end, one to the outboard powerhead and one to the prop shaft. The spacing around the shaft would be open in a friction free setting and the universal joints would be pressed and housed in ceramic bearings at both ends. I think a design like this would tremendously reduce drag and result in even faster competition for both electric and nitro alike. Any input or suggestion here for how something like this could be manufactured is definitely welcomed.

 

[jydracing]

Hi all been watching this with great interest. Instead of changing the Stock classes why not get the super stock classes added. That way the true stock classes stay true stock.
The super stock classes (3.5, 7.5, 67) with any engine and lower unit muffler and carb. All that would need to be the same is carb bore and exhaust outlet sizes. This way a stock boat could run with the super stock class. This way a racer would get a little more runtime during a race.

the electric boats could run with the super stocks and be limited by esc, motor, and battery to run with the different engine sizes

 

[Geraghty]

Hi all been watching this with great interest. Instead of changing the Stock classes why not get the super stock classes added. That way the true stock classes stay true stock.
The super stock classes (3.5, 7.5, 67) with any engine and lower unit muffler and carb. All that would need to be the same is carb bore and exhaust outlet sizes. This way a stock boat could run with the super stock class. This way a racer would get a little more runtime during a race.

the electric boats could run with the super stocks and be limited by esc, motor, and battery to run with the different engine sizes

Where are you going to get the motors for the "stock" classes????

 

[jydracing]

What I was trying to say is not to take the stock class away from the ones that has them. Some clubs have enough to run the class so why would you want to take that away. As we all know that some one starting in stock class usually winds up with a mod boat or 2.

As it stands for now we have stock classes with only 1 class were-a person can get a engine with a lower and race with it. So if you do away with the stock classes why would a company or a mom and pop business want to make a engine with a lower when there is no class for it. I just think it would be better to leave doors open to see who might come in in stead of shutting it and keeping everyone out

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Jimmy,
What is being done right now is exactly what you have said. The engines are there we just have to adjust the rules to allow them to run. There will be nothing stopping an off the shelf O/S outboard with a Super Sport outboard. If you want to talk about this just call me. I have been talking about it for days now. Try not to say the word "Stock" that will derail the thread. There is no such thing as stock outboards in the IMPBA.

 

[Grimracer]

Jimmy has it right.. if its still going.. why change it.. when it fails then axe it.


Grim

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Grim, What you don't seem to understand is that the Super Sport Class is not eliminating the "Sport" engines. They will be able to run in Super Sport too. This is more of a outboard configuration change than what you must be thinking. The Super Sport Class that has been raced for about 10 years as a specialty class here in the South East has allowed sport engines to race together with super sport engines and there is very little if any difference in performance. Sometimes the Sport engine wins and others the Super Sport engine will win. It very competitive and fun to watch even if you are not racing because it is close racing and driving and setup is key.

 

[Carl Van Houten]

when it fails then axe it.

I don't really like this comment...we are not going to just "axe it". There are a lot of outboard guys who race nothing but outboards. I am one of those people.

 

[Grimracer]

If NO BOATS SHOW UP.. what is it............................................................

 

[Grimracer]

Another thing to ponder.. the mod class has and is hard to fill at every race we attend. The boats setups you are proposing can slip right into that class.. (No rule changes). Why in the world would we not prove their intent in that class.

If,,,if.. they are quick AND they are cheaper than we all win. MAYBE they become the new B Mod class setup..

BUT.. I suspect this is the real deal. If one has to find a power head there, and a PTO here, and a crank over yonder.. AND they (thank goodness) at this time we can simply call Fred get a very high quality lower with one phone call!

does your gut REALY tell you this will boost numbers in Nitro outboard racing?

We/I DO see the issue. we need more racers. lower costs.. its all understandable. (Make it harder and more confusing to the new (heck any) racer? I for one don't see how this idea fixes anything.

Send it in... you know my Vote.

also... I will support whatever the body votes on. Its just the right thing to do.

Grim

 

[jaxracer]

Just curious, taking a poll from everybody here, how are tunnel class turnouts looking across the country? In IMPBA District 13, our first Grand Prix race in SOWEGA in February is sitting at 56 drivers, 215 boats. Of those, tunnel classes are as follows:

Sport B: 6 entries
B Tunnel: 6 entries
D Tunnel: 7 entries
Open Tunnel: 12 entries
Gas Tunnel: 9 entries
P Tunnel: 4 entries

How does everybody else’s local race entries look?

 

[Carl Van Houten]

My role here is to be a voice for the people who run outboards in the IMPBA.

As you already know the days of the off the shelf complete RTR outboard are teeter tottering on gone right now. I have asked everyone who has an idea or suggestion about this to contact me. The people who have already done that have had some good ideas and surprisingly so far nobody opposed the core proposal ideas.

If voted in by the members (hopefully only the people who actually run outboards will vote on this) the IMPBA Sport Outboard Tunnel class will be joined by Super Sport outboards. What is a Super Sport Outboard?

A Super Sport Outboard is an outboard who's performance is regulated by the carburetor bore diameter and the muffler exhaust outlet diameter. Sound familiar? Well, that is what has leveled the playing field for the sport tunnel class from day one.

Lets remember that our engines never were "out of the box stock engines". From day one in the IMPBA you had the liberty to change things inside your Sport engine as long as it was not changed on the outside you were good to go. Later Bob Kensil made a proposal to Section B, 4-F where you could then not only change things on the inside but then (and to this day) you can change the outside color/finish as well.

Now, you buy this engine and you prepare it to compete in the IMPBA Sport Tunnel Class, as the rules state you can change parts on the inside and you can change the outside appearance as long as you maintained the carb bore diameter and exhaust outlets you are good to go race it.

Okay now, with the Super Sport Outboard you can that too. You have to maintain a carb bore diameter and exhaust outlet diameter. You can change anything between these two. Sound somewhat familiar? The class performance is regulated using the carb and exhaust outlets but with the Super Sport Class, you can run any power head you want it just has to meet the Carb and Exhaust outlet limits. These engines and the RTR Sport Outboard engine can run together and why not?

You may ask well what about mufflers?
For Super Sport you can use the K&B Lower unit with the cast-in muffler, Class matched K&B bolt on canister mufflers or the Long and or short O/S bolt on muffler. All with Carb and exhaust outlet limits,

With the limitations going in and out of the engine, the performance is going to be close to each other and you would stand a much better chance of being competitive in this class than you would in lets say B or D Hydro where you can do anything known to man to them and they FLY these days! Try being competitive in one of those classes... you had better know somebody that can help you.

I will check with Nick (D-5 Director & Rick D-5 Tech) and as soon as they give the go ahead I will post the proposal on here for everyone to see. Remember this is just a written suggestion for you. I am glad to see that we can finally talk about rules on here without it getting out of hand.

-Carl

 

[LohringMiller]

Our club has been running all the small tunnels together for years. Stock and mod 3.5s run with P limited electric tunnels. Surprisingly, the speeds are similar and it comes down to driving and preparation more than pure speed. We would let a 7.5 tunnel join the fun as well if anyone wants to bring one out.

Lohring Miller

 

[jydracing]

Ok all my bad. Had a case of the brain fog. Carl you are right. Impba does not have a stock class. It has a B sport tunnel which uses carb bore and exhaust bore to regulate them. Anything internal is fair game except bore and stroke. A true stock class is take it out of the box and run. No touching anything.

Ok Mike I see your point maybe OS might see this as a reason to quit the 3.5 outboard production. Hopefully not. But eather way os is going to do what they want.

Now with that said this is what I have seen. As the tunnel classes have been shrinking something needs to be done. Just like when the gas tunnels started showing up there were not enough to make a class and the same with the 11cc tunnels so everyone started running open tunnel now they could run even with the electrics. I would rather run my 11 tunnel against others but if this is what it takes to be able to keep racing it so be it. The rules could be changed at any time if need be.

It is bad to tell a racer that there were not enough boats to make the class and he can not race. Most boaters may play on the weekends but they do like to race and it is a let down when they can’t and a lot of them get out of the hobby. Something needs to be done and very soon.

now what I do not understand is over the years there were plenty ob engines out there.We had Rossi, novarossi, cmb, Mac, why did none of them ever make a lower unit for the engines maybe they knew something we don’t

 

[Carl Van Houten]

Jimmy,
We should have made a change way before this point but we just have to do what we can from here. Numbers can change. I beat the drum for the LSG Gas O/B Tunnels along with few others when nobody saw any need to have the class and last year there were 12 that showed up at a race! Just because participation in dropping doesn't mean it will stay down.