Ripple voltage???

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Don Ferrette

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Since we've just seen the loss of Castle marine ESCs I thought it important to bring this thread to the front again so we can talk more about protecting our gear. After the chatter here on I/W, OSE and "through the grapevine" it's become clear that Castle dumping the marine ESCs is a money move, period. The "official" story of not being able to get the parts for the marine versions is hoooey as they're basically the same inside as the air controllers BUT can you really blame them? They were having far more marine ESCs come back and I can't help but think that a majority of that might have been preventable by the end user. I think Terry on OSE summed it up fairly well-

"They don't research the best way to get where they want to be. They slap it together, put a 465 prop on, bake it, and then want it warrantied."

Granted supposedly Castle admitted they didn't add more caps because the "look" was unappealing but perhaps if they approached it like ETTI does where they supplied the extra caps on the bigger ESCs and basically told you to add them then things might have been different. Even Matthias recommended extra caps on his Schulze ESCs and we all know how good those controllers were. The old Schulze website is still up including instructions about adding extra caps (click on important tips left column)- http://www.matthias-schulze-elektronik.com/old_schulze_gmbh_homepage/index_uk.htm

So where do we go from here? Yeah the loss of Castle marine ESCs leaves a void but it's not difficult to convert the air ESCs to water cooling however doing so instantly kills any warranty so we need to be proactive in taking steps to help protect the ESCs and I think the extra cap banks is a good starting point. And thanks Tyler for posting the Rubycon .pdf files, LOTS of good info there and the RX30s look hard to beat.
 
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Jim Caldwell

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I have never owned a Castle always Schultz and 4 years ago I switched to Swordfish with a brief fling with 400 amp Fighter Cat ( at bottom of lake with my 8s 2p rigger after 8 races).

I watched 3 Castle's burn up on plug in for very experienced racers in Mich. 2005 although out of 400 boats maybe that's not so bad unless it's yours.

I have never burned a controller up in over 20 years of racing.

8 ga. wire, 8mm bullets, 6 D2pac fet's per phase in the controller, additional cap bank and 2P batt's on anything over 100 amps.

Start small on prop and get an Eagletree data logger so you know what is actually happening on the water, otherwise you are playing Russian roulette and it will blow.

Still running my original 120 amp and 200 amp Swordfish's. The 300 amp Swordfish has been fine so far.

Most important!!! Read and follow the directions.
 
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gil sonsino

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My Ice 240 after a year (it's true that it went to factory to change defective caps after two run's) powering some saw riggers is working perfectly.As pointed out by Jim be conservative and you won't be disappointed with your esc .GILL
 
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RaceMechaniX

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You can go overboard. An additional 2000-4000uF is usually sufficient. This is typically double what most ESC's have as stock. Using a soft start resistor to slowly charge the caps is key to keeping your connectors from vaporizing during connection.

TG
 

jayt

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Castle ICE 200 and 240 controllers have four caps with a total of 2480 mFd capacity. I added 2000 more and ripple is very low. Peaks are under 6 percent of pack voltage but constant ripple is under 0.4 volts on a 4S pack. Works great.

.
 
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Samuel Hagan JR

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Okay. I eventually want to get a Q Sport built but I'm still learning. It's too expensive to screw up the first time.
 

Michael Caruso

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I have never owned a Castle always Schultz and 4 years ago I switched to Swordfish with a brief fling with 400 amp Fighter Cat ( at bottom of lake with my 8s 2p rigger after 8 races).

I watched 3 Castle's burn up on plug in for very experienced racers in Mich. 2005 although out of 400 boats maybe that's not so bad unless it's yours.

I have never burned a controller up in over 20 years of racing.

8 ga. wire, 8mm bullets, 6 D2pac fet's per phase in the controller, additional cap bank and 2P batt's on anything over 100 amps.

Start small on prop and get an Eagletree data logger so you know what is actually happening on the water, otherwise you are playing Russian roulette and it will blow.

Still running my original 120 amp and 200 amp Swordfish's. The 300 amp Swordfish has been fine so far.

Most important!!! Read and follow the directions.
Hi Jim,

What about these new style ones? Seem like they might be the next thing I really don't know just asking if you do.

Mike
 

Gilbert Pun

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To share some of my experiences, I have burnt 3 Castle ESCs, 2 240s & 1 200HV, after reading from you guys about adding additional cap banks, now I add 5 50V 1000uf 130degree C capacitors to my 200 HV ESCs for 10S and 12S, nothing goes wrong and the 50"+ big FE boats are running comfortably.

Swordfish and chinese made 300amp or bigger ESCs do got burnt after running hot, several of them exploded in the boats.
 

Gilbert Pun

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Aug 30, 2008
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I saw some of the European guys are using the old Hobbywind 180A V1 ESC with additional 4-5 capacitors with no major problems, I myself add 5 capacitors of 30v 1000uf rubycon caps for 40" smaller boats.

Just got the new Version3 waterproof Hobbywind 180Amp ESCs which have 2 additional caps and will test them out before putting on any additional cap bank.
 

Jim Caldwell

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Mike,

The 120 and 200 are 4 years old and I used the Eagletree data logger then.

The Swordfish 300 has 9 runs on it and I use the Castle Cap bank on it. It has never been over 115 degrees on a 89 degree day.

As soon as I figure out how to post You Tube video here I will post a run of my 8s Sport Hydro.
 

Mike Caruso

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Sep 16, 2012
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Hi Jim,

Cool I am on the SAW path it is the only thing that holds my interest at this point in my life. Someone will get a nice stock fast Revolt and one new in the box both white. I have to post in 4 sale the items I have to move out.

8s Sport Hydro Oh My LOL

Mike
 

Jim Caldwell

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Mike, I understand I am also in the process of selling all of my F/E stuff, I have gone sailing.
 

Mark Bullard

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You can fix the ripple by adding more caps to the DC buss. Would say that you should be using the highest voltage and temp rating that you can get. You may need to set up a charge resistor for power up. Also you could use a larger controller. The ripple is caused be the switching of the IGBT's with the backemf. So on a straightaway boat the bad thing to do is get off the throttle quick. The cutting of the voltage with the build up of the motor generating voltage on slow down on a fast pass sends a lot of voltage back to the controller which gets onto the DC buss. If the voltage gets to high the caps cannot take it and the whole thing goes up in smoke.

In my business we like to see motors and drives smell like smoke because it smells like money.
 

Michael Caruso

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Nov 29, 2012
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You can fix the ripple by adding more caps to the DC buss. Would say that you should be using the highest voltage and temp rating that you can get. You may need to set up a charge resistor for power up. Also you could use a larger controller. The ripple is caused be the switching of the IGBT's with the backemf. So on a straightaway boat the bad thing to do is get off the throttle quick. The cutting of the voltage with the build up of the motor generating voltage on slow down on a fast pass sends a lot of voltage back to the controller which gets onto the DC buss. If the voltage gets to high the caps cannot take it and the whole thing goes up in smoke.

In my business we like to see motors and drives smell like smoke because it smells like money.
Hi Mark,

OK so the problem is back feed from the motor turning into a generator right? what if we add a one-way clutch/collet deal one there. Seems simple LOL just like 100 mph seems simple Ha.

Mike
 

Michael Caruso

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Nov 29, 2012
Messages
149
You can fix the ripple by adding more caps to the DC buss. Would say that you should be using the highest voltage and temp rating that you can get. You may need to set up a charge resistor for power up. Also you could use a larger controller. The ripple is caused be the switching of the IGBT's with the backemf. So on a straightaway boat the bad thing to do is get off the throttle quick. The cutting of the voltage with the build up of the motor generating voltage on slow down on a fast pass sends a lot of voltage back to the controller which gets onto the DC buss. If the voltage gets to high the caps cannot take it and the whole thing goes up in smoke.

In my business we like to see motors and drives smell like smoke because it smells like money.
Hi Mark,

OK so the problem is back feed from the motor turning into a generator right? what if we add a one-way clutch/collet deal one there. Seems simple LOL just like 100 mph seems simple Ha.

Mike
Finally, I really understand ESC exiting Smoke. Maybe it can be add under TECH TIPS to same New and Old Fast FE guy's from letter the Smoke out and burning up Dollars$$$$$$$. Enjoy Mike

motor braking ESC Damage by MGM 2.pdf
 

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BobHorowitz

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Jul 29, 2015
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I'm totally new to running fast electric boats, and I have some electrical questions. I see all this banter about using capacitors in the power systems. I have a JAE mini sprint with their 4400 kv motor. I'm using a Seaking 60 amp esc., 2s battery, 40c about 2200mah. Do I need to put caps. in this system, and if so, what should I use and how should I hook them up?

Thanks,Bob

bhorowitz@am-eagle.com
 

RaceMechaniX

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Bob,

The simple answer is no. It's fairly unlikely with a low power system in the minisprint that you need additional caps.

TG
 

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