Races and boat limits

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Mark Bullard

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Jan 26, 2004
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I see a lot of races with maximum boats limits. Atlanta, Gas Nats, and others. Heard a lot of upset racers this past weekend on the races filling up and not being able to get in. The problem with boat limits is it cut off other classes from running or getting a enough to fill the class. The two race site's both have the number of boats per class. This is where you should put your limits at. Lets talk numbers. If we have 10 classes and we set the boat limit at 30 boats for that class. That will give us 300 boats. Now if you run 5 rounds that will give us 250 heats total. That would work out to about 84 heats a day for a three day event. Now I know that not all class will have 30 boats. Some may only have 10 boats and this would turn into 2 heats per round. And by adjusting your heats by the classes that do not fill allows to cut the number of heats a day. It can also allow the bigger classes that have racers waiting and wanting to make it into the race. You can allow another 6 racers into a class and only add one heat. I was just using round numbers for the total number of boats per class. And the fewer classes you offer the more boats per class you can have. The Internats in 2017 and 2019 we had the boats per class set at 50 boats. When it was all ready to go to print we had 60 heats on Wednesday, 65 heats on Thursday, and 55 heats on Friday running 5 rounds and 13 of US 1 classes. Everyone that wanted to run got to run. No one was cut off. So set your races with a max per class and don't worry about the max numbers of boats. It will work itself out. This will make everyone happy and the CD's for sure for not having to hear the phone calls of why I can't get in.
 

Nickcagle

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Oct 4, 2018
Messages
249
Well said Mark!!!!
I see a lot of races with maximum boats limits. Atlanta, Gas Nats, and others. Heard a lot of upset racers this past weekend on the races filling up and not being able to get in. The problem with boat limits is it cut off other classes from running or getting a enough to fill the class. The two race site's both have the number of boats per class. This is where you should put your limits at. Lets talk numbers. If we have 10 classes and we set the boat limit at 30 boats for that class. That will give us 300 boats. Now if you run 5 rounds that will give us 250 heats total. That would work out to about 84 heats a day for a three day event. Now I know that not all class will have 30 boats. Some may only have 10 boats and this would turn into 2 heats per round. And by adjusting your heats by the classes that do not fill allows to cut the number of heats a day. It can also allow the bigger classes that have racers waiting and wanting to make it into the race. You can allow another 6 racers into a class and only add one heat. I was just using round numbers for the total number of boats per class. And the fewer classes you offer the more boats per class you can have. The Internats in 2017 and 2019 we had the boats per class set at 50 boats. When it was all ready to go to print we had 60 heats on Wednesday, 65 heats on Thursday, and 55 heats on Friday running 5 rounds and 13 of US 1 classes. Everyone that wanted to run got to run. No one was cut off. So set your races with a max per class and don't worry about the max numbers of boats. It will work itself out. This will make everyone happy and the CD's for sure for not having to hear the phone calls of why I can't get in.
 

Lamar_Huff

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Apr 16, 2004
Messages
979
I'm only concerned about heat count... I could really care less about the max # of boats. Due to factors beyond our control we only have 2 days to run our event. We can reasonably expect to finish around 170 heats in two days and that's where we set the cap.

If entries were consistent from one year to the next and evenly spread across all the classes you could open a race with X number of boats per class and call it a day... BUT... that NEVER happens (at least not at our event). We've had to adapt to the ebbs and flows of the racers wanting to attend our event. Some years (like this one and last year) we get a huge surge of entries right out of the gate and some years we are adding Open Mono and Open Hydro a couple of weeks before the event, just to try and pad the heat count. Some years the gas guys show up in force, other years it's the electric guys, and this year we've seen a resurgence in interest for the nitro classes. We welcome them ALL with open arms. As I have said many times... "I don't care what kind of boat it is. As long as you pay your $17.00 per boat we are happy to have you".

With a limited number of heats available we operate on a first come first served model. All classes we offer open up out of the gate with at least one heat and the remaining heats are doled out based strictly on the inflow of entries. When a class sells out another heat of that class is added and this continues until we hit the max heat cap. Supply and demand... It would not make sense for us to hold open empty spots in classes with little to no interest and have to maintain and manage long waiting lists for the classes with lots of interest.

I'm sure everyone has their own way of doing it and anytime you can sell out an event you should consider yourself lucky. I know we certainly appreciate the support for the 2020 Atlanta Spring Nationals and look forward to seeing everyone in April!

Thanks,
Lamar
 

FloridaScaleBoater

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Oct 2, 2005
Messages
6,060
Sure hate to be missing this one Lamar and the Atlanta crew.
Chris & I discussed what we wanted to do this upcoming summer and two trips to Atlanta was not in the budget.
We DO plan to be there for the July Grand Prix race though.
 

Lamar_Huff

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Apr 16, 2004
Messages
979
Completely understand Rick!

I'll see you and Chris in a few weeks in SOWEGA! Here's to hoping for a warmish and dry February weekend in the cotton field!
 

David Bryant

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Sep 7, 2011
Messages
1,843
sounds like you guys have a "good" problem- that is too many boats/entries. Seems like many other regions/districts are suffering from not enough boats/entries?
 

Don Ferrette

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So here's a twist on this subject but something that has been brought up to me numerous times.........

The 2020 IMPBA Gas Nats sold out in 55 minutes. 25% of those who signed up are not current 2020 members. Is this fair to members who are current but couldn't get in? This is by far not the first time this situation has occurred either. Again this is something that members have voiced opinions/concerns to me on so let's see what others think. I'll weigh in my take on it further in to the discussion......
 

Hydro Junkie

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Oct 2, 2006
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Okay Don, I see your point.
That said, as I type this, it's only 8 days into the year. Would it have been better to delay the start of entering until February 1st, to give those that have entered without an active membership a chance to get their dues paid first? I know my NAMBA dues haven't gone in yet as "life got in the way". I will have mine paid in the near future, just have to get the funds to do so. Is it possible others are in the same situation?
 

Mark Bullard

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Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
1,623
I'm only concerned about heat count... I could really care less about the max # of boats. Due to factors beyond our control we only have 2 days to run our event. We can reasonably expect to finish around 170 heats in two days and that's where we set the cap.

If entries were consistent from one year to the next and evenly spread across all the classes you could open a race with X number of boats per class and call it a day... BUT... that NEVER happens (at least not at our event). We've had to adapt to the ebbs and flows of the racers wanting to attend our event. Some years (like this one and last year) we get a huge surge of entries right out of the gate and some years we are adding Open Mono and Open Hydro a couple of weeks before the event, just to try and pad the heat count. Some years the gas guys show up in force, other years it's the electric guys, and this year we've seen a resurgence in interest for the nitro classes. We welcome them ALL with open arms. As I have said many times... "I don't care what kind of boat it is. As long as you pay your $17.00 per boat we are happy to have you".

With a limited number of heats available we operate on a first come first served model. All classes we offer open up out of the gate with at least one heat and the remaining heats are doled out based strictly on the inflow of entries. When a class sells out another heat of that class is added and this continues until we hit the max heat cap. Supply and demand... It would not make sense for us to hold open empty spots in classes with little to no interest and have to maintain and manage long waiting lists for the classes with lots of interest.

I'm sure everyone has their own way of doing it and anytime you can sell out an event you should consider yourself lucky. I know we certainly appreciate the support for the 2020 Atlanta Spring Nationals and look forward to seeing everyone in April!

Thanks,
Lamar

I agree with you. But your trying to run 26 classes in two days. That is 26 heats in one round right off the bat. That is 156 boats at 6 boats for just the 26 classes. So with this kind of race the racer count will be low.

Don Ferrette also made a good concern with racers being current members.
 

Daniel's Racing

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Apr 14, 2008
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1,133
So here's a twist on this subject but something that has been brought up to me numerous times.........

The 2020 IMPBA Gas Nats sold out in 55 minutes. 25% of those who signed up are not current 2020 members. Is this fair to members who are current but couldn't get in? This is by far not the first time this situation has occurred either. Again this is something that members have voiced opinions/concerns to me on so let's see what others think. I'll weigh in my take on it further in to the discussion......
Don't see the point/correlation. Everybody had similar opportunity. You snooze you loose.
So lets just say everybody was a paid 2020 member(like say if that was the rule). Would it have been any easier for anyone to get signed up in the first 55 minutes. Doesn't change anything. If anything it could possibly make the matter even worse.

Members should know when the time to sign up is. If the others were members too surely they will be there ready to sign up when the time opens up.

What is the answer ?
 
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dr gary turner

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Dec 25, 2004
Messages
2,147
The answer: set the number of boats per class not total number of total boats.

This methodology has been proven to work

May need to limit the number of boats per contestant

In the early years of the IMPBA Internats we were limited to just 2 boats.

When it is a race like Spring Nats with electric gas and nitro it maybe best to limit the number of classes

I think it was stated that Atlanta had 26 classes for a 2 day race. Is that too many?
I don’t know.

Most folks can’t just sit ready to jump when registration opens.

Again limiting the number of boats per class has been proven to work
 

Doug Smock

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Nov 27, 2007
Messages
919
Atlanta and D13 are doing just fine fellas. The District GP series (2 day race which offers something for everyone) is 21 years old and absolutely rockin with 27 classes. 64 racers and 223 boats entered in our Feb race. Nearly matching the Spring Nats.
You'll never satisfy everyone regardless. Try to fix one issue and you'll create another one, you go ahead, we're good.
 

Brad Christy

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Jun 24, 2002
Messages
1,133
Don't see the point/correlation. Everybody had similar opportunity. You snooze you loose.
So lets just say everybody was a paid 2020 member(like say if that was the rule). Would it have been any easier for anyone to get signed up in the first 55 minutes. Doesn't change anything. If anything it could possibly make the matter even worse.

Members should know when the time to sign up is. If the others were members too surely they will be there ready to sign up when the time opens up.

What is the answer ?
Daniel,

I soundly disagree. Not everybody has the opportunity to be at their computer to sign up in that 55 minute window.

Don is correct, and there is a direct correlation to a problem. I don't know how it would be enforced, but an entry should only be valid with a current/paid sanctioning body membership number. It just isn't fair to have to sit out of a race because you had to work, while somebody who hasn't bothered to get their entry in was able to be among the first in line. I could see your argument if there were days gone by while entries were open.

Maybe accept "initial entries", with "official entries" input manually upon validation of membership....? Entries from non-current members get kicked to the back of the line....? I know it kind of defeats the purpose of automated entries, but..... Just a thought.

Thanks. Brad.
Titan Racing Components
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DPeterson

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Dec 21, 2005
Messages
544
Just something for you all to ponder. If your going to call something a "NATIONALS", the race should be open to all entrants or qualifying entrants. Winning a closed entrant race simply makes you a winner of that closed entrant race. Hard to imagine otherwise regardless of how good anyone is at it.
 

GraysonTaylor

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May 1, 2017
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353
As a programmer, it's shouldn't take much work to modify the registration system to only accept currently registered members.
 

Grimracer

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Dec 27, 2001
Messages
7,833
the Nationals as we know them now are ether..

The IMPBA Nationals
OR
The NAMBA Nationals

I see no harm, I see it more as a benefit to the org.. that you must be registered as a member of that org sign up for there National event... or maybe any event sanctioned by that org.

Have to think about that one..

Grim
 
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dr gary turner

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Dec 25, 2004
Messages
2,147
IMPBA INTERNATS INTERNATIONAL REGATTA

Spring Nats(Nationals) Atlanta
Fall Nats(Nationals) Charleston
Winter Hydro Nats(Nationals) Brandon

Nationals is a term that is used frequently.

I am not sure what NAMBA’s official name for their NATIONAL RACE

I think in the Rule Book there are guide lines that need to be followed in order to declare the race a National race.

Sorry a bit off original topic
 

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